Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[eternally-gratefull]

Just feel free to continue in iniquity, without repentance, and see how long it takes for you to quench the Spirit and move into unbelief.

Scripture disagrees with you..

As John said, A child of God can not continue in sin, because his spirit is in him.. He who continues in sin, has never seen God or known him.

Stop all your focus on sin, and laws. And try to focus on God and others. It would do you a world of Good.

An antichrist is a person who is against Christ, A person who has no faith in Christ is against him, This an antichrist.

But do not listen to me, listen to John.


[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

If you do not have faith, You deny.. period

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My detractors say its all "ok". No more harm can come our way once we believe Christ. And they are right. But they are also wrong. Because to believe Christ is more than a simple confession. It's also making Him Lord. Loving Him. And loving Him means obedience. And its this part that they violently reject as works. They are happy with justification, but don't really want any part of sanctification.

Please. do show us where we have come out and said these things. Who is it that does these things?

We have post after post of all of us teaching how important sanctification is, How important it is to live a life of Christ, How important it is to deny self.

Yet here you are just like your buddies denying it. Then you want to try to show yourself as a teacher and expect people to listen to you?



You people and your slander, just amazes me,, But its ok, One day you will stand in front of God, and you will not be able to slander anyone anymore.

 

[JohnTalmid]

The jews tried this and failed.

Try loving others, like God loved you. And all these things will be added to you. and you will fulfill all things also.

I am afraid as people we stick to much emphasis on laws and regulations and religion and tradition and etc etc.

And not enough on, Ok, who is around me today that I can serve, Who needs my love, Who is God trying to bring to me to serve me. Who is around me who needs god.

If we did more of this, and less focus on things which only cause us to focus on self (laws etc) we will be so much more like Christ, So much more blessed. and so much less self righteous and proud .

The Jews?
They heard the good news and they too stumbled on the rock. You stumble by not considering the law! Lawlessness is the reason Yeshua rejected them at the gate. Wormwood is literally a curse for not listening to His Instruction.

Heb. 6
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience,

You listen but do not hear because if you heard you would obey out of love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Jews?
They heard the good news and they too stumbled on the rock. You stumble by not considering the law! Lawlessness is the reason Yeshua rejected them at the gate. Wormwood is literally a curse for not listening to His Instruction.

Heb. 6
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience,

You listen but do not hear because if you heard you would obey out of love.

I disagree, the Jews rejected Christ, because they thought they were righteous by the law. Christ told them otherwise, and this made them angry. Stephen told them the same, and they Stoned him, and a man names Saul took this anger and went out to kill and murder Christians until God knocked him to the ground, and confronted him.

If they listened to the law. An listened to the prophets they would have received Christ with open arms, But like far to many people. they put the emphasis on the law the wrong way, and did not see it for what it was.

 

[Chris1975]

Scripture disagrees with you..

As John said, A child of God can not continue in sin, because his spirit is in him.. He who continues in sin, has never seen God or known him. <Agreed. Don't know why you think I disagree with this. A believer cannot continue in sin. He by the Spirit puts to death the misdeeds of the body. If he slips, he is quick to confess and repent. Therein lies the problem for my detractors. For if someone says they believe yet is in rebellion towards God by continuing in sin, then I am accused of being too "sin" focused. I'm told that it was all done at the cross, once for all. Anything more is works. Get the picture?

Stop all your focus on sin, and laws. And try to focus on God and others. It would do you a world of Good. When have I been focused on the laws? I put no more emphasis on sin that what is written in the holy scriptures. In the Net Testament. By Jesus Christ himself, and those who have walked with him. You yourself have just quoted John above. I wonder if you would have told the Apostle John "off" in those days if you had to have read his words then?

An antichrist is a person who is against Christ, A person who has no faith in Christ is against him, This an antichrist.
You are missing my point, and I have covered it earlier in this thread. You have quoted those who have left us and were never really with us. The bible defined them as antichrist in the preceding verses. HOWEVER, the topic in this thread are believers who have fallen away (left the faith). There is a distinction. One says they were NEVER with us. The other says they have Fallen Away from the faith.

But do not listen to me, listen to John.


[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

If you do not have faith, You deny.. period

As above........

