Not By Works

[Ariel82]

You come across somewhat angry? Just saying...

Here's a thought, why don't you say what you love about PeterJens, I mean keep it positive, kind of thing?

When he says something I like, then I "like" his posts.

Peterjens, knows I love him and he doesn't need to have puffed up false assurances.

I do not like his constant "observations" of others based on false assumptions.

Why fed into the lies of a made up world, when Jesus calls us to face His reality?

 

[Ariel82]

Yes but we can put it across politely. There really is a difference. We put things across politely when our 'intention' is to share opinions or views, in agreement or disagreement.

I will take words spoken from an honest heart over false "politeness" any day.

There is a line I will not cross: I will not judge another's salvation or heart.

However, to add words like "in my opinion" and call it "polite" is just a waste of time.

 

[ForthAngel]

I will take words spoken from an honest heart over "politeness" any day.

5 A man who flatters his neighbor
spreads a net for his feet.

23 Whoever rebukes a man will afterward find more favor
than he who flatters with his tongue.

28 A lying tongue hates its victims,
and a flattering mouth works ruin.

 

[rily51jean]

In Acts 1:1-5, where Jesus told the apostles to stay in Jerusalem, until after they received the promise of the Father, i.e. the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when that happened, (Acts 2:1-21) Acts 2:4,and 8 the apostles began to speak the word of God in different languages, and when the multitude of Jews (Vs. 5 who were Jews by residence, in Jerusalem, and were from other countries, and had converted to YHVH) heard them, they were amazed because they knew that (Vs. 7) the "Galileans", the apostles, originally couldn't speak to them in their own languages,(Vs. 8) the Parthians heard it in their own language, the Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamians, Judaeans, Cappadocians, and all those named in Vs. 10-11 all heard the Holy Spirit speaking in their own native languages, which they grew up speaking.
So, I believe that God doesn't have any trouble communicating with anybody, regardless of which language they speak. I don't believe that the "Pentecostal tongue" is an "unknown tongue". If God wants to speak to you He has no trouble doing that, and doesn't need another human being standing by, ready to interpret for Him. God is all-powerful, omniscient, and not at all handicapped.

 

[Ariel82]

The irony is, the clearer you are inside, the more those who have issues get concerned
and disturbed, because all the words and freedoms express something they do not
have, but they do not know why

For example...the above SEEMS to say

"I see clearly inside myself and those who have issues with me is because I am shining God's light. They are concerned and disturbed because they don't have God or His freedom. So that is why they attack me"

It's a false assumption that shows pride.

I know God's peace and His love. I even understand what Peter says most days.

However, I am offended that he would condemn in his heart all who don't agree with him as those who dont know God.

This I find wrong and needs to be addressed because it causes strife and conflict.

 

[PeterJens]

Sounds like you are still falsely accusing people. ......

If you want to label that "free pass theology" and condemn it, let it be upon your head.

Peterjens, knows I love him

Do you really think anyone on this thread truly hates PeterJens?

If anyone has seen the musical Chicago, the women in prison have lots of excuses
of their actions. One that sticks in my mind,

And then he ran into my knife... he ran into my knife ten times.

You know how people feel and express themselves by their fruit. Often the individual
themselves is unaware of their feelings because it is always constant within them.

All we as followers of Christ is say, praise our King, and praise the power and blessing
He gives us daily, Amen

Why is it so hard to call people to fulfill our calling by loving our neighbour? Maybe people
are still struggling with, does Jesus really love me, can I let go of this hurt and defence I
have in my heart, and let the Holy Spirit reign

 

[Ariel82]

C'mon now...why cut out the gospel message in my post?

No Jesus does more than "like" people. he loves us and died for us.

"The free pass theology"?

What a load of.....bovine feces.

To be Born again means your heart and mind are changed and confirmed into God's will and His love. Thus you are empowered to walk in His ways and have the divine blessed assurance of being accepted by God because Jesus blood allows you to be seen as righteous. His Spirit allows you to live godly lives.

Is the above "free pass theology"?

Jesus loved us so much He DIED for,the,remission of,OUR sins!

HE rose again and if we,die,with,Him,we, are raised with,Him by,being born again.

 

[Ariel82]

It's simple...do you AGREE that the above is the GOSPEL message or do you believe it a "free pass theology"?

 

[PeterJens]

For example...the above SEEMS to say

"I see clearly inside myself and those who have issues with me is because I am shining God's light. They are concerned and disturbed because they don't have God or His freedom. So that is why they attack me"
It's a false assumption that shows pride.
I know God's peace and His love. I even understand what Peter says most days.
However, I am offended that he would condemn in his heart all who don't agree with him as those who dont know God.
This I find wrong and needs to be addressed because it causes strife and conflict.

