day of the Lord the sun moon and stars
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One cannot simply base their understanding on what the scriptures say based upon a single verse or two, it is very important to cross reference with scriptures through out the bible. one can read revelation and think they understand it but without understanding what the other scripture in the bible say about these things we are only looking at and understanding a piece of the puzzle.
The sun and the moon and the stars were made to show signs seasons and times, the sun not giving it's light and moon not shining her light are easily thought of as an eclipse which i personally believe it is as for the stars falling and the heavens power being shaken this part is not so easily understood. It could very well be lots of meteors falling to earth as mountains of fire as meteors in many religions including Christianity are called stars or it could mean a very big attack of missiles and nukes being launched.
As much as God is love he also has his anger and wrath his judgement is just and his wrath is pure but it only lasts a short while and he only does this on the wicked and self loving. Look around at every day things, how many musicians do you see boasting of women sex drugs and money? how many of them do you hear boasting of themselves and talking down others? heck even commercials are irritating i can't watch t.v. without coming across a commercial with some kind of sexual theme or a really hot girl in a provocative outfit. This is because this stuff sells, people are much more likely to buy a product if they see a very attractive person related with it, it's a common psychology tactic that never gets old.
In this day and age the boastful arrogant and filthy minded rule, and it's also becoming much more common in people as well. when i was 10 years old kids would not dare say the F bomb nowadays i see kids at age 6 having a potty mouth more fluent than most adults and it's not even frowned upon anymore it's like it's the norm.
The sun and the moon and the stars were made to show signs seasons and times, the sun not giving it's light and moon not shining her light are easily thought of as an eclipse which i personally believe it is as for the stars falling and the heavens power being shaken this part is not so easily understood. It could very well be lots of meteors falling to earth as mountains of fire as meteors in many religions including Christianity are called stars or it could mean a very big attack of missiles and nukes being launched.
As much as God is love he also has his anger and wrath his judgement is just and his wrath is pure but it only lasts a short while and he only does this on the wicked and self loving. Look around at every day things, how many musicians do you see boasting of women sex drugs and money? how many of them do you hear boasting of themselves and talking down others? heck even commercials are irritating i can't watch t.v. without coming across a commercial with some kind of sexual theme or a really hot girl in a provocative outfit. This is because this stuff sells, people are much more likely to buy a product if they see a very attractive person related with it, it's a common psychology tactic that never gets old.
In this day and age the boastful arrogant and filthy minded rule, and it's also becoming much more common in people as well. when i was 10 years old kids would not dare say the F bomb nowadays i see kids at age 6 having a potty mouth more fluent than most adults and it's not even frowned upon anymore it's like it's the norm.
Im not too sure its litteral 3 and a half years. times time and a half could be 350 years 3500 years, or could express " half" of seven which is always represented with God. 7 spirits, seven stars, seven trumpets, vials, last bowls of wrath, 7 eyes on the lamb 7 horns ect..... could be symbolic, I know certainly that things in daniel, ezekiel and zechariah specifically along with other random prophets have added information that pertain to the events in revelation. as does the gospel.
Thanks for your thoughts, definately something to consider....God bless
Thanks for your thoughts, definately something to consider....God bless
Good day Johnny_B,
Though there are references in the OT to some of the coming events in Revelation, it is not necessary to know all OT prophecies. I can read all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and understand what the result is going to be without referring to the OT.
I would also point out that, the word "apokalupsis" translated as "Revelation" is defined as " previously unknown to the extent (because "veiled, covered")." And therefore, the events of Revelation, for the most part, were previously unknown. .
We have prophesies regarding the sun, moon and stars found in Joel, Isaiah and in other OT scriptures, but they are not required in order to understand the fulfillment found in Revelation. One definition of one of the symbols in Revelation is provided in the OT, specifically in regards to the identity of the woman of Revelation 12, who is said to be clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars, which according to Gen.37:9-10 is representing the nation Israel.
But overall, one does not need to know the OT in order to understand the book of Revelation. Please give us an example of something in Revelation that would require knowing the OT in order to understand it.
Thanks!
"One cannot simply base their understanding on what the scriptures say based upon a single verse or two, it is very important to cross reference with scriptures through out the bible. one can read revelation and think they understand it but without understanding what the other scripture in the bible say about these things we are only looking at and understanding a piece of the puzzle."
amen to that blain that is a great way to say it thats easy to understand, i wish i had that skill.
