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Hi marano! I've been reading some of your posts recently but never recall seeing you before. 
The thing I am trying to understand is to be told I am condemning someone in pride by saying I don't know who He will grant repentance and faith to.
But then, they are the ones condemning someone by saying they did not choose wisely while they themselves did.
It seems so backward to me, that I refuse to judge or condemn anyone but am told I am doing just that.
While they are judging and condemning them that they will not be saved because they chose poorly.
I don't think they can see what they are doing in this...
The thing I am trying to understand is to be told I am condemning someone in pride by saying I don't know who He will grant repentance and faith to.
But then, they are the ones condemning someone by saying they did not choose wisely while they themselves did.
It seems so backward to me, that I refuse to judge or condemn anyone but am told I am doing just that.
While they are judging and condemning them that they will not be saved because they chose poorly.
I don't think they can see what they are doing in this...
Hi marano! I've been reading some of your posts recently but never recall seeing you before. The thing I am trying to understand is to be told I am condemning someone in pride by saying I don't know who He will grant repentance and faith to.But then, they are the ones condemning someone by saying they did not choose wisely while they themselves did.It seems so backward to me, that I refuse to judge or condemn anyone but am told I am doing just that.While they are judging and condemning them that they will not be saved because they chose poorly.I don't think they can see what they are doing in this...
The thing I am trying to understand is to be told I am condemning someone in pride by saying I don't know who He will grant repentance and faith to.But then, they are the ones condemning someone by saying they did not choose wisely while they themselves did.It seems so backward to me, that I refuse to judge or condemn anyone but am told I am doing just that.While they are judging and condemning them that they will not be saved because they chose poorly.I don't think they can see what they are doing in this...
Originally Posted by Stephen63
I see your point.
As a matter of fact, if predestination of saved souls were true, praying for someone's salvation could be against God's will
As a matter of fact, if predestination of saved souls were true, praying for someone's salvation could be against God's will
we do not demand, we ask.
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D
Yes, but did you disagree as you do now, respectfully, or did you do it as you used to do in the past, which was brutal and made us all fear speaking with you?
Because if he is holding a grudge for the way you spoke to him in the past, that is very dangerous for him, and you should do all you can to make amends so that he won't go on in the harm of unforgiveness. God has blessed you and given you control of your tongue. A lot of prayers of thanks have gone up for how He has blessed you because all have seen your improvement and blessing in this. Use that blessing well. Try to make peace. Then, if he insists on not forgiving, you will have done all that is required to make peace and the ball is in his court.
I marvel all the time over how I used to fear speaking with you and now I love to speak with you. I go searching for your posts now.
Because if he is holding a grudge for the way you spoke to him in the past, that is very dangerous for him, and you should do all you can to make amends so that he won't go on in the harm of unforgiveness. God has blessed you and given you control of your tongue. A lot of prayers of thanks have gone up for how He has blessed you because all have seen your improvement and blessing in this. Use that blessing well. Try to make peace. Then, if he insists on not forgiving, you will have done all that is required to make peace and the ball is in his court.
I marvel all the time over how I used to fear speaking with you and now I love to speak with you. I go searching for your posts now.
BUT he will tell you he holds a grudge for how I went after his friend -- someone like him. And that is true. I went after his friend for teach a false gospel (not even semi-based on the Bible) that never worked for him, and yet he's been trying to teach people that gospel ever since. If it doesn't work for you, why teach it? And that is what Utah will explain, in an entirely different way, for the reason he holds a grudge on me.
Funny thing. He called a truce with me after that. It worked for all of two weeks. And this is how he keeps his truce. (No more trust for him, unless something changes within him.)
I don't see me as scary, but I get others do. I've been critiquing other writers' stories for quite a few years now, and critiquing is telling it like it is -- good news and bad news. I get the slap of reality (bad news) is like the ice bucket challenge, but once the rush of the ice runs off the body, it's wonderful to see ways to improve. And it's nice to see some things are working for ya. This is what I do most of the time. I think that's why most people think I'm scary. They're waiting for the, "Yeah, but I disagree here" with vigorous reasons why. That hasn't stopped. How I present it has gotten better.
Hi marano! I've been reading some of your posts recently but never recall seeing you before.
The thing I am trying to understand is to be told I am condemning someone in pride by saying I don't know who He will grant repentance and faith to.
But then, they are the ones condemning someone by saying they did not choose wisely while they themselves did.
It seems so backward to me, that I refuse to judge or condemn anyone but am told I am doing just that.
While they are judging and condemning them that they will not be saved because they chose poorly.
I don't think they can see what they are doing in this...
The thing I am trying to understand is to be told I am condemning someone in pride by saying I don't know who He will grant repentance and faith to.
