Not By Works

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Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

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eternally-gratefull said:
I was just making the point we should not start a discussion judging people as one or the other.. That happens to much in here, and why their is so much fighting..

People think they know what others believe, when they have not a utter clue of what they think, based on the fact they are trying to force them into a belief system (say like Calvin or Armenian) they do not fall under. Its like trying to force a rectangle block into a square hole. They do not fit..
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I understand that and try not to but when beliefs fall into calvinsim I don't agree with then it's easier for others to understand the belief I am against if they look to see what Calvinism has to say on that certain belief. Obviously, some fall under many different beliefs. But that doesn't mean they don't hold some Calvinistic belief.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#3,802
#3,802
Roughsoul1991 said:
I understand that and try not to but when beliefs fall into calvinsim I don't agree with then it's easier for others to understand the belief I am against if they look to see what Calvinism has to say on that certain belief. Obviously, some fall under many different beliefs. But that doesn't mean they don't hold some Calvinistic belief.
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I agree, I think we all have some things we agree on.. Thats why I think it is dangerous to label people.. I believe in unlimited atonement, An Armenian held belief, I also believe in eternal security, A Calvinist belief.

So we see how if someone labeled me as a calvcanist, they would already have a false sense of understanding of what I believe.

It is not just those two.. Many take wheat their pastor says as gospel truth.. I remember, I was told certain groups are dangerous. And I believed it. So would condemn them for no reason.. I had to come out and admit I was wrong. Admit I was taught wrong, and actually listen to what they actually believed.. Otherwise, all we did was argue.. and I was closed minded..

That never works.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3,803
#3,803
Roughsoul1991 said:
Okay whatever you say lol
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well, it is true,, I warned my kids, as my parents warned me.. Nothing different about God warning us , well accept he is perfect and seeds all. And would never be wrong in his warnings....lol
 
slave

slave

Senior Member
#3,804
Mar 20, 2015
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PeterJens said:
I would love to see some members actually understand what others are saying,
take them at their word and see things from their perspective.

I doubt some are actually capable of doing this, all they can do is be biased and
antagonistic.

It has been said until you walk in another persons shoes you cannot judge them.
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Amen!.... One who does the work of the Lord must possess in his personal life the habit of being a good listener. This is not just listening obediently but listening with understanding as well. It is a great need in the personal life of a worker. No one can do good work if he is always talking and never listening. A person whose mouth goes on continually like firecrackers that crack one after another is useless in God's hand. No workman of God can be always talking. For how can he discern the problem of the person he is conversing with if he is speaking all the time. He is absolutely useless in helping people. When a person comes to you wishing to talk, you must learn how to listen before God. As he speaks, you need to be able to decipher three different kinds of words: 1) the words spoken, 2) those unspoken, and 3) those hidden within his spirit. Not judgement, but discernment.
 
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JIMBO43

JIMBO43

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Mar 7, 2016
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slave said:
Amen!.... One who does the work of the Lord must possess in his personal life the habit of being a good listener. This is not just listening obediently but listening with understanding as well. It is a great need in the personal life of a worker. No one can do good work if he is always talking and never listening. A person whose mouth goes on continually like firecrackers that crack one after another is useless in God's hand. No workman of God can be always talking. For how can he discern the problem of the person he is conversing with if he is speaking all the time. He is absolutely useless in helping people. When a person comes to you wishing to talk, you must learn how to listen before God. As he speaks, you need to be able to decipher three different kinds of words: 1) the words spoken, 2) those unspoken, and 3) those hidden within his spirit. Not judgement, but discernment.
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Yup and the talkers are also the ones to watch out for (Gossipers who dont desern just point the finger and basicaly just floor people with the jive and slander..

Bad works for sure..
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

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I asked my self this question When and why Does God answer your prayer ?

The only answer i could come up with is when you pray ..

He needs you to pray befor he can answer,, so does he pray for you and answer his own prayer ?

I cant see it and this has to be works of an expression of you seeking that which is in you or in the days of the old t seeking for the comfort Good spirits can bring you,,, My theory is that in the Old t all they never had the spirit they where still comforted enough to make them Know God was real...

Prayer is a works and also No 1 armour in the locker without it God can not Do his work. which makes me think He needs more than Just Faith to do his work.. he needs the works to which is why Faith without works is dead... And you cant have one without the other..

