"EIS" OR "DIA" OR "HOTI" ??

[oldhermit]

There is of course nothing wrong with the word "eis". It is the use of "eis" to mean "because of" that seems to be at issue.

Bill Mounce has a web page that shows the treatment of 'eis' through the entire NT. If you are interested, here is the address.

https://billmounce.com/greek-dictionary/biblical-context/1650/εἰς?page=8

 

[DJ2]

The oneness group, says that Acts 2:28 is the same as John 3:16, that it is the way of salvation and that it is a proof text that Jesus is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Because Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Since Peter said b baptized in Jesus name that after receiving the Holy Spirit, that Peter had a revelation that Jesus was all three.

The word "EIs" is fine as you've stated, it just needs to be interpreted in the context of the chapter and the overall context of the Scripture.

What do you mean by "needs to be interpreted", "eis" needs to be translated not interpreted.

 

[oldhermit]

What do you mean by "needs to be interpreted", "eis" needs to be translated not interpreted.

I wish I had a nickle for every time someone on here makes an appeal to "needs to be interpreted in the context." 99.9% of those who charge others to honor the context of a segment of scripture could not find the context of a passage with both eyes and written instructions.

 

[BeyondET]

huh I don't see the (because of) in a version I've been using lately.

Acts 2
38 Simon said to them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you, in the name of the Lord Jesus, for the remission of sins; so that ye may receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Angela53510]

I just want to add that your search for a "translation" that has "because of" instead of "into, in among" (the short definition of "eis" doesn't mean the translation is right. (And thank you to OH for taking the time to write out the full Bauer definition of "eis" so I didn't have to do it! LOL)

Only the Greek is correct, and sometimes we struggle to put the Greek words into English, because of the differences in grammar and syntax. Of course, what the words actually mean in English, is another issue in some cases.

However, in Acts 2:38, there is NO argument that "eis" means "in." When you see a common word being twisted to mean what it does not, then you are probably looking at someone who is so desperate to prove their theology, that they are actually willing to change words to meanings that are not there in the Greek. And that means you are probably involved in a cult.

As someone else pointed out, Luke (along with the writer of Hebrews) was the consummate scholar. Luke and Acts are considered advanced Greek. It is only lately that we have translated from these books in our Greek class. And both passages were extremely challenging. That being said, the example you have in your OP of "eis" in Acts 2:38, is NOT one of those difficult places.

OH, going to check out your link! Bill Mounce is my Greek professor, and we also used his first year Greek text in seminary. He has the most amazing resources for Greek, and offers FREE classes at 3 levels for anyone who wants to study the Bible. (Not talking languages, that is separate!) There are lectures by some of the most outstanding scholars in the world, all of whom are known for orthodoxy. So if you want some half-cocked new revelation, this is not for you! But if you want the truth about the Bible, theology, and many other issues concerning our faith, please check this out!

https://www.biblicaltraining.org/

 

[DJ2]

huh I don't see the (because of) in a version I've been using lately.

Acts 2
38 Simon said to them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you, in the name of the Lord Jesus, for the remission of sins; so that ye may receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Agreed, but is there not even ONE version of the Bible that translates Acts 2:38 as meaning "because of" the forgiveness of your sins?? Even a paraphrased version?

 

[oldhermit]

Agreed, but is there not even ONE version of the Bible that translates Acts 2:38 as meaning "because of" the forgiveness of your sins?? Even a paraphrased version?

I have not really examined the paraphrased versions because they are not translations. They are merely expressions of interpretation and most of it is rather poor. If you are looking for reliability, stay away from paraphrased versions.

 

[trofimus]

There is of course nothing wrong with the word "eis". It is the use of "eis" to mean "because of" that seems to be at issue.

OK, in that case I did not get your thread title and the OP. It looks you are saying Luke made a mistake and "eis" is wrong used in the verse.

To your question then - you can try biblehub.com paralel bibles, if nothing, you can try to google the verse with "because of" in it, if nothing, you can get a list of all existing Bible translations in all world languages and do your study Good luck.

 

[oldhermit]

Agreed, but is there not even ONE version of the Bible that translates Acts 2:38 as meaning "because of" the forgiveness of your sins?? Even a paraphrased version?

Here are three different paraphrased versions on Acts 2:38.
New International Version
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

New Living Translation
Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

GOD'S WORD
Peter answered them, "All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

All of there give a proper rendering of 'eis'.