 

[gb9]

Please. do show us where we have come out and said these things. Who is it that does these things?

We have post after post of all of us teaching how important sanctification is, How important it is to live a life of Christ, How important it is to deny self.

Yet here you are just like your buddies denying it. Then you want to try to show yourself as a teacher and expect people to listen to you?



You people and your slander, just amazes me,, But its ok, One day you will stand in front of God, and you will not be able to slander anyone anymore.

they scold us about not following the thread, not reading their posts, etc......... yet they ignore everytime we talk about sin, and we take it serious, and true believers will lead a Godly lifestyle...........

they only want to lecture and brag about their ( self ) righteousness.

 

[Chris1975]

I disagree, the Jews rejected Christ, because they thought they were righteous by the law. Christ told them otherwise, and this made them angry. Stephen told them the same, and they Stoned him, and a man names Saul took this anger and went out to kill and murder Christians until God knocked him to the ground, and confronted him.

If they listened to the law. An listened to the prophets they would have received Christ with open arms, But like far to many people. they put the emphasis on the law the wrong way, and did not see it for what it was.

You keep on bringing up the law in the discussion. And then go ahead and imply that we are bringing up the law. And we are not.

Can I say it again. Once more.

We are saved by Grace through Faith, not of ourselves, its a gift from God. ------> we believe this OK. Now consider it established.
We are not saved by upholding the law ----------> we believe this OK. Now consider it established.

Now that we are Justified by Grace through faith, we move on to Sanctification. What was done on the inside by God's Spirit (rebirth) then gets worked through into our conduct in the world (Sanctification/Holiness).

Now if a believer rejects Sanctification - sees no need to conduct himself in any holy manner whatsoever, has no regard to repentance from sins, then sin remains his master.

He has to by the Spirit, put to death the misdeeds of the body. ------->scriptural.

If the believer doesn't believe this is necessary, then sin remains his master, and he serves the flesh.

This leads the believer away from God (unrepentant sin),, to the point where they no longer believe in the promises of God. They become an unbeliever.

They no longer have salvation.

The bible says so.

 

[Chris1975]

they scold us about not following the thread, not reading their posts, etc......... yet they ignore everytime we talk about sin, and we take it serious, and true believers will lead a Godly lifestyle...........

they only want to lecture and brag about their ( self ) righteousness.

Where?.......

 

[Chris1975]

Unscriptural. Please post scriptures proving that our unbelief can lead to salvation.

Still waiting for DCONT......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As John said, A child of God can not continue in sin, because his spirit is in him.. He who continues in sin, has never seen God or known him. <Agreed. Don't know why you think I disagree with this. A believer cannot continue in sin. He by the Spirit puts to death the misdeeds of the body. If he slips, he is quick to confess and repent. Therein lies the problem for my detractors. For if someone says they believe yet is in rebellion towards God by continuing in sin, then I am accused of being too "sin" focused. I'm told that it was all done at the cross, once for all. Anything more is works. Get the picture

Just feel free to continue in iniquity, without repentance, and see how long it takes for you to quench the Spirit and move into unbelief.

These two points seem to contradict itself.. If you really believed what you said in red. You would not even contemplate what you said in black. Because it would never happen.

also, This is why I think you are too sin focused..

You are missing my point, and I have covered it earlier in this thread. You have quoted those who have left us and were never really with us. The bible defined them as antichrist in the preceding verses. HOWEVER, the topic in this thread are believers who have fallen away (left the faith). There is a distinction. One says they were NEVER with us. The other says they have Fallen Away from the faith.

To me they are the same,, If you leave the faith, You have denied christ, I wouldl hope I have tried to show that in my posts. If I failed. please forgive me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

they scold us about not following the thread, not reading their posts, etc......... yet they ignore everytime we talk about sin, and we take it serious, and true believers will lead a Godly lifestyle...........

they only want to lecture and brag about their ( self ) righteousness.

we will see if he actually shows us where we have said those things, so his accusations hold water.. Or ignores it like most do..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You keep on bringing up the law in the discussion. And then go ahead and imply that we are bringing up the law. And we are not.

Do you even read?

