No problem, I like Voddie too.Marano, thank you!
Voddie is one of my favorite preachers, and i hadn't heard that one yet.
Voddie Baucham: The World, the Flesh, and the Devil
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Why would you need to preach this way to people already saved?
Oh wait a minute, so sorry. Elected?
What you state is not in dispute at all.
However, Paul calls this type of knowledge and preaching an elementary doctrine, that prohibits us from going into spiritual maturity. Its quite easy for guys like this to preach agaisnt something, but preaching who you are in Christ is hard for them, because they are already elected and do not need to go into spiritual maturity.
As a saint and new creation in Christ Jesus, I do not need to be constantly reminded of my former state or a place I am not destined to go to.
Heb 6.1-2
6 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you. I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.
And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
(2 Peter 1:10-15)
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you. I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.
And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
(2 Peter 1:10-15)
for that to work you need to add verses 1-9, so 10-15 is fully understood in proper terms.
did you listen to the sermon?
it doesn't read as though you did.
& what's this about sound basic doctrine "prohibiting us from going into spiritual maturity" ??
does reading Peter's epistles prohibit a man from becoming mature?
i assume, poor phrasing on your part
heavens no! no !
far be it from me to prohibit your maturation by reminding you of verses 1-9
verse 9 does seems salient tho:
For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted,
having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
forgive me, i better be careful before i quote the whole Bible, and thereby ruin the faith of those who are 'gone on to maturity'
((??))
wanna talk instead about how 1 Kings 13 is a type of the temptation of Christ?
verse 9 does seems salient tho:
For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted,
having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
forgive me, i better be careful before i quote the whole Bible, and thereby ruin the faith of those who are 'gone on to maturity'
((??))
wanna talk instead about how 1 Kings 13 is a type of the temptation of Christ?
yes, please.
yes, please.
yay! ♥
in Matthew 4, we have Christ in the wilderness after 40 days of fasting, and Satan tests Him first to eat. then he tests Him to cast Himself down, specifically from the pinnacle of the temple - all it would take to be cast from there would be to relax Himself and fall: the test is to place His body in mortal danger. third Satan offers Him kingdoms: earthly treasure.
first, in 1 Kings 12:32, the wicked king of Israel sets up a false passover for himself to rival the feast in Judah, effectively blaspheming making himself God - a type of antichrist, thinking to change times and seasons.
this triggers a judgement event full of signs:
in 1 Kings 13, a man described only as 'a man of God from Judah' is sent by the word of the Lord to Bethel, giving a sign that Josiah, by name, ((himself a very strong type of Christ)) will be born ((fulfilled a couple hundred years later)) and destroy the pagan worship there thoroughly. also as a sign, the altar is split and its ashes poured out. as another sign, the king worshiping there, threatens the man of God and his hand is withered. Jeroboam, the king, then asks that his arm be healed ((?? bold dude, right?)) - and it is - and then invites the man of God to his house to eat and to relax, and offers him "reward" - earthly treasure.
((would it be safe for the man of God to go relax himself at Jerobaoam's place? at his coming, Jeroboam's altar was destroyed, and judgement pronounced on his party and his Baal-priest friends. uh-uh, i think, "mortal danger"))
the man of God refuses and tells him that by the word of the Lord he has been commanded yet another sign: he must not eat in that place, nor drink, and must not go back by the way he came. he tells Jeroboam, even if he were to offer him "half his kingdom" he would not go!
we have Christ tempted to food, to 'relax Himself' / put His life in danger, and offered worldly wealth and power.
we have 'the man of God from Judah' tempted to food, to 'relax himself' which would certainly put him in mortal danger if not by the hand of man then by the hand of God for disobeying His word, and offered worldly wealth - which he refuses by saying he would not even accept a kingdom, specifically because: "the word of the Lord" to him was against it.
Christ refuses Satan with the word of the Lord, too
starting to see a pattern here?
the latter half of 1 Kings 13 is really puzzling in a lot of ways - and really astounding - but looking for Christ in here, in type, this starts to make very brilliant and really, really astounding sense.
read and pray and think, and what do you start to see?
Christ always saves - He sacrifices Himself for the sake of sinners, and incorruptible, He shoulders our burden. He destroys sin and death, and will proclaim all judgement.
is someone in this event being saved? someone sacrificing himself? someone knowing no sin, taking on sin for someone else's behalf? maybe healing people who don't in any way deserve to be healed?
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did you listen to the sermon?
it doesn't read as though you did.
& what's this about sound basic doctrine "prohibiting us from going into spiritual maturity" ??
does reading Peter's epistles prohibit a man from becoming mature?
i assume, poor phrasing on your part
We agree to disagree bro.