 

[DJ2]

I just want to add that your search for a "translation" that has "because of" instead of "into, in among" (the short definition of "eis" doesn't mean the translation is right. (And thank you to OH for taking the time to write out the full Bauer definition of "eis" so I didn't have to do it! LOL)

Only the Greek is correct, and sometimes we struggle to put the Greek words into English, because of the differences in grammar and syntax. Of course, what the words actually mean in English, is another issue in some cases.

However, in Acts 2:38, there is NO argument that "eis" means "in." When you see a common word being twisted to mean what it does not, then you are probably looking at someone who is so desperate to prove their theology, that they are actually willing to change words to meanings that are not there in the Greek. And that means you are probably involved in a cult.

As someone else pointed out, Luke (along with the writer of Hebrews) was the consummate scholar. Luke and Acts are considered advanced Greek. It is only lately that we have translated from these books in our Greek class. And both passages were extremely challenging. That being said, the example you have in your OP of "eis" in Acts 2:38, is NOT one of those difficult places.

OH, going to check out your link! Bill Mounce is my Greek professor, and we also used his first year Greek text in seminary. He has the most amazing resources for Greek, and offers FREE classes at 3 levels for anyone who wants to study the Bible. (Not talking languages, that is separate!) There are lectures by some of the most outstanding scholars in the world, all of whom are known for orthodoxy. So if you want some half-cocked new revelation, this is not for you! But if you want the truth about the Bible, theology, and many other issues concerning our faith, please check this out!

https://www.biblicaltraining.org/

I too was rather suspect of the notion that eis meant "because of" mainly because all six versions of the Bible I own does not even suggest such a understanding. Even the Bible they were using did not say it. I thank you and OldHermit for the clear advice.

 

[Johnny_B]

We seem to have gotten off the point. The issue is not what the English word "for" means but what the Greek word "eis" means. The quoted version, CEV does not even use "for" but "so that" so why are we even talking about the word "for"? OldHermit states that defining "eis" as "because of" is wrong. I seem to agree since no Bible uses this translation. I would prefer to lean on the Greek scholars since they seem to agree 100% on not using "because of".

What do you mean by "needs to be interpreted", "eis" needs to be translated not interpreted.

Then please forgive my misunderstanding.

 

[Johnny_B]

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 2:38 Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς, Μετανοήσατε, [φησίν,] καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος.


Greek New Testament 4th edition, Dictionary. εἰς (ἕσω, ἕσ|ωθεν,ὲσ|ώτερος) prep. with acc. into, to; in, at, on, upon, by, near; amount; against; concerning; as; εἰςτό with inf. denotes purpose and sometimes result.

From "The Hermeneutical Spiral" by Grant R. Osborn "Scholars are constantly reading the whole of a doctrine into isolated statements. This is especially true of theologically loaded passages like John 6:37-40, where many scholars see the full-fledged doctrine of predestination, or Acts 2:38, where others read a developed view of baptismal regeneration. We must remember that the biblical authors normally stressed one aspect of a larger dogma to fit individual situations. Doctrine must be based on an accumulation of all biblical passages on a topic. Individual terms or passages relate only to aspects of the larger whole." It applies to the Greek or English translation.

Following that, Julius Mantey writes in their book A Manuel Grammar of the Greek New Testament by Dana & Mantey

Εἰς
​

Root meaning: within, in. It was derived from ἐν and gradually took over its functions, so much so that in Modern Greek ἐν does not occur.In comparison into, in;as εἰσελθεῖν, to go into.
Resultant meaning: with the accusative case: into, unto, to, for. These meanings are very common. Εἰς is used more than seventeen hundred times in the New Testament, and only with the accusative case............Remote meanings:...This use is common in the papyri........(7) Because of Romans 4:20. εἰς δὲ τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ θεοῦ οὐ διεκρίθη τῇ ἀπιστίᾳ, but because of the promise of God he did not waver in unbielf (cf. Matthew 3:11; Mark 2:18; Romans 4:20; Titus 3:14)

When one considers in Acts 2:38 repentance is forceful evidee as self-renunciation and baptism as a public expression of a self-surrender and self-dedication to Christ, which significance it certainly had in the first century, the expression εἰς ἀφεσίν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν may mean for the purpose of the remission of sins.