"The sun and the moon and the stars were made to show signs seasons and times, the sun not giving it's light and moon not shining her light are easily thought of as an eclipse which i personally believe it is as for the stars falling and the heavens power being shaken this part is not so easily understood. "
One thing i see in it is that creation falls apart at this day. the skies roll up the mountains and islands flee, the stars fall from the sky, the sun and moon fail ect. its definately a picture of the end of the world as we presently Know it, im positive theres more depth to it, I have alot of thoughts on it but it seems to cause alot of arguing at times when a person doesnt have substantial scripture to support. even then its likely to encourage an argument so...lol im sure its the last day of this present creation though.
as for the remainder of your post, i totally understand and see the same descent of creation and im reminded of Paul saying this as we move closer to this day
romans 8:For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."
and even moreso to your pointat the end there i think of this
2 timothy 3:1-7 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
to me thats a great description of alot of the world around us now
amen to that blain that is a great way to say it thats easy to understand, i wish i had that skill.
"The sun and the moon and the stars were made to show signs seasons and times, the sun not giving it's light and moon not shining her light are easily thought of as an eclipse which i personally believe it is as for the stars falling and the heavens power being shaken this part is not so easily understood. "
One thing i see in it is that creation falls apart at this day. the skies roll up the mountains and islands flee, the stars fall from the sky, the sun and moon fail ect. its definately a picture of the end of the world as we presently Know it, im positive theres more depth to it, I have alot of thoughts on it but it seems to cause alot of arguing at times when a person doesnt have substantial scripture to support. even then its likely to encourage an argument so...lol im sure its the last day of this present creation though.
as for the remainder of your post, i totally understand and see the same descent of creation and im reminded of Paul saying this as we move closer to this day
romans 8:For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."
and even moreso to your pointat the end there i think of this
2 timothy 3:1-7 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
to me thats a great description of alot of the world around us now
I also am not sure it's a literal 3 and half years, it said a day is like a thousand years to the lord and a thousand years is like a day, not to mention the fact that our way of measuring time and days and years compared to how the Hebrews did back then when this stuff was written are not the same. If say a day is like a thousand years to him how is a year to him i wonder? a day is also likened to a time or season in the bible not always meaning 24 hours.
Actually in my research of bible prophecy numerology has really come into play, I hate math and am horrible at it however i cannot deny that God truly is the ultimate math professor, the accuracy of which certain numbers are used in the fulfillment of bible prophecy is astounding. and many times the numbers used are not always what they appear, at first look the number seven could be used a=in scripture and you would think that seven is the number meant for that particular verse and prophecy however upon further research you will not find the true deeper meaning of that prophecy until you do a bit of math and study on the original text and timelines and calculate using the number seven, 49 is often times the end result and only then will the scriptures truth hidden within the truth be understood.
out of all the subjects of study bible prophecy is the most fascinating to me, so many of his hidden truths to the average eye has been revealed to me from my fascination of bible prophecy
Actually in my research of bible prophecy numerology has really come into play, I hate math and am horrible at it however i cannot deny that God truly is the ultimate math professor, the accuracy of which certain numbers are used in the fulfillment of bible prophecy is astounding. and many times the numbers used are not always what they appear, at first look the number seven could be used a=in scripture and you would think that seven is the number meant for that particular verse and prophecy however upon further research you will not find the true deeper meaning of that prophecy until you do a bit of math and study on the original text and timelines and calculate using the number seven, 49 is often times the end result and only then will the scriptures truth hidden within the truth be understood.
out of all the subjects of study bible prophecy is the most fascinating to me, so many of his hidden truths to the average eye has been revealed to me from my fascination of bible prophecy
to understand it fully, it actually does. the same events are foreseen by the prophets of old looking into the vast future. almost everything in revelation is something the prophets beforehand began opening up long beforehand. its the same with the gospel, if we dont seek out what happened that we need salvation, its hard to understand what the godpel actually is and what it is meant to accomplish. its like when people eliminate everyone but paul and clainm His authority. paul isnt understood without first having a foundation of the Gospel. all of Gods word explains the rest, gives depth of understanding.
The More of the story we Know, the More of it we understand, the clearer it becomes. but with that understanding comes responsability
Good day followJesus,
It would have to be a literal 3 1/2 years. The decree that was given in Dan.9:24 is for seventy 'seven' i.e. seventy seven year period or 490 years. The decree is divided up into three parts:
7 Sevens = To restore and rebuild Jerusalem
62 sevens = The Messiah cut off (Christ crucified) at the end.