I stopped when he said that we are sinners saved by grace and it is who we are and want to be. He also obviously agrees with oneness doctrine. so nope, I did not listen past about the 11 minute point. He is preaching poison and religion.
yay! ♥
in Matthew 4, we have Christ in the wilderness after 40 days of fasting, and Satan tests Him first to eat. then he tests Him to cast Himself down, specifically from the pinnacle of the temple - all it would take to be cast from there would be to relax Himself and fall: the test is to place His body in mortal danger. third Satan offers Him kingdoms: earthly treasure.
first, in 1 Kings 12:32, the wicked king of Israel sets up a false passover for himself to rival the feast in Judah, effectively blaspheming making himself God - a type of antichrist, thinking to change times and seasons.
this triggers a judgement event full of signs:
in 1 Kings 13, a man described only as 'a man of God from Judah' is sent by the word of the Lord to Bethel, giving a sign that Josiah, by name, ((himself a very strong type of Christ)) will be born ((fulfilled a couple hundred years later)) and destroy the pagan worship there thoroughly. also as a sign, the altar is split and its ashes poured out. as another sign, the king worshiping there, threatens the man of God and his hand is withered. Jeroboam, the king, then asks that his arm be healed ((?? bold dude, right?)) - and it is - and then invites the man of God to his house to eat and to relax, and offers him "reward" - earthly treasure.
((would it be safe for the man of God to go relax himself at Jerobaoam's place? at his coming, Jeroboam's altar was destroyed, and judgement pronounced on his party and his Baal-priest friends. uh-uh, i think, "mortal danger"))
the man of God refuses and tells him that by the word of the Lord he has been commanded yet another sign: he must not eat in that place, nor drink, and must not go back by the way he came. he tells Jeroboam, even if he were to offer him "half his kingdom" he would not go!
we have Christ tempted to food, to 'relax Himself' / put His life in danger, and offered worldly wealth and power.
we have 'the man of God from Judah' tempted to food, to 'relax himself' which would certainly put him in mortal danger if not by the hand of man then by the hand of God for disobeying His word, and offered worldly wealth - which he refuses by saying he would not even accept a kingdom, specifically because: "the word of the Lord" to him was against it.
Christ refuses Satan with the word of the Lord, too
starting to see a pattern here?
the latter half of 1 Kings 13 is really puzzling in a lot of ways - and really astounding - but looking for Christ in here, in type, this starts to make very brilliant and really, really astounding sense.
read and pray and think, and what do you start to see?
Christ always saves - He sacrifices Himself for the sake of sinners, and incorruptible, He shoulders our burden. He destroys sin and death, and will proclaim all judgement.
is someone in this event being saved? someone sacrificing himself? someone knowing no sin, taking on sin for someone else's behalf? maybe healing people who don't in any way deserve to be healed?
♥ ♥ ♥
post, this is beautiful! thank you!
i'm overwhelmed at the moment, and need to think.
the man of God... the withered hand...the Lion killed him (???)... buried in another's tomb...tell me where i'm wrong, won't you?
but immediately i think of (i think 2 Kings?) when the marauding Moabites come along as a man is being buried and a man's body is tossed in with the bones of Elisha and when the corpse touches the bones of "the man of God" he stands up on his feet.
we were buried with Him (the true Man of God, the Christ) and raised to newness of life in Him. what a type and shadow you've shown me. it's the Gospel!
also, that whole business of going home by another way...do you think Ezekiel 46? (??? lol)
When the prince enters, he shall go in by way of the porch of the gate and go out by the same way. But when the people of the land come before the Lord at the appointed feasts, he who enters by way of the north gate to worship shall go out by way of the south gate. And he who enters by way of the south gate shall go out by way of the north gate. No one shall return by way of the gate by which he entered but shall go straight out. When they go in, the prince shall go in among them; and when they go out, he shall go out. (v 8-10)
our children have a tradition whereby when one of them does something extraordinary, sacrificing their own comfort or desires for the others, or simply loving beyond the usual, that person is awarded "family member of the day".
so i hereby award you family member of the day, my dear brother. ♥ ♥
wow you couldn't be more wrong!
((for example, this link: http://www.voddiebaucham.org/blog/post/the-elephant-in-the-room))
see, i do not agree to disagree. i would much prefer to agree. i am finished with "agreeing to disagree"
and it seems to me that all your disagreement is with a person who you have not listened to speak, who you know nothing about, who you misrepresent and are confused over.
((actually to be honest i think you just want to start a calvanism/arminianism fight))
let me know when you are willing to actually pay attention to what the person you posture to disagree with is saying though. ((which is Voddie, not me))
oh -- but what about 1 Kings 13 tho? do you want to talk about that? without preventing anyone's maturity?