Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
call me a works if ya like but i love hoping for Cookies befor a good work It is evident many here do not believe the word of faith in your heart and mouth is needed for salvation but Romans 10.5-13 says different...
Rom 10.5-13
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), [SUP]7 [/SUP]or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” [SUP]8 [/SUP]But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, [SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; [SUP]10 [/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; [SUP]13 [/SUP]for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Rom 10.5-13
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), [SUP]7 [/SUP]or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” [SUP]8 [/SUP]But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, [SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; [SUP]10 [/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; [SUP]13 [/SUP]for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Finally!!!
Someone else who teaches the same thing I've been saying for years.
It's so plain, simple, and easily seen, and yet so few, who call themselves Christians, can even see it.
And to get them to understand the concept is even more difficult.
I have proven that speaking words of faith is a work of faith, as Jesus called His raising the dead, healings, and casting filthy spirits out of people, works.
Both James and Paul stated that nothing will happen UNTIL you do a work that corresponds to what you believe in your heart. For faith to work, one must speak, say, or do something that lines up with their faith or what they believe in their heart.
2Co4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe,and therefore speak;
If you want to have the same faith they had in the old testament times,you have to believe and do as they did.
One thing most people don't know though is that this faith works for both the positive and negative, for good and bad, for blessing or to cursing.
Jesus said;
Mat12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
And again;
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue:and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
Many people, including real Christian, many times cause bad thing to come their way by what they first agreed with and then spoke it.
For example, they might feel a pain and then go to the doctor to get examined, and the doctor comes back and says, "you have cancer",then they unwittingly say, "I have cancer?"
According to Jesus, they just agreed to having the cancer, instead of rejecting it.
Mat26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mar15:2 And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews?And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
And as for rejecting sickness and disease;
Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not [or rejects from having],from him [or that which he rejected from coming on him] shall be taken [away] even that which he seemeth [or was said] to have.
If we reject the bad things, as we accept the good, we would avoid some of the bad things from coming on us. It takes faith with corresponding works, (like saying that you agree with a doctor,) to receive both good and bad.
A Tree and Its Fruit
Luk6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Luk6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
Luk6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth [or causes to manifest itself in the natural] that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
There's that heart and mouth thing that causes what you say to come to past,again.
Thank you for your post sir, it is the truth of the gospel.
Someone else who teaches the same thing I've been saying for years.
It's so plain, simple, and easily seen, and yet so few, who call themselves Christians, can even see it.
And to get them to understand the concept is even more difficult.
I have proven that speaking words of faith is a work of faith, as Jesus called His raising the dead, healings, and casting filthy spirits out of people, works.
Both James and Paul stated that nothing will happen UNTIL you do a work that corresponds to what you believe in your heart. For faith to work, one must speak, say, or do something that lines up with their faith or what they believe in their heart.
2Co4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe,and therefore speak;
If you want to have the same faith they had in the old testament times,you have to believe and do as they did.
One thing most people don't know though is that this faith works for both the positive and negative, for good and bad, for blessing or to cursing.
Jesus said;
Mat12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
And again;
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue:and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
Many people, including real Christian, many times cause bad thing to come their way by what they first agreed with and then spoke it.
For example, they might feel a pain and then go to the doctor to get examined, and the doctor comes back and says, "you have cancer",then they unwittingly say, "I have cancer?"
According to Jesus, they just agreed to having the cancer, instead of rejecting it.
Mat26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mar15:2 And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews?And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
And as for rejecting sickness and disease;
Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not [or rejects from having],from him [or that which he rejected from coming on him] shall be taken [away] even that which he seemeth [or was said] to have.
If we reject the bad things, as we accept the good, we would avoid some of the bad things from coming on us. It takes faith with corresponding works, (like saying that you agree with a doctor,) to receive both good and bad.
A Tree and Its Fruit
Luk6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Luk6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
Luk6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth [or causes to manifest itself in the natural] that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
There's that heart and mouth thing that causes what you say to come to past,again.
Thank you for your post sir, it is the truth of the gospel.
Oh that's right, your all that and a bag of understanding....the verbiage is clear, the grammar is clear and the post valid....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Faith is a gift 1st Corinthians 13 and
God has dealt to ever man a measure of faith.....
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of WORKS kest any many should boast....
The bolded is grammatically aimed that the faith that saves...end of story! Faith is of/from God and it is GIVEN...something GIVEN is not earned...period!
God has dealt to ever man a measure of faith.....
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of WORKS kest any many should boast....
The bolded is grammatically aimed that the faith that saves...end of story! Faith is of/from God and it is GIVEN...something GIVEN is not earned...period!
Oh that's right, your all that and a bag of understanding....the verbiage is clear, the grammar is clear and the post valid....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Faith is a gift 1st Corinthians 13 and
God has dealt to ever man a measure of faith.....
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of WORKS kest any many should boast....
The bolded is grammatically aimed that the faith that saves...end of story! Faith is of/from God and it is GIVEN...something GIVEN is not earned...period!
God has dealt to ever man a measure of faith.....
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of WORKS kest any many should boast....
The bolded is grammatically aimed that the faith that saves...end of story! Faith is of/from God and it is GIVEN...something GIVEN is not earned...period!
Which is the free gift here!?!??! Grace or faith?
Its all good with me, it only makes it easier to preach truth. 98% of the time just by preaching in context you can show the misunderstanding or twist.
The other 2% can be proven by seeking scholars commentaries.
For the most part scripture isnt hard to understand but people try too hard to make it fit a certain belief.
Idk i just understand scripture easily and really get suprised at all of the interpretations. As to the reason i stay open minded. But so far even throughout all my studies and research my understanding was for the most part accurate from the first time reading the bible without extra beliefs.
I think thats probably how it is for most until they allow all of these others teachings to change that initial belief.
I mean if scripture is breathing and a infant believer can read it and understand at the same time a mature believer can read it and learn more.
What you learn at first is probably accurate. But many lose faith in what God revealed or led them to. So they except easier less mature belief and then force scripture to fit that.
The other 2% can be proven by seeking scholars commentaries.
For the most part scripture isnt hard to understand but people try too hard to make it fit a certain belief.
Idk i just understand scripture easily and really get suprised at all of the interpretations. As to the reason i stay open minded. But so far even throughout all my studies and research my understanding was for the most part accurate from the first time reading the bible without extra beliefs.
I think thats probably how it is for most until they allow all of these others teachings to change that initial belief.
I mean if scripture is breathing and a infant believer can read it and understand at the same time a mature believer can read it and learn more.
What you learn at first is probably accurate. But many lose faith in what God revealed or led them to. So they except easier less mature belief and then force scripture to fit that.
Galatians 5New International Version (NIV)
Freedom in Christ
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth?
Freedom in Christ
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth?
Notice also this very sequences of verses Paul saying what happens if we return to trying to live by the flesh instead of God. Which is the rebuke directed at works of the law.
But then at the bottom Paul is asking who cut you off from obeying truth? Obviously being obedient to truth and living in faith is not a work of what Paul mentioned above. Its part of Faith.
But then at the bottom Paul is asking who cut you off from obeying truth? Obviously being obedient to truth and living in faith is not a work of what Paul mentioned above. Its part of Faith.