How long are we going to trust in men and despise the instruction of Elohim and Messiah? Kingdom principal is not Jewish or Baptist friends it is Instruction with no condemnation. It is the no condemnation part our religious have stumbled. They move the marker stones and by their fleshly perspective seek heavenly ordinance. They will perish in their sin as Sadusees. If you are sad because of sin you will rejoice. Though sin is housed inside your flesh you have been born of Elohim to guard His command and testimonies of Messiah. As such we are not only called by witnesses to the cross and resurrection of Messiah. We are also called to teach the Kingdom rightousness of the Instruction of Elohim. This we know is made for the wicked and deceptive men teach it is a curse because they are cursed for ignoring Elohim and hating His wisdom. Do not think He came to abolish the Torah of Elohim. He filled it making a new man to those who have heard. Hearing should lead us to obey out of love and through practice gaining understanding not perfection because we are perfected through love not obedience. Elohim despised those who ignore wisdom and scorns His way. He bestows favor and love on those who seek heavenly ordinance of Elohim Messiah through love of Torah. Torahlessness will be punished with drinking wormwood and I tell you they already drink it on both sides.

This post is ALL LAW
Can I say it again. Once more.

We are saved by Grace through Faith, not of ourselves, its a gift from God. ------> we believe this OK. Now consider it established.
We are not saved by upholding the law ----------> we believe this OK. Now consider it established.

Now that we are Justified by Grace through faith, we move on to Sanctification. What was done on the inside by God's Spirit (rebirth) then gets worked through into our conduct in the world (Sanctification/Holiness).

Now if a believer rejects Sanctification - sees no need to conduct himself in any holy manner whatsoever, has no regard to repentance from sins, then sin remains his master.

He has to by the Spirit, put to death the misdeeds of the body. ------->scriptural.

If the believer doesn't believe this is necessary, then sin remains his master, and he serves the flesh.

This leads the believer away from God (unrepentant sin),, to the point where they no longer believe in the promises of God. They become an unbeliever.

They no longer have salvation.

The bible says so.[/QUOTE]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

correction..

Just realized my last post. I erased to much..lol

This post is all law.

How long are we going to trust in men and despise the instruction of Elohim and Messiah? Kingdom principal is not Jewish or Baptist friends it is Instruction with no condemnation. It is the no condemnation part our religious have stumbled. They move the marker stones and by their fleshly perspective seek heavenly ordinance. They will perish in their sin as Sadusees. If you are sad because of sin you will rejoice. Though sin is housed inside your flesh you have been born of Elohim to guard His command and testimonies of Messiah. As such we are not only called by witnesses to the cross and resurrection of Messiah. We are also called to teach the Kingdom rightousness of the Instruction of Elohim. This we know is made for the wicked and deceptive men teach it is a curse because they are cursed for ignoring Elohim and hating His wisdom. Do not think He came to abolish the Torah of Elohim. He filled it making a new man to those who have heard. Hearing should lead us to obey out of love and through practice gaining understanding not perfection because we are perfected through love not obedience. Elohim despised those who ignore wisdom and scorns His way. He bestows favor and love on those who seek heavenly ordinance of Elohim Messiah through love of Torah. Torahlessness will be punished with drinking wormwood and I tell you they already drink it on both sides.

 

[PeterJens]

If the believer doesn't believe this is necessary, then sin remains his master, and he serves the flesh.

This leads the believer away from God (unrepentant sin),, to the point where they no longer believe in the promises of God. They become an unbeliever.

They no longer have salvation.

The bible says so.

The loosing of faith through sin is a very real experience for many.
Some clergy confess they spend years in unbelief, but do not know why.
I think the reality is the sin they leave unresolved that deadens their relationship.

 

[PeterJens]

they scold us about not following the thread, not reading their posts, etc......... yet they ignore everytime we talk about sin, and we take it serious, and true believers will lead a Godly lifestyle...........
they only want to lecture and brag about their ( self ) righteousness.

What is confusing is some believe they no longer need to repent, confess and feel sorrow for
sin to any degree after coming to faith.

They then claim they take sin seriously while declaring they sin daily and in innumerable ways
which they are aware of and do nothing about.

It might suggest the two positions are not adding up at all, and they are lying, saying one thing
and doing another. But once you accept you lie, why not make it really worthwhile, a wopper.

