Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I can condemn no one to hell.. I can condemn a false gospel. In fact Paul tells us to. In gal 1. If anyone (he meant anyone) teach anything different in what he taught, let them be accursed.

Different means different, If one word is different, it is different.

there are not 136 ways to heaven, there is one..

 

[PeterJens]

can a good tree produce bad fruit?

Nope. If you take the vine parable, the fruit is because we abide in Christ, and
we are part of Him, so it is impossible Christ can bear bad fruit.

 

[garee]

If I may, I am confused.

If faith (true) always produces works, Like DCON and yeah, all of us say and agree with.Then how can someone have true faith in God, and never have works? and why do people keep asking about it, as if it is something that will not happen..

Part of the reason from my experiences is that men do not think God needs faith to work out what he desires. Let there be by a work of faith(believing it would appear) and there was light.

If we do not accredit the work of faith to Christ, our faithful Creator then we must attribute that work to us which in the end of the matter would be to commit blasphemy.

A clear distinction between the things of God in respect to the faith of God in Christ, and those of men must be made.

We are saved by works like Abraham and Rehab just not according to our own self but a righteousness that is imputed to us by Him.

Remember it is Christ who works in us according to His work of faith to both will and do His good pleasure.. Therefore purifying our new born again hearts, by a work of His faith.

We are freely given the faith of Christ to believe God, it is not of us (the imaginations of ones own heart) but towards us.
As for james, He spoke to people who believed God yet had not yet repented and come to true faith, They thought because they believed they were ok.. James is letting them know. It take more tham mental agreement, it takes true faith in God..

It is the work of God that we can believe Him and not of our own self. He calls us to repentance, hearing His voice turns us towards Him so that then after being turned according to the hearing of faith, we can then repent.

Test your faith, If you claim you have faith, But you have no works,, Then most likely your faith is dead, and you need to do some soul searching.

Again we saved by a work of Faith. That faith (Christ's) is given as a free gift that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure comes by the work of Christ faith asa imputed righteousness.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith(Christ’s) wrought with his (Christ’s) works, and by works was faith(Christ’s) made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21

 

[PeterJens]

I can condemn no one to hell.. I can condemn a false gospel. In fact Paul tells us to. In gal 1. If anyone (he meant anyone) teach anything different in what he taught, let them be accursed.

Different means different, If one word is different, it is different.

there are not 136 ways to heaven, there is one..

We all believe Christ is the way to heaven as we all believers here.

If we are salt and light to the world, literally by how we behave, then if we behave
badly this must reflect on what we are inside.

So Paul as Saul tried to find God through the law and only found rebellion and sin.
In Christ he found righteousness and love to the degree he could say be behaved
in a holy, loving, pure, blameless manner to the degree of testifying to it and asking
other to realise what God had done in him and the example he was giving.

It is this language he uses and obvious walk in the Spirit.
So in knowing Christ he found reality and freedom and love overflowing.

So you talk about different gospels, but actually you do not realise we are saying
the same gospel. It is in knowing Christ we are saved, being healed, washed and
forgiven, transformed, born again, becoming a temple of the Holy Spirit.

I think you want to manufacture differences so you have someone as an enemy,
someone to blame for the hurts you suffered as a kid. But you know more than me.
And I hold nothing against you, you are as you are.

 

[garee]

Nope. If you take the vine parable, the fruit is because we abide in Christ, and
we are part of Him, so it is impossible Christ can bear bad fruit.

Yes according to the faith, as a work of God… a labor of His love alone that works in the new creation…. forgiving any sin a person might commit under the sun as the better thing that accompanies salvation .Not a kick start placing a person where Adam and Eve were before they violated one commandment and there soul died as in no eternal spirit life.

The wage is still eternal separation every time a person sins.It took a eternal being to accomplish His good will.

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

mathew 7 : 18

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

john 8 :34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

mathew 6 : 24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon

john 2 -15 +15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

what does this mean? in context

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Part of the reason from my experiences is that men do not think God needs faith to work out what he desires. Let there be by a work of faith(believing it would appear) and there was light.

If we do not accredit the work of faith to Christ, our faithful Creator then we must attribute that work to us which in the end of the matter would be to commit blasphemy.

A clear distinction between the things of God in respect to the faith of God in Christ, and those of men must be made.