But if one stresses baptism, without its early Christian import, as a ceremonial means of salvation, he does violence to Christianity as a whole, for one of its striking distinctions from Judaism and Paganism is that it is a religion of salvation by faith while all others teach salvation by works.

The sentence μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα Ἰωνᾶ, κα with this verse we haveὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Ἰωνᾶ in Matthew12:31 and Luke 12:32 is forceful evidence for a casual use of this preposition. What led to their repentance? Of course, it was Jonah's preaching. Matthew 3:11 furnishes future evidence: ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν. Did John baptize that they might repent, or because of repentance? If the former, we have no further Scriptural conformation of it. I the latter, his practice was confirmed and followed by the apostles, and is in full harmony with Christ's demand for inward, genuine righteousness. In connection with this verse we have the testimony of the first-century writer to the effect that John the Baptist baptized people only after they had repented. Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 5, section 2: "Who (John) was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another and piety towards Hod, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing (with water) would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness." (I want to add, Luke 3:8 "He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.9 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”)

ii. Deissmann in Light From the Ancient East gives several convincing quotations from the papyri to prove that πίστὐεινεἰς αὐτὸν meant surrender or submission to. A slave was sold into the name of the god of a temple; i.e., to be a temple servant. G. Milligan agrees with Deissmann that this papyri usage of εἰς αὐτὸν, ​is also found regularly in the New Testament. Thus to believe on or to consider oneself the life-time serene of Jesus.

Manley says that εἰς is always used in the Accusative case, here's what Machen says about Accusative case, in his book, New Testament Greek for Beginners. Accusative case: for direct object, 34; after prepositions expressing motion towards, 82; as subj. of infix., 304, 306, 534; acc. of extent of space and time, 382; of specification, 470.

304 is the only one that applies to Acts 2:38. 304. ​So far, the infinitive has been viewed as a noun. But it is also part of a verb, and apart of a verb it can have not only, as the participle can, adverbial modifies and a direct object, but also, unlike the particle, a subject. The subject of the infinitive is in the accusative case. Example 4 is the only one using εἰς. (4) ταῦτα δὲ εἶπον ὑμῖν εἰς τὸ μὴ γενένθαι ὑμᾶς δούλους τῆς ὰμαρτίας, ​and these things I said to you, with the tendency toward the result that you should not become servants of sin, or and these things I said to you in order that you might not become servants of sin.

Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest who taught Konié Greek at Moody Bible Institute, here's what he had to say that is a quote from Dana & Mantey.

BAPTIZE UNTO REPENTANCE. John the Baptist makes the statement, " I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance" (Matthew 3:11). peter says, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38) The word "unto: signifies "result." For instance, "I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16) The word "for" in the second text has the same meaning. Are we to understand that water baptism as administered by John the Baptist and Peter, resulted in the repentance of those who were the recipients of it, in the face of the fact that repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the unsaved, this repentance being "unto life," that is, resulting in life (Acts 11:18)?

The words "unto" and "for" in Matthew 3:11 and Acts 2:38 are from the Greek preposition εἰς. Dana & Mantey in their excellent treatment of Greek presuppositions based upon the papyri findings, give as one of the uses this word, "because of" This usage is found in Matthew 12:31 where men of Nineveh repented at or becauie of the preaching of Jonah, and in Romans 4:20, where Abraham did not stagger in unbelief, because of the promise of God. The word "stagger" here id from a Greek word which means "to vacillate between two opinions." Thus it was the repentance of those who received John's message which was the cause of their baptism. The same was true of Peter's at Pentecost. John's words were, "I indeed baptize you with water because of repentance," and Peter's, "Repent. everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ because of the remission of sins." That this is the correct translation and interpretation of our texts is also seen in the testimony of Josephus to the effect John the Baptist only baptized people only after they repented: (these are the same quote of Josephus and Dana & Mantey gave)......

Thus, we have the Scriptural meaning of baptism. It is the testimony the person to the fact of his salvation. The only proper recipient of water baptism therefore is one who has received the Lord Jesus as his personal Savior, and in trusting in His precious blood for salvation from sin.

The Greek text thus clears up a difficulty found in the English translation. Baptism is not prerequisite of repentance, much less its cause, but the testimony of the one who has entered the door of salvation. Here's Wuest's translation of Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38 "And Peter said to them, Have a change of mind, that change of mind being accompanied by abhorrence of and sorrow for your deed, and let each of you be baptized upon the ground of your confession of belief in the sum total of all that Jesus Christ is in His glorious Person, this baptismal testimony being in relation to the fact that your sins have been put away, and you shall receive the gratuitous gift of the Holy Spirit,"

I hope you find what you are looking for, God Bless.