1 seven = The establishing of the seven years and the setting up of the abomination in the middle
69 sevens have already been fulfilled in the exact times given. The last seven years must also be fulfilled literally as well. That seven years is divided up into two 3 1/2 year periods, with the last 3 1/2 years referred to by Jesus as "the great tribulation," and which will commence at the setting up of the abomination in the holy place within the temple.
It is referred to as "the great tribulation" because at the setting up of the abomination is when that antichrist/beast will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God (2 Thes,2:4). The setting up of the abomination is what will cause the desolation of Jerusalem with the woman, Israel fleeing out into the wilderness to that place provided for her by God where she will remain for 1260 days, which is the second part of that seven year period. (Matt.24:15-21, Rev.12:6,14)
It would have to be a literal 3 1/2 years. The decree that was given in Dan.9:24 is for seventy 'seven' i.e. seventy seven year period or 490 years. The decree is divided up into three parts:
7 Sevens = To restore and rebuild Jerusalem
62 sevens = The Messiah cut off (Christ crucified) at the end.
1 seven = The establishing of the seven years and the setting up of the abomination in the middle
69 sevens have already been fulfilled in the exact times given. The last seven years must also be fulfilled literally as well. That seven years is divided up into two 3 1/2 year periods, with the last 3 1/2 years referred to by Jesus as "the great tribulation," and which will commence at the setting up of the abomination in the holy place within the temple.
It is referred to as "the great tribulation" because at the setting up of the abomination is when that antichrist/beast will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God (2 Thes,2:4). The setting up of the abomination is what will cause the desolation of Jerusalem with the woman, Israel fleeing out into the wilderness to that place provided for her by God where she will remain for 1260 days, which is the second part of that seven year period. (Matt.24:15-21, Rev.12:6,14)
indeed, its really astounding to me How you can learn a prophecy and then later see it fulfilled in the word. Those number patterns are found in so many parts of prophecy the 7s the times and a half ect the 12s seem to all relate like you are saying in a mathematical way....thats deep thought there man.
one number pattern i cant quite get ahold of is the 14 generations, then the 14 again, and the fourteen again because in matthew, one of His example only has 13 generations lol its like He miscalculated ( matthew not God) or left out a generation. im not sure whats up with that lol but definately the numbers have an amazing simetry throughout Gods Word the 7s begin with the 7 day creation, then enoch is the 7th son of adam.....on and on it seems.
Well I understand how you feel, it's difficult to discuss these things without hard evidence because it unintentionally stirs the pot and people get into heated senseless arguments. I only study bible prophecy because of interest and lots of times i don't have solid evidence but like to discuss it and learn and to find the truth hidden within the truth. however this is not the intention of many people they would rather debate and argue their view and have themselves proven right.
And just like you pointed the scriptures predicted how vastly this world would become prideful and corrupted and so it's no surprise to think that suddenly out of nowhere the bible is going to unfold like a line of domino's. in fact a time is coming and is at our door even now when the bible will be the only guide in which people will be able to understand the horrors happening around them. For a while know god has placed on my heart to speak of the times coming so that no one can say to him why didn't you warn us? He has said many times through many of his children what is coming but who will listen? while we sit here arguing about who is right about the rapture and the tribulation and mocking and attacking each other in senseless arguments like children a storm is rapidly approaching the likes of which this world has never seen and never will again.
It's a storm that appears small and far away to most because they are seeing it like their looking through a telescope the wrong way when in fact it is at our door as we speak. it is a storm and a time of utter blood and darkness sorrow and agony and everyone will look back on these days when we say life is so horrible because of money problems and everyday life issues with fondness only then realizing how well of we had it wishing we could go back to these times and days knowing that we can't.
When this storm hits us many will be unprepared and not expect it like a thief in the night, the Christians by title and the Christians by heart will be separated and see for who they are the wheat and the chaff will be parted and known clearly and the sheep and the wolves in sheep clothing will be obvious.I constantly say to seek love above all other things and to seek his heart and to have a deeper love bond and connection with him because this is the only way we will be ready when this storm hits us. when this storm does hit us if our hearts are not prepared none of us will stand
And just like you pointed the scriptures predicted how vastly this world would become prideful and corrupted and so it's no surprise to think that suddenly out of nowhere the bible is going to unfold like a line of domino's. in fact a time is coming and is at our door even now when the bible will be the only guide in which people will be able to understand the horrors happening around them. For a while know god has placed on my heart to speak of the times coming so that no one can say to him why didn't you warn us? He has said many times through many of his children what is coming but who will listen? while we sit here arguing about who is right about the rapture and the tribulation and mocking and attacking each other in senseless arguments like children a storm is rapidly approaching the likes of which this world has never seen and never will again.