What is even more enlightening is how they lie continually about what others are saying, even
when it is written right infront of them. It is like their brains are just wired up wrong and they
do not see or read what is being said. Like some will say we believe 99% of the same theology
and then say we have no clue what they believe. Well if you agree on 99% it is pretty much
identitical. But to say that is to make them unsaved, unbelievers doomed to hell, which they
will rarely admit their opponents are.

This strikes me as compartmentalised thinking, where each argument exists by itself but does
not actually link up with the whole, so they can say opposite things within a few sentences
and not realise it.

A classic is we are saved by Christ alone and we do nothing, except choose Christ or reject Him
which would make us guilty and worthy of hell, as sin has been removed from salvation issues,
but we still take sin seriously.

Or you are saved by believing in Christ for the forgiveness of sins, but if you limit this to passed
sin, that is unbelief therefore not real faith, so you are not saved.

You did read this caviate in scripture didn't you? No. Well there is always a queue at the pearly
gates for fraudantly given salvation promises, which are cancelled because constraints were applied.

The fact they even talk like this shows me they do not know Christ. This is just legalists guilt
playing havoc with their ideas about God, with no relationship and love to put it into perspective.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So (according to your doctrine) the seed which 1 Peter 1:23 says is incorruptible is really corruptible :roll eyes:

Did you actually read through my post? Or just take a snippet?

Yes, I read through the whole thing and I am not going to argue with you as it is not good for my heart. Suffice it to say I disagree with you and I pray God will bring increase to your heart concerning this issue.

 

[dcontroversal]

Unscriptural. Please post scriptures proving that our unbelief can lead to salvation.

Never said that nor implied that...maybe you should pay attention to what is said.......instead of reading in and or embellishing what I said.....now try again....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

IF we believe NOT, he ABIDES FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF <---THIS is SPOKEN and directed at BELIEVERS and falls under the banner of


I did not say unbelief leads to salvation and your response is just another in a long line of responses from deceptive people such as yourself!

And if your going to quote me give the whole quote instead of deceptively taking what I say out of context...

NOTHING = NOT ONE THING

IF we believe NOT, he ABIDES FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF <---THIS is SPOKEN and directed at BELIEVERS and falls under the banner of

NOTHING (NOT ONE THING) can separate us from the LOVE of CHRIST and HE WILL FINISH what HE STARTED!

SEE...the problem is simple....you cannot honestly address the word NOTHING as applied above....why....because it destroys and negates your ideology......end of story!

 

[dcontroversal]

Still waiting for DCONT......

Never said that or implied that...and this even further proves how deceptive you are.......

Originally Posted by Chris1975

Unscriptural. Please post scriptures proving that our unbelief can lead to salvation.

MY POST....show where I said what you implied....man.....you are very, very deceptive.....


NOTHING = NOT ONE THING

IF we believe NOT, he ABIDES FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF <---THIS is SPOKEN and directed at BELIEVERS and falls under the banner of

NOTHING (NOT ONE THING) can separate us from the LOVE of CHRIST and HE WILL FINISH what HE STARTED!

SEE...the problem is simple....you cannot honestly address the word NOTHING as applied above....why....because it destroys and negates your ideology......end of story!

 

[dcontroversal]

they scold us about not following the thread, not reading their posts, etc......... yet they ignore everytime we talk about sin, and we take it serious, and true believers will lead a Godly lifestyle...........

they only want to lecture and brag about their ( self ) righteousness.

It becomes more obvious who leads him every day....very, very deceptive....he takes a partial quote, attributes things not said and implies something not said and then completely cuts off the quote and flat lies about what I said......ONLY 1 would lead someone to be so deceptive and we all know who that is......

 

[dcontroversal]

Please. do show us where we have come out and said these things. Who is it that does these things?

We have post after post of all of us teaching how important sanctification is, How important it is to live a life of Christ, How important it is to deny self.

Yet here you are just like your buddies denying it. Then you want to try to show yourself as a teacher and expect people to listen to you?



You people and your slander, just amazes me,, But its ok, One day you will stand in front of God, and you will not be able to slander anyone anymore.

Their slander, accusations and deceitful embellishments of what we actually say or impy knows no bounds.....