Ariel - I welcome people to disagree. Amen. I also would like the why and the foundations
of it. What I have been faced with is just spiritual confrontation, and the desire I should just
submit and believe.

Now as this is just a position of conviction, it carries no weight.
I then get told I have no authority, sense, standing, I am a heretic, troll, liar, slanderer etc.
Even I do not know God, or love, or the bible, or anything.

Now would anyone who knew the Lord behave like this? Is this the fruit of the Holy Spirit?
Is this how Paul, the apostles or Jesus behaved?

So it gets nowhere, because much of the verses and theology are interpretation bias, and
building framework that dictates the result. It is one way of looking at scripture, but I can
use a different framework and get different results, so the assumption, the framework dictate
the answer.

It is why I withdraw to one basic idea. What is the objective of salvation? From this everything
else comes. If it is a free pass exercise, so once in never out, then behaviour, who you are is
irrelevant, it is just knowing Christ and believing at some point is enough.
If the objective is to become like Christ, then failure to reach this is everything.

Jesus said something profound. They hated Him because they hated the Father, and they will
hate us no matter what. And some have expressed what I would call real hatred, to say some
commit the worst sin in church history, legalism or works salvation. And where ever discussion
starts, they have to put their point of simplified focused view in case some might be deceived.
There is no compromise in their eyes, lol, but ofcourse we must compromise, because that
is Gods way? No.

Now we all have to decide why we are on this walk and where we expect to get to.
I know each step is easy, the final destination seems impossible, but Jesus is our guide.
And these wolves want to be accepted as brothers and sisters, though they disown people all
the time.

So it has always been so, and will also be until He returns.

 

[gb9]

Ariel - I welcome people to disagree. Amen. I also would like the why and the foundations
of it. What I have been faced with is just spiritual confrontation, and the desire I should just
submit and believe.

Now as this is just a position of conviction, it carries no weight.
I then get told I have no authority, sense, standing, I am a heretic, troll, liar, slanderer etc.
Even I do not know God, or love, or the bible, or anything.

Now would anyone who knew the Lord behave like this? Is this the fruit of the Holy Spirit?
Is this how Paul, the apostles or Jesus behaved?

So it gets nowhere, because much of the verses and theology are interpretation bias, and
building framework that dictates the result. It is one way of looking at scripture, but I can
use a different framework and get different results, so the assumption, the framework dictate
the answer.

It is why I withdraw to one basic idea. What is the objective of salvation? From this everything
else comes. If it is a free pass exercise, so once in never out, then behaviour, who you are is
irrelevant, it is just knowing Christ and believing at some point is enough.
If the objective is to become like Christ, then failure to reach this is everything.

Jesus said something profound. They hated Him because they hated the Father, and they will
hate us no matter what. And some have expressed what I would call real hatred, to say some
commit the worst sin in church history, legalism or works salvation. And where ever discussion
starts, they have to put their point of simplified focused view in case some might be deceived.
There is no compromise in their eyes, lol, but ofcourse we must compromise, because that
is Gods way? No.

Now we all have to decide why we are on this walk and where we expect to get to.
I know each step is easy, the final destination seems impossible, but Jesus is our guide.
And these wolves want to be accepted as brothers and sisters, though they disown people all
the time.

So it has always been so, and will also be until He returns.

2nd paragraph- because myself and others point out these behaviors, WHICH YOU DO , that makes us non-believers??

see what is being said here is this- anyone who agrees with me is a true believer, and anyone who dis-agrees with me is a lost sinner.

a lot of hyperbole and figurative language, but that is what is being said.

 

[PeterJens]

2nd paragraph- because myself and others point out these behaviors, WHICH YOU DO , that makes us non-believers??
see what is being said here is this- anyone who agrees with me is a true believer, and anyone who dis-agrees with me is a lost sinner.
a lot of hyperbole and figurative language, but that is what is being said.

gb7 - Let me simplify it. Are you going to be with Jesus when you die no matter what?
Do you believe the objective of salvation is to be like Jesus?

My answer is - No, I will be with my Lord if I keep faith with Him
Yes I desire to be like Jesus, and His work in me is to bring this about.

This is where I stand. You can stand wherever you like, and Amen to this if you
are happy with it. God bless you, because above everything we all need Christs blessing.

 

[PeterJens]

Pride - I wish I understood this when we talk about truth.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me."