It's a storm that appears small and far away to most because they are seeing it like their looking through a telescope the wrong way when in fact it is at our door as we speak. it is a storm and a time of utter blood and darkness sorrow and agony and everyone will look back on these days when we say life is so horrible because of money problems and everyday life issues with fondness only then realizing how well of we had it wishing we could go back to these times and days knowing that we can't.
When this storm hits us many will be unprepared and not expect it like a thief in the night, the Christians by title and the Christians by heart will be separated and see for who they are the wheat and the chaff will be parted and known clearly and the sheep and the wolves in sheep clothing will be obvious.I constantly say to seek love above all other things and to seek his heart and to have a deeper love bond and connection with him because this is the only way we will be ready when this storm hits us. when this storm does hit us if our hearts are not prepared none of us will stand
it surely is, either its about His coming His death and resurrection, His second coming or its explaining why He came to die and redeem us. even genesis relates to the reason Jesus came it shows us why He had to save us How we became sinners needing salvation, it explains where death came from in order for us to understand How its taken away. everything in the entire word is pointing to Jesus who was to come, came, and will come again. i Like what the gideons write in thier bibles a really Great statement about Christ being the grand subject of the Bible.
if more people would study the ot along with the nt the church would be much better equipped in Knowledge and grasp of Jesus, who He is, what He means to us, what He said and did for us, what His promises are , what our part in it is ect.
Well if it is deep thought i cannot take credit, in all honesty it was all God. See i have brain damage and cannot do even simple multiplications even the way i write you would not think i have brain damage but again i cannot take credit i am literally proof that it doesn't matter what weakness or flaws we have because God is not lacking.
The only reason i can speak how i do and know the bible and understand numbers the way I do is because he lends me his understanding i myself could never understand this stuff no matter how much I tried. Seven is the number of perfection and three is a holy number with very profound depth which is why even the devil using the triangle which has three points and puts an all seeing eye in the middle of it. now normally a pattern used in the bible is seven times seven times seven or simply a pattern of the number seven being used three times. now 14 is seven times two and would normally be used three times but 13 being the third represents incompletion as it is one number from the the third 14. and the number 14 is seven plus seven so if you divide 14 by 2 you get seven and thus 2 is also a number related to this.
2 has a duel meaning to it, it represents both division and unity. it can mean either separation or it can mean bringing together depending on how it is used, for instance in marriage two beings become one and for one heart and mind body and soul however two people are or two countries or two cookies are two separate individuals.
So lets say that all these numbers are related together, now lets say these numbers are deeply intertwined with several scriptures in the bible and lets also say that these particular scriptures are somehow related to bible prophecy. You have quite deep study right there chalked with very deep and hidden truths that the average eye could never see. The bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many many layers and hides the truth hidden within the truth and that truth is coveting an ever deeper truth
The only reason i can speak how i do and know the bible and understand numbers the way I do is because he lends me his understanding i myself could never understand this stuff no matter how much I tried. Seven is the number of perfection and three is a holy number with very profound depth which is why even the devil using the triangle which has three points and puts an all seeing eye in the middle of it. now normally a pattern used in the bible is seven times seven times seven or simply a pattern of the number seven being used three times. now 14 is seven times two and would normally be used three times but 13 being the third represents incompletion as it is one number from the the third 14. and the number 14 is seven plus seven so if you divide 14 by 2 you get seven and thus 2 is also a number related to this.
2 has a duel meaning to it, it represents both division and unity. it can mean either separation or it can mean bringing together depending on how it is used, for instance in marriage two beings become one and for one heart and mind body and soul however two people are or two countries or two cookies are two separate individuals.
So lets say that all these numbers are related together, now lets say these numbers are deeply intertwined with several scriptures in the bible and lets also say that these particular scriptures are somehow related to bible prophecy. You have quite deep study right there chalked with very deep and hidden truths that the average eye could never see. The bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many many layers and hides the truth hidden within the truth and that truth is coveting an ever deeper truth
Man blain you got some real things going on in your heart and are growing very evidently in Knowledge and truth. share that freely bro, the truth is it wont win you many friends, but it will indeed reach those with ears and with a heart prepared to receive and grow.