We are saved by works like Abraham and Rehab just not according to our own self but a righteousness that is imputed to us by Him.

Remember it is Christ who works in us according to His work of faith to both will and do His good pleasure.. Therefore purifying our new born again hearts, by a work of His faith.

We are freely given the faith of Christ to believe God, it is not of us (the imaginations of ones own heart) but towards us.
As for james, He spoke to people who believed God yet had not yet repented and come to true faith, They thought because they believed they were ok.. James is letting them know. It take more tham mental agreement, it takes true faith in God..

It is the work of God that we can believe Him and not of our own self. He calls us to repentance, hearing His voice turns us towards Him so that then after being turned according to the hearing of faith, we can then repent.


Again we saved by a work of Faith. That faith (Christ's) is given as a free gift that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure comes by the work of Christ faith asa imputed righteousness.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith(Christ’s) wrought with his (Christ’s) works, and by works was faith(Christ’s) made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21

1. If we think that, Then I would ask. Are we saved at all. Why would we say we have faith in God, yet deny it by our actions.. Did we hae faith? According to James, No.
2. Abraham was saved before he did one work. After God declared hi9m righteous,

He sinned twice by saying his wife was his sister
He sinned by committing adultry because he did not trust God, or because his flesh was weak, The world has suffered from that sin ever since.
He eventually grew in faith, Faith so pure, as Hebrews said, He was willing to sacrifice his son knowing ful well God would raise him from the dead (and keep his promise)

No once starts with that much faith, but if we allow God to grow it like Abraham did, Our faith can be as strong as him.

But non of the works saved us, we have to be saved FIRST, as Abraham was, TYHEN our faith grows.

 

[gb9]

We all believe Christ is the way to heaven as we all believers here.

If we are salt and light to the world, literally by how we behave, then if we behave
badly this must reflect on what we are inside.

So Paul as Saul tried to find God through the law and only found rebellion and sin.
In Christ he found righteousness and love to the degree he could say be behaved
in a holy, loving, pure, blameless manner to the degree of testifying to it and asking
other to realise what God had done in him and the example he was giving.

It is this language he uses and obvious walk in the Spirit.
So in knowing Christ he found reality and freedom and love overflowing.

So you talk about different gospels, but actually you do not realise we are saying
the same gospel. It is in knowing Christ we are saved, being healed, washed and
forgiven, transformed, born again, becoming a temple of the Holy Spirit.

I think you want to manufacture differences so you have someone as an enemy,
someone to blame for the hurts you suffered as a kid. But you know more than me.
And I hold nothing against you, you are as you are.

news flash peter- anytime someone disagrees with you , you at some point tell them that they are emotionally hurt, or something similar.

we disagree with you on points where you are wrong. based on what you post. we read words and get meaning. the problem is you never look in the mirror, and see that it is the errors in your theology, and all the hyperbole and figurative language you choose to use that is the reason for someone disagreeing with you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, this must be said. I pray people open their eyes, Do not look at me, do not think I am trying to attack you. Just look at what is going on.. Seek Gods advice. And then listen.

You can not say you believe Christ is the way to heaven,

then

1. Deny the power of the cross (God needs your help His work was not all that mattered,, i.e. The cross is not enough)
2. Deny we are saved by faith alone, but Gods needs your holiness to account for salvation.
3. Claim you are saved by God, then claim you must maintain your salvation by maintaining your faith, or your holiness.
Say we are saved by faith, But must maintain that salvation by some act of works., ansd failure to live up to this standard. Will cause salvation to be lost.

Because in ALL of the above, You are not trustin gin God to save you, You are trusting in self. To make yourself able or worthy of salvation So God can allow you in,

 

[garee]

1. If we think that, Then I would ask. Are we saved at all. Why would we say we have faith in God, yet deny it by our actions.. Did we hae faith? According to James, No.
2. Abraham was saved before he did one work. After God declared hi9m righteous,

Hi thanks for the response.

I would offer again according to “whose” work of faith? That of Abraham or God who worked in Abraham and Rehab to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness and not that of their own selves.

Attribuitng Christ's work of faith as alabor of his Love to Abraham or ourselves.. if you follow it to its conclusion it would be to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called heavenward.