Now expounding this truth has nothing to do with the expounder, it is the truth so should
be expounded.

In faith we have a choice. Either step out and share your view and insight, or hide and be
quiet and never see the blessing you can be sharing what Christ has done in you and others.
Like in all presentations, things can be done better, but sharing is part of walking with Christ.

Now seeing inside ones heart is a false assumption. Well it is only false if it is not true.
But if it is true, many seriously do get upset, because they believe it is not possible.

So a statement is untrue because it means something, not because it is wrong and here is
why. There are many reasons why people are quiet, and one important one is lack of
purity and resolution within. And it helps if you have worked on this, which is why Jesus
says remove the plank out of your own eye. Jesus is saying look at what I am teaching,
teach this and not the minor doctrinal arguments, but walking in good works, loving each
other, being real, speaking from the heart, not just appearing good, actually being good.

 

[Ariel82]

Mj007, any comments on this statement: "
And these wolves want to be accepted as brothers and sisters, though they disown people all
the time."?

 

[Ariel82]

The thread is about Salvation and how it is about Faith in Jesus and NOT by Works.

The rest is just chatter and fluff.

Folks should either be able to say " yes my Faith is in Christ alone for my salvation. Good works are the FRUIT not the CAUSE of my salvation"

Or "no my Faith is in my works to keep me saved and Jesus is just another teacher leading the way."

Or what they believe is the GOSPEL truth.

 

[valiant]

Sometimes we might mock people,or speak inappropriately,but I find that the people that do it the most,and the most vicious,is people that believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,for they seem to be worldly,and speak according to the flesh a lot,and get the most short with people,might call them names.

the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[PeterJens]

A wolf?

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matt 7:15

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
2 Peter 2:1-2

The sign of false teachers or wolves is the destruction intended of people.
Peters point is one of morality and depraved conduct.

 

[rily51jean]

When it comes to the word of God, and Jesus Christ, I look at it from the standpoint of Prov. 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; And lean not unto thine own understanding." If He says "No, don't do that", that's the way I receive it. Like what part of "No, don't do that" do I not understand? If I don't completely understand something, I search further through works from Shepherd's Chapel, the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, and the Commentaries of Matthew Henry on Blueletterbible.com, which are very helpful to me. When it comes to other than prophecy, like some things in Revelation, and O.T. prophets, I take His word at face value. It is what it is; it's what He thinks and says what I'm to either do or not do, not what I choose to think about what He is saying. I don't go with other people's re-interpretations of obvious instructions in His word.
If somebody doesn't agree with me, and they are steadfast and have firmly drawn their line in the sand in disagreement with me, I see no point in wasting my time converting them to my point of view. And if I, then proceed to personally insult, mock derogatively, call them names, insult their intelligence, harass or "poke" them unmercifully, than I am working against the commandment of Jesus Christ in John 15:12 "This is My commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." Jesus did not upbraid any of those who followed Him, when they asked Him questions, the only people He upbraided was the Pharisees, Sadducees, chief priests, and elders of the synagogues.
Paul spoke of this in Galatians 5:15 "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another." This was another reason that I turned away from God, because of this type of thing directed at me in the MSM churches that I attended.
I've seen churches split up several times, and the biting and devouring involved was vicious. Non-Christians observe this unrighteous behavior, and judge us, and ask "Why should I want to be like you, or even Christ?" I know, because that's one of the ways I used to think. If I do that I am not a good Rep. for the Lord Jesus Christ, and when I stand and face Him either at the end of my life, or after His return, whichever comes first, the only thing I can expect Him to tell me is "Depart from Me, I never knew you!".

 

[rily51jean]

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

you shouldnt worship false idols..

Oh, then are we to only worship true idols!? LOL!!!!Yuck-Yuck!!

 

[Ariel82]

The thread is about Salvation and how it is about Faith in Jesus and NOT by Works.

The rest is just chatter and fluff.

Folks should either be able to say " yes my Faith is in Christ alone for my salvation. Good works are the FRUIT not the CAUSE of my salvation"

Or "no my Faith is in my works to keep me saved and Jesus is just another teacher leading the way."

Or what they believe is the GOSPEL truth.

People should simply state the gospel message they believe and cease from the endless labeling of "wolf".

Is your foundation Christ alone for your salvation?

Or is it by works?

 

[PeterJens]

People should simply state the gospel message they believe and cease from the endless labeling of "wolf".

Is your foundation Christ alone for your salvation?

Or is it by works?

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:26-27

However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Rom 4:5

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:10

What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
Phil 3:8-9