Not By Works

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Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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We are on the same merry-go-round. This is a total waste of time actually but I will give out more scripture for those readers that don't know about the truth that we are safe in Christ.

You believe it is up to the individual to maintain their own salvation and others believe it is actually Christ Himself and what He has done by His perfect work on the cross and resurrection that has saved us. You are entitled to believe whatever you desire.

Do a Greek verb tense study on Eph. 2:8-9 and see what the "perfect tense" means in Greek and I believe it will help - if not you - it will help others.

Again there are some people that don't believe Jesus is lying to us when He said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16

Here is what Paul said about those people that were living by the flesh in Corinth. Notice he didn't say that they were unsaved now and lost their salvation. I know this truth of what Christ has done is hard on our natural reasonings and some of our church doctrines that deny the work of Christ but Paul encountered the same things.

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?

Notice that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning.
Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.
Let's look at Ephesians 2:8 in context. We see its obvious Ephesians 2 is all focused on grace and salvation. Really all of Ephesians is focused on grace. This should be one warning that ephesians 2:8 may not be speaking on both faith and salvation as the gift. Paul had to include faith because part of how grace is to be given. But Paul was focusing on grace throughout the whole letter.

For by grace you are saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves; (it is) of God the gift.

The 2nd warning is given in the greek interlinear verse.
Grace and faith are both a noun, feminine, and singular.
Gift is a noun, neuter, and singular.

We have to first look and see that gift being neuter doesn't match feminine even though all three are singular.Only implying gift is matched to another word in the verse.

This is a demonstrative pronoun which is always followed by a noun This is neuter and singular which matches the following noun gift.

And so the gift is matched with this. But now the question is since this is singular and referring to one word or concept. But obviously, we can't know because grace and faith are feminine. So now we understand this must be referred to the concept of the subject at hand.

We have to study it in context to see is Paul speaking of at all inephesians about faith being the gift of God at any other point. In fact, he does not but is heavily focused on grace. So this is warning 3.

Warning four is seeing what the word gift is related to throughout the NT since the greek word in Ephesians 2:8 is used once. You do not have to go very far to finda example. In Ephesians 3:7

Ephesians 3:7New International Version (NIV)

7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power.

Romans 6:23Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


And so with all these clues pointing to gift being referred to a singular concept and in context it is obvious what this concept is. The gift is referred to grace.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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This being said God created us to respond to him not be forced into response.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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The works of boast is not true faith. Since faithful faith is is a active faith of surrendering and obedience
 
Jan 5, 2016
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I felt God told me this [h=1]John 14:15-31[/h]If we love JESUS WE WILL KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. we do GOOD WORKS because we LOVE JESUS <3333
 
Feb 24, 2015
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We are on the same merry-go-round. This is a total waste of time actually but I will give out more scripture for those readers that don't know about the truth that we are safe in Christ.
Ok, let me put this into a simple language. You meet someone special.
You spend time getting to know them and finally decide to get married.

Once married you start to do everything your spouse hates. You disagree
with what they take delight in, you do things that upset them and they find
disgusting, and you refuse to even talk with them.

Now a divorce would soon happen.

So how we behave in intimate relationships matter, it is their life blood.

Listen to Jesus and Paul. We will be one. Having the same mind and thoughts.
Be of one mind. Agree in everything. Die for each other, serve one another,
love one another.

be like-minded (1 Peter 3:8)

be of one mind (2 Cor 13:11 Phil 2:2)

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus
Phil 2:5

you be perfectly united in mind and thought
1 Cor 1:10

love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22

that they may be one as we are one
John 17:11

These believers have no clue what we are really called to or what love,
our hearts, our aspirations are really aimed at.

They think a sinner can stay a sinner and get this level of intimacy, insane.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
Ok, let me put this into a simple language. You meet someone special.
You spend time getting to know them and finally decide to get married.

Once married you start to do everything your spouse hates. You disagree
with what they take delight in, you do things that upset them and they find
disgusting, and you refuse to even talk with them.

Now a divorce would soon happen.

So how we behave in intimate relationships matter, it is their life blood.