The loving commandment not to have the faith of Chrsit as the work of God must bring a work by which we can believe to the salvation of our new souls. It was the purpose of the second chapter not to commit blasphemy by attribeting the work of Chrst faith, to any man

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the “faith of” our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

We do deny Christ every time we sin but he cannot(impossible) deny that he has paid the full wage. That would make him the liar.

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us..If we believe not (no faith), yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.2Ti 2:11

 

[PeterJens]

news flash peter- anytime someone disagrees with you , you at some point tell them that they are emotionally hurt, or something similar.

we disagree with you on points where you are wrong. based on what you post. we read words and get meaning. the problem is you never look in the mirror, and see that it is the errors in your theology, and all the hyperbole and figurative language you choose to use that is the reason for someone disagreeing with you.

gb9 - Theology is partly something you choose to interpret one way or another.

What you definately have not realised is nothing is neutral, and we hold particular beliefs
for very specific reasons which we may be unaware of.

What has surprised me is how accurate my words of knowledge have been proven true.
Ofcourse in your world things only look one way. Now sincerely if you could see things
from my perspective then I would have more respect for your observations.

I do know why you are holding to things the way you do. But because I know does not
mean I will agree with you. I have good reasons for taking a different view.

I used to look at the world the way you do. It is like you are neutral and everything is this
factual plane of ideas, without any interfering elements.

But I know you would send people to hell for eternity to be tortured for their sins, and this
is justice. At the same time, you who do the same sins, get off free because you are forgiven
before you do the sins, while you are doing them and even after you have done them without
repenting. If you can see how unjust this is, you will understand how ludicrous everything else
you say is to me.

I will tell you who I am in my nature. As a kid I did not like fighting because I did not want to
hurt others, I wanted the best, even if I could not find it. As I have learnt about Christ and
the cross, those who reject Him are refuse ready to be burnt, gone, discarded. Why?
Because there is nothing that can be done for them. How well do you know Gods will and heart?
Do you see anything that is vindictive or needing to torture or takes pleasure in suffering, but
rather He brings it to an end?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi thanks for the response.

I would offer again according to “whose” work of faith? That of Abraham or God who worked in Abraham and Rehab to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness and not that of their own selves.

Attribuitng Christ's work of faith as alabor of his Love to Abraham or ourselves.. if you follow it to its conclusion it would be to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called heavenward.

The loving commandment not to have the faith of Chrsit as the work of God must bring a work by which we can believe to the salvation of our new souls. It was the purpose of the second chapter not to commit blasphemy by attribeting the work of Chrst faith, to any man

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the “faith of” our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

We do deny Christ every time we sin but he cannot(impossible) deny that he has paid the full wage. That would make him the liar.

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us..If we believe not (no faith), yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.2Ti 2:11

I see it this way. We have faith in God for salvation, the work of God wee believe in thge one he sent, Because God did the work of salvation. Including drawing us to him, So he gets all the glory,. Then there is faith in God in our daily lives. Both are different, But if we have faith in one area, we should see our faith grow in the other area.

If we do not see it grow. We must ask, Did we havce faiht in the first part.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

gb9 - Theology is partly something you choose to interpret one way or another.

What you definately have not realised is nothing is neutral, and we hold particular beliefs
for very specific reasons which we may be unaware of.

What has surprised me is how accurate my words of knowledge have been proven true.
Ofcourse in your world things only look one way. Now sincerely if you could see things
from my perspective then I would have more respect for your observations.

I do know why you are holding to things the way you do. But because I know does not
mean I will agree with you. I have good reasons for taking a different view.

I used to look at the world the way you do. It is like you are neutral and everything is this

Way to many I's and My's here. When we start puffing ourselves up.. We are not looking to God. And this should give us pause.

However, you are right, Nothing is neutral, it is Gods way, or mans way.. The problem is we have to HUMBLE ourselves (stop talking about I and ME) before we can really know what is Gods way. And what we THINK is Gods way.

 

[PeterJens]

Ok, this must be said. I pray people open their eyes, Do not look at me, do not think I am trying to attack you. Just look at what is going on.. Seek Gods advice. And then listen.