 

[DJ2]

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 2:38 Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς, Μετανοήσατε, [φησίν,] καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος.


Greek New Testament 4th edition, Dictionary. εἰς (ἕσω, ἕσ|ωθεν,ὲσ|ώτερος) prep. with acc. into, to; in, at, on, upon, by, near; amount; against; concerning; as; εἰςτό with inf. denotes purpose and sometimes result.

From "The Hermeneutical Spiral" by Grant R. Osborn "Scholars are constantly reading the whole of a doctrine into isolated statements. This is especially true of theologically loaded passages like John 6:37-40, where many scholars see the full-fledged doctrine of predestination, or Acts 2:38, where others read a developed view of baptismal regeneration. We must remember that the biblical authors normally stressed one aspect of a larger dogma to fit individual situations. Doctrine must be based on an accumulation of all biblical passages on a topic. Individual terms or passages relate only to aspects of the larger whole." It applies to the Greek or English translation.

Following that, Julius Mantey writes in their book A Manuel Grammar of the Greek New Testament by Dana & Mantey

Εἰς
​

Root meaning: within, in. It was derived from ἐν and gradually took over its functions, so much so that in Modern Greek ἐν does not occur.In comparison into, in;as εἰσελθεῖν, to go into.
Resultant meaning: with the accusative case: into, unto, to, for. These meanings are very common. Εἰς is used more than seventeen hundred times in the New Testament, and only with the accusative case............Remote meanings:...This use is common in the papyri........(7) Because of Romans 4:20. εἰς δὲ τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ θεοῦ οὐ διεκρίθη τῇ ἀπιστίᾳ, but because of the promise of God he did not waver in unbielf (cf. Matthew 3:11; Mark 2:18; Romans 4:20; Titus 3:14)

When one considers in Acts 2:38 repentance is forceful evidee as self-renunciation and baptism as a public expression of a self-surrender and self-dedication to Christ, which significance it certainly had in the first century, the expression εἰς ἀφεσίν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν may mean for the purpose of the remission of sins.

But if one stresses baptism, without its early Christian import, as a ceremonial means of salvation, he does violence to Christianity as a whole, for one of its striking distinctions from Judaism and Paganism is that it is a religion of salvation by faith while all others teach salvation by works.

The sentence μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα Ἰωνᾶ, κα with this verse we haveὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Ἰωνᾶ in Matthew12:31 and Luke 12:32 is forceful evidence for a casual use of this preposition. What led to their repentance? Of course, it was Jonah's preaching. Matthew 3:11 furnishes future evidence: ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν. Did John baptize that they might repent, or because of repentance? If the former, we have no further Scriptural conformation of it. I the latter, his practice was confirmed and followed by the apostles, and is in full harmony with Christ's demand for inward, genuine righteousness. In connection with this verse we have the testimony of the first-century writer to the effect that John the Baptist baptized people only after they had repented. Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 5, section 2: "Who (John) was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another and piety towards Hod, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing (with water) would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness." (I want to add, Luke 3:8 "He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.9 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”)

ii. Deissmann in Light From the Ancient East gives several convincing quotations from the papyri to prove that πίστὐεινεἰς αὐτὸν meant surrender or submission to. A slave was sold into the name of the god of a temple; i.e., to be a temple servant. G. Milligan agrees with Deissmann that this papyri usage of εἰς αὐτὸν, ​is also found regularly in the New Testament. Thus to believe on or to consider oneself the life-time serene of Jesus.

Manley says that εἰς is always used in the Accusative case, here's what Machen says about Accusative case, in his book, New Testament Greek for Beginners. Accusative case: for direct object, 34; after prepositions expressing motion towards, 82; as subj. of infix., 304, 306, 534; acc. of extent of space and time, 382; of specification, 470.

304 is the only one that applies to Acts 2:38. 304. ​So far, the infinitive has been viewed as a noun. But it is also part of a verb, and apart of a verb it can have not only, as the participle can, adverbial modifies and a direct object, but also, unlike the particle, a subject. The subject of the infinitive is in the accusative case. Example 4 is the only one using εἰς. (4) ταῦτα δὲ εἶπον ὑμῖν εἰς τὸ μὴ γενένθαι ὑμᾶς δούλους τῆς ὰμαρτίας, ​and these things I said to you, with the tendency toward the result that you should not become servants of sin, or and these things I said to you in order that you might not become servants of sin.

Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest who taught Konié Greek at Moody Bible Institute, here's what he had to say that is a quote from Dana & Mantey.

BAPTIZE UNTO REPENTANCE. John the Baptist makes the statement, " I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance" (Matthew 3:11). peter says, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38) The word "unto: signifies "result." For instance, "I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16) The word "for" in the second text has the same meaning. Are we to understand that water baptism as administered by John the Baptist and Peter, resulted in the repentance of those who were the recipients of it, in the face of the fact that repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the unsaved, this repentance being "unto life," that is, resulting in life (Acts 11:18)?

The words "unto" and "for" in Matthew 3:11 and Acts 2:38 are from the Greek preposition εἰς. Dana & Mantey in their excellent treatment of Greek presuppositions based upon the papyri findings, give as one of the uses this word, "because of" This usage is found in Matthew 12:31 where men of Nineveh repented at or becauie of the preaching of Jonah, and in Romans 4:20, where Abraham did not stagger in unbelief, because of the promise of God. The word "stagger" here id from a Greek word which means "to vacillate between two opinions." Thus it was the repentance of those who received John's message which was the cause of their baptism. The same was true of Peter's at Pentecost. John's words were, "I indeed baptize you with water because of repentance," and Peter's, "Repent. everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ because of the remission of sins." That this is the correct translation and interpretation of our texts is also seen in the testimony of Josephus to the effect John the Baptist only baptized people only after they repented: (these are the same quote of Josephus and Dana & Mantey gave)......

Thus, we have the Scriptural meaning of baptism. It is the testimony the person to the fact of his salvation. The only proper recipient of water baptism therefore is one who has received the Lord Jesus as his personal Savior, and in trusting in His precious blood for salvation from sin.

The Greek text thus clears up a difficulty found in the English translation. Baptism is not prerequisite of repentance, much less its cause, but the testimony of the one who has entered the door of salvation. Here's Wuest's translation of Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38 "And Peter said to them, Have a change of mind, that change of mind being accompanied by abhorrence of and sorrow for your deed, and let each of you be baptized upon the ground of your confession of belief in the sum total of all that Jesus Christ is in His glorious Person, this baptismal testimony being in relation to the fact that your sins have been put away, and you shall receive the gratuitous gift of the Holy Spirit,"

I hope you find what you are looking for, God Bless.

Thank you for your reply. Do you know the name of the Bible version that uses Mr. Wuest's translation of Acts 2:38. I would like to read it in context with the rest of the chapter.

 

[oldhermit]

Thank you for your reply. Do you know the name of the Bible version that uses Mr. Wuest's translation of Acts 2:38. I would like to read it in context with the rest of the chapter.

You may want to disregard what he says about the so-called Wuest NT. This is nothing more than a paraphrase, and a poor one at that. I am preparing a response to his post at present. It may take a while because there is much here that needs to challenged.

 

[Johnny_B]

Thank you for your reply. Do you know the name of the Bible version that uses Mr. Wuest's translation of Acts 2:38. I would like to read it in context with the rest of the chapter.

I did not know that you could buy it separately from the Greek word Studies set but here it is The New Testament an expanded translation.

Acts 2:37-41 Now, having heard this they're stung to the heart with poignant sorrow. And they said to Peter and the other apostles, What shall we do, men, brothers? And Peter said to them, Have a change of mind, that change of mind being accompanied by abhorrence of and sorrow for your deed, and let each of you be baptized upon the ground of your confession of belief in the sum total of all that Jesus Christ is in His glorious Person, this baptismal testimony being in relation to the fact that your sins have been put away, and you shall receive the gratuitous gift of the Holy Spirit, for to you is the promise and to your children and all who are at a distance, as many as the Lord our God shall with a divine summons call to himself. And with many other words he solemnly affirmed, and kept on exhorting them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. Then those who received his words with approval were immersed. And there were added to their number that day about three thousand souls.

 

[oldhermit]

Friend, your research on 'eis' is not only very selective but also very unschollarly and misrepresentative.