Listen to Jesus and Paul. We will be one. Having the same mind and thoughts.
Be of one mind. Agree in everything. Die for each other, serve one another,
love one another.

be like-minded (1 Peter 3:8)

be of one mind (2 Cor 13:11 Phil 2:2)

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus
Phil 2:5

you be perfectly united in mind and thought
1 Cor 1:10

love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22

that they may be one as we are one
John 17:11

These believers have no clue what we are really called to or what love,
our hearts, our aspirations are really aimed at.

They think a sinner can stay a sinner and get this level of intimacy, insane.
Amen this is why we have so many references to a marriage to show us the relationship between God and us.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Yes, it's me. Divebombing y'all in this forum. Deal with it.. lol

:eek:
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
Yes, it's me. Divebombing y'all in this forum. Deal with it.. lol

:eek:
Dive bomb away my point was faith isnt the works the bible speaks of. Faith is our reaction to surrender knowing we cant do nothing on our own. But only trust in Gods words, and be led by the Spirit
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I do not have strong faith, I have a strong God. I trust and rely on Him, and what He has put in me. "Digging in" is not something I need to do. I don't need to gut it out for God, this is not a requirement for Him to dwell in me. I only need to trust and rely on my God. Rest in His peace and mercy, then let Him finish the work in me. It's not by my actions that this happens. It is by the almighty God. This doesn't mean that I don't work, it just means I fully understand that I am not the source of that work. I am merely a vessel, His temple.
Amen to this....I so agree.......
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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I meant divebomb in the way that a fly suddenly appears in your face, then flies away before you can swat it..lol


Dive bomb away my point was faith isnt the works the bible speaks of. Faith is our reaction to surrender knowing we cant do nothing on our own. But only trust in Gods words, and be led by the Spirit
 
Dec 12, 2013
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There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...
Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.


1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling

3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4) The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness
)

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption


1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,


Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only thing that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32
Amen I hear that.....
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Here's a spiritual bomb. The bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. AND it says that there is not one righteous person.. It also says that we are not to boast..of our works or anything else. The bible also says that God came to save the sinners, not the sinless workers.. ahem, I mean the righteous.. lol ;)


Drop a few spiritual bombs on the sinless workers for........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Here's a spiritual bomb. The bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. AND it says that there is not one righteous person.. It also says that we are not to boast..of our works or anything else. The bible also says that God came to save the sinners, not the sinless workers.. ahem, I mean the righteous.. lol ;)

Amen and I concur......hahahha boom boom boom......
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Here's a spiritual bomb. The bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. AND it says that there is not one righteous person.. It also says that we are not to boast..of our works or anything else. The bible also says that God came to save the sinners, not the sinless workers.. ahem, I mean the righteous.. lol ;)
Very true as to the very importance to remain in faith of the only means to salvation, Jesus. Walk away and lose faith of the only hope we have, what other kind of hope can they rest on? Under Jesus is our atonement but deny Jesus and your denying your only atonement for sin.

I sorta remember this kind of conversation between Jesus and his disciples when many disciples chose to not follow Jesus any more.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Drop a few spiritual bombs on the sinless workers for........
If you believe me holding on to faith in Gods promises is working to be sinless. That would be straight up ignorant. Works are trying to uphold the law to be granted salvation. I doubt any here believe this in less your any other religion than Christian.

If was to be a work, God wouldn't of made faith the key to be given grace.

I mean how many times in the NT alone does the writer have to say have faith, the faithful, or remain in faith. Why say that if faith is given by God to allow them to make all the way to salvation. Why keep telling us to have faith.

My faith in Jesus is the reason why I surrender to him, listen to his words, listen to the Spirit, and then in obedience i hear the word/spirit and be led by it.

It all begins in faith.

I think where we disagree is you believe faith is a gift, and we lose our free will as God elects his chosen few.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Faith is a gift 1st Corinthians 13 and

God has dealt to ever man a measure of faith.....

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

The bolded is grammatically aimed that the faith that saves...end of story! Faith is of/from God and it is GIVEN...something GIVEN is not earned...period!
 
W

wsblind

Guest
I think where we disagree is you believe faith is a gift, and we lose our free will as God elects his chosen few.
Honestly. Your being told that it is either Armin or Calvin. Period. If your not Calvin your Armin. If your not Armin your Calvin.

Not true. Christianity is neither Armin or Calvin. DC is teaching CHRISTIAN principles.