So your works do matter come judgement day where you gain your ultimate comfirmation of walking with brothers in the new world.
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

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mailmandan said:
"Draw away disciples after themselves" is the goal of these grievous wolves, which is a good description of these men in Acts 20. You don't have to look very hard to find such men, even on Christian forums. I recently left one particular Christian forum because it had just about been completely hijacked by such men. That forum was nothing but a war zone!

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BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#3,810
Feb 15, 2017
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Roughsoul1991 said:
Because the very last act the thief did was act in faith. That was him being faithful unto the end
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But he wasn't dead but was assured where he would be before he died.

Jesus was already dead before the thief was dead.

John 19:31-33
Jesus' Side Is Pierced
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

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eternally-gratefull said:
how can "you" know someone has good works? And is not just religious?

You can't so what good is it? God does not need it, You can't use it to determine someone elses salvation, so other than you examining you own faith, what good is it?
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BillG

BillG

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Do you not realize the later letters written by paul on toward revelations was written as they began to see people lose faith, fall away, and start to be persecuted. This is why the later letters are so different and filled with warnings and encouragement to pesevere.
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My understanding is that they started to lose faith because they were being persecuted.
The warnings written were for those being persecuted and as a result return back to Judaism and of course false teachers trying to entangle beleivers with a bit of Judaism.
 
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truthhurts

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Apr 4, 2017
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OK, So it is clear that salvation is not by any kind of works we do....it is based on what Jesus Christ did and him alone....Now that we have this understood...lets move along....

What is required after we receive the free gift of salvation by grace, through faith? Oh and before some of you get silly...I am not asking what is required to maintain salvation....you don't do anything to maintain salvation....

I am asking you what is required to maintain spiritual growth and to grow in Christ...post conversion

You were a sinner and fell short, you got Jesus by grace and through faith, and not of yourself, you are now a new man and then what?

What does the walk look like after for by grace you are saved, through faith, not of yourselves?

What does the new found relationship need now....what are the expectations of both parties in this new relationship? Should we bring others into this new relationship?

How do some of you think growing up spiritually after salvation should look?

and lets cut the fish here...Do not ask me at all if I am attempting to show how we maintain our salvation....I am not...I am asking you what this new found life in Christ should look like, how we grow in and what is your new creation reality?

If I need to start this as a new topic I will but....based on so many answers, lets lay down salvation for a moment and start from the fact that says...

I do nothing in myself to obtain or maintain my personal salvation, so what's next?
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

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BillG said:
My understanding is that they started to lose faith because they were being persecuted.
The warnings written were for those being persecuted and as a result return back to Judaism and of course false teachers trying to entangle beleivers with a bit of Judaism.
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Micah 4:3-5 "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hat spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever."
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

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GOD HAS A PLAN FOR THOSE who have been taught Jesus is only a prohphet
 
BillG

BillG

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JIMBO43 said:
Micah 4:3-5 "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hat spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever."
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Can you explained how this relates to my post.

no more bible verses but in your own understanding.

Ta
 
BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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truthhurts said:
OK, So it is clear that salvation is not by any kind of works we do....it is based on what Jesus Christ did and him alone....Now that we have this understood...lets move along....

What is required after we receive the free gift of salvation by grace, through faith? Oh and before some of you get silly...I am not asking what is required to maintain salvation....you don't do anything to maintain salvation....

I am asking you what is required to maintain spiritual growth and to grow in Christ...post conversion

You were a sinner and fell short, you got Jesus by grace and through faith, and not of yourself, you are now a new man and then what?

What does the walk look like after for by grace you are saved, through faith, not of yourselves?

What does the new found relationship need now....what are the expectations of both parties in this new relationship? Should we bring others into this new relationship?

How do some of you think growing up spiritually after salvation should look?

and lets cut the fish here...Do not ask me at all if I am attempting to show how we maintain our salvation....I am not...I am asking you what this new found life in Christ should look like, how we grow in and what is your new creation reality?

If I need to start this as a new topic I will but....based on so many answers, lets lay down salvation for a moment and start from the fact that says...

I do nothing in myself to obtain or maintain my personal salvation, so what's next?
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Good questions but me thinks if you start a new topic it will as long as this one is
 
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