Εἰς
​

Root meaning: within, in. It was derived from ἐν and gradually took over its functions, so much so that in Modern Greek ἐν does not occur. In comparison into, in;as εἰσελθεῖν, to go into.
Resultant meaning: with the accusative case: into, unto, to, for. These meanings are very common. Εἰς is used more than seventeen hundred times in the New Testament, and only with the accusative case............Remote meanings:...This use is common in the papyri........(7) Because of Romans 4:20. εἰς δὲ τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ θεοῦ οὐ διεκρίθη τῇ ἀπιστίᾳ, but because of the promise of God he did not waver in unbielf (cf. Matthew 3:11; Mark 2:18; Romans 4:20; Titus 3:14)

There is not one single English translation of which I am aware (and I have examined dozens) that translates εἰς as 'because of' in either Romans 4:20, Matthew 3:11, or Titus 3:14. Each of these texts are represented by forward motion movement or with the use of 'at,' but never 'because of.'' This is blatant and deliberate misrepresentation. Also, εἰς does not even appear in the text of Mark 2:18. Here, the word is Διὰ which is commonly translated as in, by, or through.

The sentence

μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα Ἰωνᾶ, κα with this verse we haveὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Ἰωνᾶ in Matthew12:31 and Luke 12:32 is forceful evidence for a casual use of this preposition. What led to their repentance? Of course, it was Jonah's preaching. Matthew 3:11 furnishes future evidence: ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν. Did John baptize that they might repent, or because of repentance? If the former, we have no further Scriptural conformation of it. I the latter, his practice was confirmed and followed by the apostles, and is in full harmony with Christ's demand for inward, genuine righteousness. In connection with this verse we have the testimony of the first-century writer to the effect that John the Baptist baptized people only after they had repented. Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 5, section 2: "Who (John) was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another and piety towards Hod, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing (with water) would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness." (I want to add, Luke 3:8 "He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.9 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”)

There is no such thing as the 'casual use' of εἰς. This is an idea that was fabricated by A.T. Robertson in an attempt to change the language of the text. His claim is completely without evidence and is by his own admission, completely driven by his soteriology rather than by any rules of grammar. There are a few like Monty who finally agreed with him but the greater body of Greek scholarship regard this as complete foolishness. See what such scholars as Mounce, Beauer, McCord, Crouch, Wallace, Bruce, Clark, Moule, Block, and a host of others who are of Roberson's class who stand diametrically opposed to his fabricated use of εἰς and his attempt to reconstruct this text, and they oppose Robertson on the basis of the rules of grammar.

Again, no translation offers 'because of' as an option in Matthew12:31, Luke 12:32. The word commonly used here for εἰς is 'at' and properly so. The preaching of Jonah was the focal point of their repentance.

ii. D

eissmann in Light From the Ancient East gives several convincing quotations from the papyri to prove that

πίστὐεινεἰς αὐτὸν meant surrender or submission to. A slave was sold into the name of the god of a temple; i.e., to be a temple servant. G. Milligan agrees with Deissmann that this papyri usage of εἰς αὐτὸν, ​is also found regularly in the New Testament. Thus to believe on or to consider oneself the life-time serene of Jesus.

This is true but, you are completely misunderstanding what is being said here. In the classical style of the first century language the phrase "εἰς τὸ ὄνομα" - "into the name of" was often used as a legal term. This expression is found among ancient legal documents that recorded the transfer of property. For example, if one purchased a section of land, or a slace, or a dwelling for example, a title transfer would be drawn up to show that this property was now εἰς τὸ ὄνομα - in the name of - the new owner. When Jesus commanded his disciples to preach the gospel to every creature and baptize them εἰς τὸ ὄνομα the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, what he is commanding them to do is to baptize them into the possession of God. Christians are the objects of a property transfer - "out of the kingdom of darkness and into his marvelous light." Baptism then is a property transfer. This same language is used in Acts 2:38. Peter commanded those present to be baptized ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι - into the name of - thus into the possession of Jesus Christ.
You may want to see Wallace on this point.

Manley says that

εἰς is always used in the Accusative case, here's what Machen says about Accusative case, in his book, New Testament Greek for Beginners. Accusative case: for direct object, 34; after prepositions expressing motion towards, 82; as subj. of infix., 304, 306, 534; acc. of extent of space and time, 382; of specification, 470.