But then, they are the ones condemning someone by saying they did not choose wisely while they themselves did.
It seems so backward to me, that I refuse to judge or condemn anyone but am told I am doing just that.
While they are judging and condemning them that they will not be saved because they chose poorly.
I don't think they can see what they are doing in this...
Having a choice and choosing wrongly is not on God. God is no respecter of persons. To say that everyone has a choice is not condemning or judging anyone, but to say some folks were made only to be rejected no matter what they do is pretty harsh.
And your faith saving you over God's grace doesn't? those answers are from a human prospective, by the time you would know that you will be in the presents of a Holy, righteous and just God and you won't even be thinking about that, quote the Scripture that says we will know are family or friend when we are with the Lord in the New Heaven and New Earth, worshiping Him in the New Jerusalem?
Don't take this wrong, because there is no other way to say it. It's like you guys don't know how Holy, Righteous, Just God is and He has all knowledge that is why His judgement are pure and righteous and just, because of who He is. At the time you realize if you can, that your family was not elect, it wouldn't matter and this if we even will know who they are, but they will be justly judged by God as will I. You guys (for leak of a better term, can't think of one) keep making up the scenarios to discredit God, why would you do that? Why would anyone that loves God come up with ideas to make God look like a monster in the eyes of the natural man, because whatever God does is pure and right!
If He were to elect people to hell He would be right to do it, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, there is none righteous no, not one, they have all turned aside and have gone astray like sheep, the thoughts of their hearts are always evil and in their thoughts they don't honor God as God, but their thoughts are there is no God, because they love their sin rather then God, because they love their wicked ways, their hearts are deceitfully wicked, who can know it, no one seeks the Lord or His ways, they do not meditate on His Word or His precepts, statutes or law, the do not see Hs law as pure or sweeter than honey, because His Law reveals their wicked hearts, because they no Him not, they say there is no God! If they only knew that your Law is sweeter than honey comb, they would delight in it and worship you, because your mercies are from everlasting to everlasting and the are new every morning, you are awesome and wonderful, the mountains tremble at your voice, yet the wicked have no fear of you, by your Word the world leapt into existence by which you hold all things together, you call those things that do not exist as though they did.
Don't take this wrong, because there is no other way to say it. It's like you guys don't know how Holy, Righteous, Just God is and He has all knowledge that is why His judgement are pure and righteous and just, because of who He is. At the time you realize if you can, that your family was not elect, it wouldn't matter and this if we even will know who they are, but they will be justly judged by God as will I. You guys (for leak of a better term, can't think of one) keep making up the scenarios to discredit God, why would you do that? Why would anyone that loves God come up with ideas to make God look like a monster in the eyes of the natural man, because whatever God does is pure and right!
If He were to elect people to hell He would be right to do it, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, there is none righteous no, not one, they have all turned aside and have gone astray like sheep, the thoughts of their hearts are always evil and in their thoughts they don't honor God as God, but their thoughts are there is no God, because they love their sin rather then God, because they love their wicked ways, their hearts are deceitfully wicked, who can know it, no one seeks the Lord or His ways, they do not meditate on His Word or His precepts, statutes or law, the do not see Hs law as pure or sweeter than honey, because His Law reveals their wicked hearts, because they no Him not, they say there is no God! If they only knew that your Law is sweeter than honey comb, they would delight in it and worship you, because your mercies are from everlasting to everlasting and the are new every morning, you are awesome and wonderful, the mountains tremble at your voice, yet the wicked have no fear of you, by your Word the world leapt into existence by which you hold all things together, you call those things that do not exist as though they did.
That is not predestination. Predestination is that God chose some for salvation and then predestinates them according to His purpose. ALL men are bound for Hell because of sin, not because God has predestinated them
All men are born sinners inherited from their fathers and therefore are bound for Hell. But because they are sinners they will never choose God. It is only by God's election, followed by justification and rebirth, that some do 'choose' Him.
All men are born sinners inherited from their fathers and therefore are bound for Hell. But because they are sinners they will never choose God. It is only by God's election, followed by justification and rebirth, that some do 'choose' Him.
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I haven't said some were created only to be rejected no matter what they do. I have specifically said I don't know who He will grant repentance and faith to, and so I don't condemn anyone. I have been given such great riches. I won't use this gift to then turn and condemn anyone. (The only way I could do that is if I earned it in some way.) God judges. I take it to heart that I will be judged as I have judged. If I judge someone won't be shown mercy, I am condemning myself.
I really cannot wrap my head around this predestination thing...You are saying you don't know who God will grant forgiveness too, but you are sure you are one of those elect, right. So why even worry about being shown mercy...If you are elected you should have no worries, right. It's all those other folks in the world who may or may not be elected who should worry, right