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Looks like Depleted has handled things here quite well, and biblically.
I hear others decrying the predestining to hell doctrine (which we don't believe). You all do realize that each and every person was heading to hell, right, and deservedly so? And, that by grace God elected His people, dying for their sins in the Christ of God, giving these undeserved eternal life? (Matthew 1:21)
So let me ask, is it like they don't deserve hell? God has to give them a chance, or He's not fair? Or, since God does choose those whom He wills to save, is that unfair (and it is He who has chosen, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15)? No, it's not unfair, it's grace, and if God did not decree to elect some none would know Him nor be given eternal life. By the way, in this truth we see God's glory being revealed - it is called "justice". Be thankful to God that He didn't exercise it upon you if you're saved.
You all do understand the lost are not going to hell "for rejecting Christ," correct? I know some of you all preach that, but it is not accurate. In other words, you do understand they are all heading there prior to ever hearing if there is a Christ, correct? You all do realize that the faith by which you believe is the same power that raised Christ from the dead, correct? Ephesians 1:19? So why boast like you had some inherent faith power source and "exercised" it? If you already had this faith in you, then you've always been saved. Anyhow it wasn't some innate power source or ability to choose - it came from God and He get's all the glory.
Those of you bragging about how you humbled yourself, and you came to the cross? Nothing but boasting.
Now, which is it? Get it straight for once. It is either of these four, and not a combination thereof:
Pars Deo Gloria!
Pars Hominis Gloria!
Soli Hominis Gloria!
Soli Deo Gloria!
I hear others decrying the predestining to hell doctrine (which we don't believe). You all do realize that each and every person was heading to hell, right, and deservedly so? And, that by grace God elected His people, dying for their sins in the Christ of God, giving these undeserved eternal life? (Matthew 1:21)
So let me ask, is it like they don't deserve hell? God has to give them a chance, or He's not fair? Or, since God does choose those whom He wills to save, is that unfair (and it is He who has chosen, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15)? No, it's not unfair, it's grace, and if God did not decree to elect some none would know Him nor be given eternal life. By the way, in this truth we see God's glory being revealed - it is called "justice". Be thankful to God that He didn't exercise it upon you if you're saved.
You all do understand the lost are not going to hell "for rejecting Christ," correct? I know some of you all preach that, but it is not accurate. In other words, you do understand they are all heading there prior to ever hearing if there is a Christ, correct? You all do realize that the faith by which you believe is the same power that raised Christ from the dead, correct? Ephesians 1:19? So why boast like you had some inherent faith power source and "exercised" it? If you already had this faith in you, then you've always been saved. Anyhow it wasn't some innate power source or ability to choose - it came from God and He get's all the glory.
Those of you bragging about how you humbled yourself, and you came to the cross? Nothing but boasting.
Now, which is it? Get it straight for once. It is either of these four, and not a combination thereof:
Pars Deo Gloria!
Pars Hominis Gloria!
Soli Hominis Gloria!
Soli Deo Gloria!
That is yet another biblically ignorant statement above. The lost hate God and they will go to hell hating God. There is none who have desire to come to God for salvation that He will reject, John 6:37. Please, less time banging your keyboard with falsities, and more time studying under a sound Bible teacher.
Double election is not Biblical, God does not elect those to hell. Yes predestination is to be conformed to the image of Christ, by His foreknowledge and those He foreknew He also called/chose/elected/loved them, He also justified them, and He glorifies them as well. What is our inheritance, what are we to be conformed to, Christ's glorified body. How do we receive our glorified bodies, through salvation, that's why those He foreknew, He takes them through the salvation process. Read post #356 you 'll see the Scriptures where God calls/chooses/chose/loved before they believed/had faith/repented.
The Gospels is Jesus dealing with the Jews, who are the offspring of the fathers, who God chose/set His heart in loved toward them. Like Paul said not all of Israel are Abraham's offspring of faith. That's why they can be called to believe/receive/have faith, because God chose the fathers and their offspring. Even in that Jesus said in John 1:12-13 "Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."
Those that receive/believe He gave the right to be sons of God, by being born of God. They were born of God, then they believed. Ephesians 1:13 "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,"
Once you were in Him you also, heard the word of truth, the Gospel and believed, when you were already in Him. It doesn't say, when you heard the Word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, you were in Him, and were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. If you could believe to be born again/born of God/made alive with Him, no. We were died in trespasses and sins, that because of His mercy, we were saved by grace. Paul doesn't add faith to, "you have been saved by grace" until after he finishes explaining the end of our salvation, seating in heavenly places and the reason why He saved us by grace, to show in the age to come the riches of His immeasurable grace that He gave us in Christ Jesus.
Then Paul says, "for you have been saved by grace through faith." he's not saying that we receive grace because or by faith, he is using "through" the same way we use through when talking to some one with cancer, if the conversation goes there we would say. "For cancer you go through chemo" the word "through" is not saying that you get cancer from chemo, you go through chemo as a result of cancer.