304 is the only one that applies to Acts 2:38. 304. ​So far, the infinitive has been viewed as a noun. But it is also part of a verb, and apart of a verb it can have not only, as the participle can, adverbial modifies and a direct object, but also, unlike the particle, a subject. The subject of the infinitive is in the accusative case. Example 4 is the only one using εἰς. (4) ταῦτα δὲ εἶπον ὑμῖν εἰς τὸ μὴ γενένθαι ὑμᾶς δούλους τῆς ὰμαρτίας, ​and these things I said to you, with the tendency toward the result that you should not become servants of sin, or and these things I said to you in order that you might not become servants of sin.

Yes, εἰς is ALWAYS in the accusative case in the NT. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest who taught Konié Greek at Moody Bible Institute, here's what he had to say that is a quote from Dana & Mantey.

BAPTIZE UNTO REPENTANCE. John the Baptist makes the statement, " I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance" (Matthew 3:11). peter says, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38) The word "unto: signifies "result." For instance, "I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16) The word "for" in the second text has the same meaning. Are we to understand that water baptism as administered by John the Baptist and Peter, resulted in the repentance of those who were the recipients of it, in the face of the fact that repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the unsaved, this repentance being "unto life," that is, resulting in life (Acts 11:18)?

Yes, εἰς points forward to a result, never backward to a causation. The result is the forgiveness of sin. See Beauer.

The words "unto" and "for" in Matthew 3:11 and Acts 2:38 are from the Greek preposition εἰς. Dana & Mantey in their excellent treatment of Greek presuppositions based upon the papyri findings, give as one of the uses this word, "because of" This usage is found in Matthew 12:31 where men of Nineveh repented at or becauie of the preaching of Jonah, and in Romans 4:20, where Abraham did not stagger in unbelief, because of the promise of God. The word "stagger" here id from a Greek word which means "to vacillate between two opinions." Thus it was the repentance of those who received John's message which was the cause of their baptism. The same was true of Peter's at Pentecost. John's words were, "I indeed baptize you with water because of repentance," and Peter's, "Repent. everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ because of the remission of sins." That this is the correct translation and interpretation of our texts is also seen in the testimony of Josephus to the effect John the Baptist only baptized people only after they repented: (these are the same quote of Josephus and Dana & Mantey gave)......

I have already adressed this earlier. The proper rendering for εἰς in Matt 12:31 is 'at' not 'because of' and you will not find a schollar anywhere who would dare place his reputation on the line to translate this as 'because of' in any NT translation.

 

[DJ2]

I did not know that you could buy it separately from the Greek word Studies set but here it is The New Testament an expanded translation.

Acts 2:37-41 Now, having heard this they're stung to the heart with poignant sorrow. And they said to Peter and the other apostles, What shall we do, men, brothers? And Peter said to them, Have a change of mind, that change of mind being accompanied by abhorrence of and sorrow for your deed, and let each of you be baptized upon the ground of your confession of belief in the sum total of all that Jesus Christ is in His glorious Person, this baptismal testimony being in relation to the fact that your sins have been put away, and you shall receive the gratuitous gift of the Holy Spirit, for to you is the promise and to your children and all who are at a distance, as many as the Lord our God shall with a divine summons call to himself. And with many other words he solemnly affirmed, and kept on exhorting them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. Then those who received his words with approval were immersed. And there were added to their number that day about three thousand souls.

My ignorance may be showing but is there a Bible version that uses Mr. Wuest's version of this verse? I may not be explaining myself correctly but I would like to be able to read this verse as part of a Bible, not as a comment.

 

[Johnny_B]

Friend, your research on 'eis' is not only very selective but also very unschollarly and misrepresentative.

There is not one single English translation of which I am aware (and I have examined dozens) that translates εἰς as 'because of' in either Romans 4:20, Matthew 3:11, or Titus 3:14. Each of these texts are represented by forward motion movement or with the use of 'at,' but never 'because of.'' This is blatant and deliberate misrepresentation. Also, εἰς does not even appear in the text of Mark 2:18. Here, the word is Διὰ which is commonly translated as in, by, or through. [/FONT][/SIZE]


There is no such thing as the 'casual use' of εἰς. This is an idea that was fabricated by A.T. Robertson in an attempt to change the language of the text. His claim is completely without evidence and is by his own admission, completely driven by his soteriology rather than by any rules of grammar. There are a few like Monty who finally agreed with him but the greater body of Greek scholarship regard this as complete foolishness. See what such scholars as Mounce, Beauer, McCord, Crouch, Wallace, Bruce, Clark, Moule, Block, and a host of others who are of Roberson's class who stand diametrically opposed to his fabricated use of εἰς and his attempt to reconstruct this text, and they oppose Robertson on the basis of the rules of grammar.

