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I just looked at the TULIP. all points are false 
Humans are NOT totally depraved, we are born with the capabilities to do good or do evil. Some of the people who believed this back in the days thought that even unbaptized babies went to hell. CRAZY!
People have the capability to search God, infact He tells them to repent and come to me QUITE OFTEN, and if they cant repent unless He magically grants it, whats the point? its all just one big drama show
Limited atonoment now this is probably the most absurd and wicked out of the TULIP, its amazing someone could of come up with this, 100% LIE no debate. Jesus died for ALL MEN, OF THE WHOLE WORLD. Otherwise the gospel is worthless and you cant even present it honestly to people
As for irresistable grace, numerous times we see in the bible where they "Resisted God's spirit" (acts 7:51 for example)
Perseverence of the saints, eh, this point is kind of useless for a calvinist since their salvation is pre-determined, so its kinda like an extra clause designed to discourage people that if they fail to live right even once then oops maybe im not one of the elect since i didnt persevere this time.
Humans are NOT totally depraved, we are born with the capabilities to do good or do evil. Some of the people who believed this back in the days thought that even unbaptized babies went to hell. CRAZY!
People have the capability to search God, infact He tells them to repent and come to me QUITE OFTEN, and if they cant repent unless He magically grants it, whats the point? its all just one big drama show
Limited atonoment now this is probably the most absurd and wicked out of the TULIP, its amazing someone could of come up with this, 100% LIE no debate. Jesus died for ALL MEN, OF THE WHOLE WORLD. Otherwise the gospel is worthless and you cant even present it honestly to people
As for irresistable grace, numerous times we see in the bible where they "Resisted God's spirit" (acts 7:51 for example)
Perseverence of the saints, eh, this point is kind of useless for a calvinist since their salvation is pre-determined, so its kinda like an extra clause designed to discourage people that if they fail to live right even once then oops maybe im not one of the elect since i didnt persevere this time.
P
I think you also said something like "...I was lying on the bottom of the ocean and was helpless to grab the rope in front of me...",or something to that effect.
Note the jailer said "what must I do to be saved" and the rich man refused Jesus invitation due to his wealth pulling him back,and in the parable of the wedding guests,those chosen refused His invitation.
There sure is an awful lot of "choosing" going on in those you claim have no ability to do so.
Note the jailer said "what must I do to be saved" and the rich man refused Jesus invitation due to his wealth pulling him back,and in the parable of the wedding guests,those chosen refused His invitation.
There sure is an awful lot of "choosing" going on in those you claim have no ability to do so.
I must admit reading this thread has given me a bit of a laugh.. There are a few who for months and months have debated in the strongest terms that salvation is not by works (rightly so), works will not save - it is all of the Christ...
And then turn around and say... I decide not Christ! Oh Christ may have made it possible, but "I" decide.. it is totally my work! Oh, the irony!
And then turn around and say... I decide not Christ! Oh Christ may have made it possible, but "I" decide.. it is totally my work! Oh, the irony!
Amen the only thing God asks humans to do is remain faithful. Have faith in Gods ability to do what he promised and have faith to completely surrender self to the will of God.
Humans have one choice of their own. To live in faith or not.
A true faith would not be prideful because it took repentance to completely be aware of our weak needy fallen nature.
Humans have one choice of their own. To live in faith or not.
A true faith would not be prideful because it took repentance to completely be aware of our weak needy fallen nature.
I just looked at the TULIP. all points are false
Humans are NOT totally depraved, we are born with the capabilities to do good or do evil. Some of the people who believed this back in the days thought that even unbaptized babies went to hell. CRAZY!
People have the capability to search God, infact He tells them to repent and come to me QUITE OFTEN, and if they cant repent unless He magically grants it, whats the point? its all just one big drama show
Limited atonoment now this is probably the most absurd and wicked out of the TULIP, its amazing someone could of come up with this, 100% LIE no debate. Jesus died for ALL MEN, OF THE WHOLE WORLD. Otherwise the gospel is worthless and you cant even present it honestly to people
As for irresistable grace, numerous times we see in the bible where they "Resisted God's spirit" (acts 7:51 for example)
Perseverence of the saints, eh, this point is kind of useless for a calvinist since their salvation is pre-determined, so its kinda like an extra clause designed to discourage people that if they fail to live right even once then oops maybe im not one of the elect since i didnt persevere this time.
Humans are NOT totally depraved, we are born with the capabilities to do good or do evil. Some of the people who believed this back in the days thought that even unbaptized babies went to hell. CRAZY!