Again read post #356, it show how we don't seek God or even think about Him.
The Gospels is Jesus dealing with the Jews, who are the offspring of the fathers, who God chose/set His heart in loved toward them. Like Paul said not all of Israel are Abraham's offspring of faith. That's why they can be called to believe/receive/have faith, because God chose the fathers and their offspring. Even in that Jesus said in John 1:12-13 "Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."
Those that receive/believe He gave the right to be sons of God, by being born of God. They were born of God, then they believed. Ephesians 1:13 "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,"
Once you were in Him you also, heard the word of truth, the Gospel and believed, when you were already in Him. It doesn't say, when you heard the Word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, you were in Him, and were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. If you could believe to be born again/born of God/made alive with Him, no. We were died in trespasses and sins, that because of His mercy, we were saved by grace. Paul doesn't add faith to, "you have been saved by grace" until after he finishes explaining the end of our salvation, seating in heavenly places and the reason why He saved us by grace, to show in the age to come the riches of His immeasurable grace that He gave us in Christ Jesus.
Then Paul says, "for you have been saved by grace through faith." he's not saying that we receive grace because or by faith, he is using "through" the same way we use through when talking to some one with cancer, if the conversation goes there we would say. "For cancer you go through chemo" the word "through" is not saying that you get cancer from chemo, you go through chemo as a result of cancer.
Again read post #356, it show how we don't seek God or even think about Him.
He thinks he IS being biblical. Let's go on with respect. It's difficult for all of us to consider the verses that seem to be in opposition to what we think. It's with difficulty that we deal with them and struggle with them. It is possible to have some things wrong and yet not have any motive of guile as far as we are aware.
No, sorry, I'm going to disagree with you here. First, nothing in his statement was biblical, and it doesn't matter if one THINKS they are biblical. If so, show me what he said was biblically true. Secondly, showing him that error isn't being disrespectful. Lastly, I never accused nor did I imply guile or deceit in what he said, so please end that accusation because it is unfounded and untrue. Thanks.
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Thats a lot of assumptions is it not? How can people know they need saved, yet work hard to make sure they are righteous enough to be saved if they can not know they need saved? Romans 1 says there will be no excuse.
plus jus think of the pride. God chose you, He did not chose the person standing next to you.. Why are you so special (you can say your not all you want.. It does not make it a fact, the world sees you as prideful. That is what boasting is)
plus jus think of the pride. God chose you, He did not chose the person standing next to you.. Why are you so special (you can say your not all you want.. It does not make it a fact, the world sees you as prideful. That is what boasting is)
Here's part of the issue: My brother falsely accused me of making statements on here that I never made. (He assumed I made statements that I didn't make). I asked for the evidence of that, and it was ignored. Then came the name calling, the accusations and implications of being of the devil, lost, things like that.
That's really sad, and attempt was made to reconcile. On here disagreement = attack, and biblical correction = attack, to some. So, before weighing in and thinking that gentleness was not there, be reminded there is some context to all of this. If you're going to accuse someone, give proof. If you're wrong, apologize for doing it.
And, we're men and women here, man up, woman up, receive correction and leave off the false accusations and name calling.
That's really sad, and attempt was made to reconcile. On here disagreement = attack, and biblical correction = attack, to some. So, before weighing in and thinking that gentleness was not there, be reminded there is some context to all of this. If you're going to accuse someone, give proof. If you're wrong, apologize for doing it.
And, we're men and women here, man up, woman up, receive correction and leave off the false accusations and name calling.
Yes He will, what is interesting is He said in John 6:43-45 "Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me" The Father calls/elects/chooses them to hear and learn from Him so they will come to Jesus.
Notice Him being lifted up, He will men to him, but no one comes unless the Father who sent Him draw them. He will draw them if He is lifted up, yes those that come to Him, the Father draws them. Yes they are one, at the same time they have different functions in our salvation. The Father elects by foreknowledge, we are sanctified by the Spirit to the obedience of Christ, for the sprinkling of blood. I Peter 1:1-2 "To those who are elect........,2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:"
Christ offered Himself to the Father, through the Eternal Spirit, so we can serve the living God. Hebrews 9:14 "how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God."
Notice Him being lifted up, He will men to him, but no one comes unless the Father who sent Him draw them. He will draw them if He is lifted up, yes those that come to Him, the Father draws them. Yes they are one, at the same time they have different functions in our salvation. The Father elects by foreknowledge, we are sanctified by the Spirit to the obedience of Christ, for the sprinkling of blood. I Peter 1:1-2 "To those who are elect........,2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:"
Christ offered Himself to the Father, through the Eternal Spirit, so we can serve the living God. Hebrews 9:14 "how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God."