Again, no translation offers 'because of' as an option in Matthew12:31, Luke 12:32. The word commonly used here for εἰς is 'at' and properly so. The preaching of Jonah was the focal point of their repentance.


This is true but, you are completely misunderstanding what is being said here. In the classical style of the first century language the phrase "εἰς τὸ ὄνομα" - "into the name of" was often used as a legal term. This expression is found among ancient legal documents that recorded the transfer of property. For example, if one purchased a section of land, or a slace, or a dwelling for example, a title transfer would be drawn up to show that this property was now εἰς τὸ ὄνομα - in the name of - the new owner. When Jesus commanded his disciples to preach the gospel to every creature and baptize them εἰς τὸ ὄνομα the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, what he is commanding them to do is to baptize them into the possession of God. Christians are the objects of a property transfer - "out of the kingdom of darkness and into his marvelous light." Baptism then is a property transfer. This same language is used in Acts 2:38. Peter commanded those present to be baptized ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι - into the name of - thus into the possession of Jesus Christ.
You may want to see Wallace on this point.


Yes, εἰς is ALWAYS in the accusative case in the NT. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.


Yes, εἰς points forward to a result, never backward to a causation. The result is the forgiveness of sin. See Beauer.


I have already adressed this earlier. The proper rendering for εἰς in Matt 12:31 is 'at' not 'because of' and you will not find a schollar anywhere who would dare place his reputation on the line to translate this as 'because of' in any NT translation.

You really don't know me and your pride of your knowledge of the Greek has blinded your judgement. I never said anything or came to any conclusion on any of it, yes I added Luke 3:7-9, but it had nothing to do with the Greek, only that John's baptism required fruits of repentance. All I did was supply the information that were in those books that I have, that's how far my selectiveness was about the information on the word [FONT=sbl greek, sbl greek, Lucida Grande, Lucida Unicode, Arial Unicode]εἰς [/FONT]I'm sorry if it went again what you addressed, because I never read what you posted.

So I'm sorry you think that I would do that, but all I tried to do was help, if Greek is your department on this site maybe you should send every new member a memo saying that, because I did not no one else is supposed to say anything about the Greek here, if that's the case. Then I'd say start your own site that all about your Greek knowledge. Other wise I'm going to post what I have and if you have other information than actual Greek scholars that have written book and have access to papyri of the Greek. Then write a book showing the world how they are wrong and you are right. Again your problem is not with me.

 

[Johnny_B]

My ignorance may be showing but is there a Bible version that uses Mr. Wuest's version of this verse? I may not be explaining myself correctly but I would like to be able to read this verse as part of a Bible, not as a comment.

Yes if you hit the blue letters that say The New Testament an expanded translation, it will take you to Amazon, were you can get the New Testament translation. I just clicked on it to make sure it's working.

 

[oldhermit]

You really don't know me and your pride of your knowledge of the Greek has blinded your judgement. I never said anything or came to any conclusion on any of it, yes I added Luke 3:7-9, but it had nothing to do with the Greek, only that John's baptism required fruits of repentance. All I did was supply the information that were in those books that I have, that's how far my selectiveness was about the information on the word εἰς I'm sorry if it went again what you addressed, because I never read what you posted.

So I'm sorry you think that I would do that, but all I tried to do was help, if Greek is your department on this site maybe you should send every new member a memo saying that, because I did not no one else is supposed to say anything about the Greek here, if that's the case. Then I'd say start your own site that all about your Greek knowledge. Other wise I'm going to post what I have and if you have other information than actual Greek scholars that have written book and have access to papyri of the Greek. Then write a book showing the world how they are wrong and you are right. Again your problem is not with me.

If I have misjudge you, I do apologize. It looked to me like what you were doing was attempting to make a case for the abuse of εἰς. Some of the evidences you presented are questionable at best and those that are not are terribly misrepresented. If you are going to research the use of εἰς, or any other word in Greek, I recommend you do so from such men who are the tops in their fields and gather the collective consensus of the full body of scholarship on the subject. There is simply no such thing as a casual use of εἰς.