"He has said many times through many of his children what is coming but who will listen? while we sit here arguing about who is right about the rapture and the tribulation and mocking and attacking each other in senseless arguments like children a storm is rapidly approaching the likes of which this world has never seen and never will again."
indeed man and eternity is at stake in these matters, many treat it like a debate or like the bible is just a subject that we should believe is true, really its true, but also its coming Just like God said it was. its really a lesson book, a training manual in parts its full of Gods word, and when you consider what words do, its an expresssion of our minds, our thoughts our views, and we Have Gods own view about everything pertaining to mankind and eternity, yet its not really appreciated that way for so many people. " we have the mind of Christ" << thats a reference to the Words of Jesus in the gospels. he expressed His knowledge, His mind and heart, His thoughts to mankind and then was written down to preserve for future generations to hear and Know.
as your post finishes up Our place is to get prepared, and speak the truth to anyone who will hear. its serious business and its coming like a bullet un announced like a thief in the night, unexpected soon and without any doubt Jesus is coming with salvation and wrath that exceeds even the wrath of the Law, the lambs wrath ends the universe as we Know it.
Ty for the kind words my friend but the praise and credit again goes to god. The way god and I work is interesting i always speak my heart and often times what i speak is what he places on my heart to say it just flows and is like instinct. I don't say things to make friends and many times have been attacked because of what i say being called a false prophet and being told I am leading his sheep into a pit of deception however when I see how the words he places on my heart to speak impact the hearts of others and make that spark inside them and ignite that fire that had been dead so long all of it is more than worth it.
"I don't say things to make friends and many times have been attacked because of what i say being called a false prophet and being told I am leading his sheep into a pit of deception however when I see how the words he places on my heart to speak"
its a promise of the gospel bro that if you do that people will reject you, insult you, call you evil. im positive you know that scripture. "count it exceeding Joy when you are rejected, for the sake of the gospel for great is your reward in heaven"
earlier you said this
"For a while know god has placed on my heart to speak of the times coming so that no one can say to him why didn't you warn us? He has said many times through many of his children what is coming but who will listen?"
and i was thinking of ezekiels call to warn Gods people.
ezekiel 33:8-9 "When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 9Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul."
Gods call is serious bidness, both for those called and those who hear the word God gives them. as we hunger and seek after understanding ive always believed the gosl is to prepare us to spread the truth, even if like jonah were convinced no one will listen, or they will turn against us. Because you neve Know when someone will have thier ears open and need to hear whats in your Heart. Could be a word God gave to you that will impact them at Just the right time, or in Just the right circumstance. of course the Credit is Gods for making certain people instruments, but the person should be commended and encouraged when another recognizes thier value
without getting into a huge prophecy debate with you, heres a very simple example of ot prophecy, the gospel, and revelation working together for a better understanding of a simple thing
revelation 11:3-4 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the TWO OLIVE TREES, and the TWO CANDLESTICKS standing before the God of the earth."
the depth of understanding increases from the knowledge in the prophecy of zechariah.
zechariah 4:11-14 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the TWO ANOINTED ONES, that STAND BY THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH ."
and then when the gospel is included, you have the identification of those two annointed who stood By the Lord transfigured.
Matthew 17:2-5 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3And, behold, there appeared unto them MOSES AND ELIAS ( elijah) talking with him. 4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
the only two ever mentioned standing and talking with Jesus in His glory ( the Lord of all the earth)
this is an example of what im saying to you, i understand from past convos that you have studied revelation and have some good insight, all im saying is prophecy ties together and offers a better way of understanding things in revelation, so we dont have to read about something Like the 4 horses released into the earth in rev 6 what they represent where they come from are they actual horses? or are they spirits sent into the earth? see zechariah 1 and 6 amoing other places.
or we dont have to try to figure out what the little book with writing within and without is, or so many other depictions of things that have clear already written understanding long before revelation was written. its not a complete story, its the conclusion of prophecy. the whole understanding of revelation is scattered throughout the word. thats all im saying i used to think like you that i had it " solved" and knew what it all meant, butthat was before the rest of prophecy started coming together with revelation.
But either way, God bless and Keep you always.