People have the capability to search God, infact He tells them to repent and come to me QUITE OFTEN, and if they cant repent unless He magically grants it, whats the point? its all just one big drama show
Limited atonoment now this is probably the most absurd and wicked out of the TULIP, its amazing someone could of come up with this, 100% LIE no debate. Jesus died for ALL MEN, OF THE WHOLE WORLD. Otherwise the gospel is worthless and you cant even present it honestly to people
As for irresistable grace, numerous times we see in the bible where they "Resisted God's spirit" (acts 7:51 for example)
Perseverence of the saints, eh, this point is kind of useless for a calvinist since their salvation is pre-determined, so its kinda like an extra clause designed to discourage people that if they fail to live right even once then oops maybe im not one of the elect since i didnt persevere this time.
I think there is a Deceiver in these here posts. The Devil always plays the same game when he is up to deceiving, call those things that are obviously right, wrong...and call those things that are obviously wrong...right. It is prideful to believe that God made us with the ability to know right from wrong and to chose right from wrong. On the other hand, it is not prideful to believe that God picked you over John Smith simply because you are better...totally goofy nonsense.
Here is God commanding all men everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30-31
Can a God who choses you before hand not to be with Him then turn around and then command them to repent? This is a schizophrenic "god". This "god" violates the very character and nature of our loving Father.
The heart/mind of man cannot trust a being that is like this.
He not only commands them to repent - then He says He will judge them by Jesus Christ even though He has chosen them and forced them not to believe in the very thing that He is now going to judge them with. He would have to judge Himself and throw Himself into hell for this type of behavior and injustice.
No, the truth is that the God of all justice will do what is right and display His righteousness to all men/women/people/humans/homo sapiens.
Acts 17:30-31 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
The real God has given assurance unto all men of His righteousness in Christ by raising Jesus from the dead.
What Jesus said here is still true today. "Is anyone thirsty? Let him come to Me and drink." Anyone in the Greek means anyone...
John 7:37-39 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"
[SUP]39 [/SUP] But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Can a God who choses you before hand not to be with Him then turn around and then command them to repent? This is a schizophrenic "god". This "god" violates the very character and nature of our loving Father.
The heart/mind of man cannot trust a being that is like this.
He not only commands them to repent - then He says He will judge them by Jesus Christ even though He has chosen them and forced them not to believe in the very thing that He is now going to judge them with. He would have to judge Himself and throw Himself into hell for this type of behavior and injustice.
No, the truth is that the God of all justice will do what is right and display His righteousness to all men/women/people/humans/homo sapiens.
Acts 17:30-31 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
The real God has given assurance unto all men of His righteousness in Christ by raising Jesus from the dead.
What Jesus said here is still true today. "Is anyone thirsty? Let him come to Me and drink." Anyone in the Greek means anyone...
John 7:37-39 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"
[SUP]39 [/SUP] But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
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I thought you would understand that double election is not Biblical by you view on John 3:18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." They are condemned already because they love their evil works or sin rather then the light (Jesus), God's Law had judged them to be condemned. God did not pick them to be sinners, they sin because they are sinners. He desire, wanting, wishing, would like all men to be saved, I Timothy 2:4. He is not willing, not wanting, not desiring, would not have anyone perish, II Peter 3:9.
I Timothy 2:4 "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."
Jesus' sacrifice doesn't save all men, nor was it intended too. John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Not could be saved, but you know that.
God's desire is that all would be saved, He's not wanting any to perish. Here the same thing being said in the OT.
Ezekiel 18:23 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"
Ezekiel 33:11 "Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?"
God's always desired for men to turn from their wicked ways and turn to Him, but they couldn't/wouldn't.
Psalms 119:155 “Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek Your statutes.”
Psalms 10:3-4 For the wicked boasts of his heart’s desire; he blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.
But you know that, I used to think that I Timothy and II Peter were talking about the elect, but reading it more changed my mind. Because of the OT Scriptures. I Timothy's context is about prayer, that's why I'm not a Calvinist, because I don't believe in double election.
I Timothy 2:4 "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."
Jesus' sacrifice doesn't save all men, nor was it intended too. John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Not could be saved, but you know that.
God's desire is that all would be saved, He's not wanting any to perish. Here the same thing being said in the OT.
Ezekiel 18:23 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"
Ezekiel 33:11 "Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?"
God's always desired for men to turn from their wicked ways and turn to Him, but they couldn't/wouldn't.
Psalms 119:155 “Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek Your statutes.”
Psalms 10:3-4 For the wicked boasts of his heart’s desire; he blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.
But you know that, I used to think that I Timothy and II Peter were talking about the elect, but reading it more changed my mind. Because of the OT Scriptures. I Timothy's context is about prayer, that's why I'm not a Calvinist, because I don't believe in double election.
I'm not saying either way whether or not God is all knowing. When God walked the Earth 2,000 years ago, He removed Himself from the complete fullness of His divinity. God may have done the same thing regarding every single solitary minute aspect of the entire world. Seriously, did God know or want to know that I'd make a spelling mistake that needed correcting in this post? In my small, finite mind it would seem boring for God to know everything that will happen.
Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
God seems to know when every sparrow falls, and he seems to have all the hairs numbered on the heads of 7 billion people... doesn't sound like God misses much.
On the other hand, some have more hair than others, so maybe it balances out.
BTW, if God did NOT know about all your spelling mistake, he does NOW...
I've been telling him.
: )
Well will you look at that ^^^^. Grace included with corrective wisdom. Where's the hate bro? You must be doing something wrong. You're sharing with me in a Christian way, unlike those hateful monstrosities from philly and england. Be careful bro, you'll be called a heretic for being kind and righteous. Appreciate everything you bring to the table, my brother.
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God appreciates my sincerity. He understands my questions. His grace is sufficient.
But you on the other hand . . .
Like I said, my pinky toenail is more Christlike than that filth-ridden chamber you call a heart. Have another cigarette, Lynn; all you're doing is giving God the middle finger.
Remember, He wanted more for you than for you to smoke yourself into a cloud of demonic oblivion. But hey, there's no holding back that repugnant hatred of yours, so have at it. Puff, puff, blow.
Wallow till you choke; that'll show 'em.
But you on the other hand . . .
Like I said, my pinky toenail is more Christlike than that filth-ridden chamber you call a heart. Have another cigarette, Lynn; all you're doing is giving God the middle finger.
Remember, He wanted more for you than for you to smoke yourself into a cloud of demonic oblivion. But hey, there's no holding back that repugnant hatred of yours, so have at it. Puff, puff, blow.
Wallow till you choke; that'll show 'em.
W
I Chose to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for my salvation...........that is how EVERYBODY gets saved. There is no merit in faith. I get saved the same way the other guy gets saved...........believing.
It's akin to boasting about eating to stay alive. Everybody else eats to stay alive........there is no merit and boasting about eating food to stay alive. The merit is in the food.
The merit in faith is CHRIST.
This gets lost because the MAJORITY try to put the merit in their faith(working for salvation/maintaining salvation by their personal faith.)
It's akin to boasting about eating to stay alive. Everybody else eats to stay alive........there is no merit and boasting about eating food to stay alive. The merit is in the food.
The merit in faith is CHRIST.
This gets lost because the MAJORITY try to put the merit in their faith(working for salvation/maintaining salvation by their personal faith.)
D
Sister, it always comes down to these things: 1) That if (since really) God chooses Sovereignly (and thank His Name that He does!) that it makes God 'unfair'; 2) We then see the persons replying against God; Romans 9:20; 3) Then comes the pitting of Scripture against Scripture, eisegetical interpretations, and reading of tradition into the Word; 4) They will not allow Scripture to correct them, Scripture that refutes their position readily.
For the record I used to hold to those same errors, then God did His work; 1 Corinthians 2:10ff.
By the way, I am amazed at the hugeness of God after coming to the Doctrines of Grace!
For the record I used to hold to those same errors, then God did His work; 1 Corinthians 2:10ff.
By the way, I am amazed at the hugeness of God after coming to the Doctrines of Grace!
Good morning brother. Thank you for taking the time to share as you have. I appreciate the reading but in the end, I simply don't buy it. The highlighted shows free will, not God's will. We're not robots.
Blessings
Bill
D
God wills that everyone should be saved. Will everyone be saved? I believe the scriptures are very clear that not all people choose to believe in Christ's work for them.
God would not be God if He violated His love and He doesn't predestine people to go to hell and choose hell for them. That is a mis-understanding and a complete violation of the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place. "Why" did our loving Father send Jesus His Son to redeem man-kind in the first place. Get that answer right and you will see that God does not predestine certain people apart from their will to go to hell.
But people are free to believe whatever they want on some subjects ( Not the deity and work of Christ for salvation ). People could believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation if they want. It does say something about "birds" in the book...
God would not be God if He violated His love and He doesn't predestine people to go to hell and choose hell for them. That is a mis-understanding and a complete violation of the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place. "Why" did our loving Father send Jesus His Son to redeem man-kind in the first place. Get that answer right and you will see that God does not predestine certain people apart from their will to go to hell.
But people are free to believe whatever they want on some subjects ( Not the deity and work of Christ for salvation ). People could believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation if they want. It does say something about "birds" in the book...
God will have himself a people to worship him and enjoy him forever.
Is that it?
If it's not, where did I go wrong?
If it is, then how does my understanding tell you I don't get it?
Because he predestined the first nation of his people too -- the Israelites. And it wasn't based on their decision either. No one ever gave them a choice to stay in Egypt or go. And they all went even though they regretted that decision later. God never waited for them to get around to it, and he doesn't wait for us to get around to it. He knows -- no one is getting around to it without him choosing.