You can not say you believe Christ is the way to heaven,

then

1. Deny the power of the cross (God needs your help His work was not all that mattered,, i.e. The cross is not enough)
2. Deny we are saved by faith alone, but Gods needs your holiness to account for salvation.
3. Claim you are saved by God, then claim you must maintain your salvation by maintaining your faith, or your holiness.
Say we are saved by faith, But must maintain that salvation by some act of works., ansd failure to live up to this standard. Will cause salvation to be lost.

Because in ALL of the above, You are not trustin gin God to save you, You are trusting in self. To make yourself able or worthy of salvation So God can allow you in,

Let us be honest.
Deny the power of the cross - this is an interpretation of this, no more.
Deny saved by faith alone - this is an interpretation of this, no more.
Claim you are saved by God - this is an interpretation of this, no more.

So based on your interpretation of the meaning of these steps you claim some
are lying about the very beliefs of following Christ. No one has these rights to say
they are lying because they are doing exactly what all are called to do.

I am not proud, but take people declaration of faith at face value and praise God
for it, literally.

How has some interpretation of these steps entitled you to disown peoples faith
and reality in Christ when there is nothing to justify such a thing.
That is what the enemy does all the time.

If you cannot see this, you are the very thing you claim you condemn.

Jesus calls us to bless because it is almost impossible to fake, and it brings blessing
on others. Tell people to love one another, and they will probably fail. Tell them to
find fault in everyone in a room, and each will produce a list of 10 points for each
person and they do not even know them.

Sin always crouches at the door to reject others rather than see the best in them.
Judging Gods word in peoples lives is standing in judgement on God himself, a sin in
its own right. Unless there is obvious sin, like here, I will remain silent.

 

[dcontroversal]

Way to many I's and My's here. When we start puffing ourselves up.. We are not looking to God. And this should give us pause.

However, you are right, Nothing is neutral, it is Gods way, or mans way.. The problem is we have to HUMBLE ourselves (stop talking about I and ME) before we can really know what is Gods way. And what we THINK is Gods way.

AMEN.....such is the way of the "workers for" and Pharisees.....they trust more in themselves and their works than JESUS......

 

[PeterJens]

AMEN.....such is the way of the "workers for" and Pharisees.....they trust more in themselves and their works than JESUS......

Believers trust in Christ for everything, even their walk before Him.
It is not possible to walk in the Spirit without Christ.

It is strange how the continual denial of spiritual realities is the only
response, it is like providing alternative statements of what is happening
with people, has to be done, else accepting the testimony of many millions
of believers would overwhelm them with the reality they too can walk like
this and not stay trapped in sin and unresolved issues.

 

[gb9]

Believers trust in Christ for everything, even their walk before Him.
It is not possible to walk in the Spirit without Christ.

It is strange how the continual denial of spiritual realities is the only
response, it is like providing alternative statements of what is happening
with people, has to be done, else accepting the testimony of many millions
of believers would overwhelm them with the reality they too can walk like
this and not stay trapped in sin and unresolved issues.

real reality is this- no one is sinless and perfect.

some of you want to create this fake reality where you are.

you see, since God knows everything about you, every thought you think, don't you think it is best to be totally honest with yourself, because if you are not, then you are trying to hide truth from yourself, truth that God already knows.

 

[JIMBO43]

The only ones with these symptoms are the ones who...

a. Twist, embellish, partially quote, misquote, misapply and or flat lie in a deceptive way to make one say or imply something they have not

b. Push a sinless, self serving works based pseudo salvation

c. Who refuse to acknowledge the above facts which are obvious to all.......

"Cake takers" "workers for" "embellish-ites" yep for sure....!

News alert Ding ding ding dc is the chief false news reporter gossipper...Lol

Anyways i have some news its a sad but true that some demons can stay manifested and totaly insnare the soul to accasionally say a good thing but for most part badness will overcome the captive person..

Think on Brother and i know your in there But i think you need to exercise your demons..

 

[Magenta]

News alert Ding ding ding dc is the chief false news reporter gossipper...Lol

That is not funny. I think you need to have your demons exorcised...

 

[JIMBO43]

Not quite Peter....oh I mean Jim......hard to tell you two apart....You both read in what you want to see and embellish and or take out of context everything that most post....must be that British education....the one defined by Pink Floyd!

ha mate the only thing i see is a fellow christian..devoted to his work...In my book hes prime elect worthy of his wage..