LOL cussing what a stretch. That could have been said of the early Church too however, it would not be true nor would it be today in Context to the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit " to suggest that one could be doing something evil while operating in a gift of the " Holy Spirit" is a very serious claim. That is why you used " Might even be cussing". might is not right . could be, possible, or maybe are ALL NOT ABSOLUTES. Guess what That is why in 1cor it say let us Judge to see. it is funny how many miss that statement .
Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues
- Thread starter WebersHome
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
LOL cussing what a stretch. That could have been said of the early Church too however, it would not be true nor would it be today in Context to the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit " to suggest that one could be doing something evil while operating in a gift of the " Holy Spirit" is a very serious claim. That is why you used " Might even be cussing". might is not right . could be, possible, or maybe are ALL NOT ABSOLUTES. Guess what That is why in 1cor it say let us Judge to see. it is funny how many miss that statement .
Well everyone else in the room knew what happened and were praising God and she was never the same afterwards she had this hope and light about her so I think both. Of course I had no idea what tongues was I had only been a Christian for about two months back then so i was little confused at what the heck I just saw lol
Tongues are an interpretation from God. It is a two fold gift like all of His gifts they mutually bless both. Blessing both the speaker and the hearer. When one man would speak his own language the other would hear it according to their language and vise versa. God interprets both called communication it is how the gospel went out.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he (the other speaker) that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
When Peter spoke in his native language God interpreted what he said in regard to many different languages,every nation under heaven
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Act 2:5-8
Like someone mentioned it was like a reversal of the tower of Babel when everyone spoke the same one language God confused the language in order to cause a separation in order to scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Pentecost brought it back together to introduce the gospel to the Gentile nations.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Gen 11:6-9
Tongues is not babbling making sounds to edify one self as an outward evidence they have the Holy Spirit .Tongues edifies God alone
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he (the other speaker) that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
When Peter spoke in his native language God interpreted what he said in regard to many different languages,every nation under heaven
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Act 2:5-8
Like someone mentioned it was like a reversal of the tower of Babel when everyone spoke the same one language God confused the language in order to cause a separation in order to scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Pentecost brought it back together to introduce the gospel to the Gentile nations.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Gen 11:6-9
Tongues is not babbling making sounds to edify one self as an outward evidence they have the Holy Spirit .Tongues edifies God alone
Tongues are not a reversal of Babel since what occurred there, sans the religious allegory in which the narrative is related, is actually a fairly accurate rendition of what occurred linguistically –
In a nutshell, speakers of Proto-Semitic (the ‘one language’ referenced in the narrative – the ‘whole world’ to someone living back then was just a small part of what we today call the Middle East) migrated towards the west and as they migrated and became isolated nations, groups, etc., their languages eventually splintered off into what would have been at first just dialects of P-Semitic, but over time, separate but a very closely related group of languages (a “confounding” of languages).
If one wishes to include the religious context, the notion commonly assumed is that “God used the confounding of languages to scatter the people”, however, it may be argued that “God scattered the people to cause a confusion of languages”. An interesting take on the narrative as it fits more closely with what actually happened historically and linguistically.
Since modern Pentecostal/Charismatic tongues are self-created, no two are, nor will they ever be, the same. This completely negates the concept of some sort of ‘universality’ with respect to modern tongue-speech. It further negates the concept of some sort of reversal of Babel.
The list in Acts is not a list of languages; it’s a list of places – all of which comprise the lands of the Jewish Diaspora (well, there are two places missing but probably scrivener’s error over time). Jews already living in Judea would have spoken Aramaic as their native language, some however (particularly in larger cities like Jerusalem) probably grew up with Greek. Jews of the western Diaspora would have been Greek speaking (those places had been Hellennized for centuries and Greek had replaced local languages for hundreds of years). Eastern Diaspora typically lived in larger cities and held onto their Jewish identity in these foreign lands. One way of clinging to their identity was language – Aramaic was the language of home, hearth, and community; however people would have also spoken the local languages in varying degrees of fluency, just never as their first/native language. As far as Jews attending Shavuot in Jerusalem, many different places, only two languages: Greek and Aramaic. The socially and culturally correct (and thus expected) language to be heard on such an occasion was the holy language of the Jewish people/faith; Hebrew. Instead the apostles spoke to them in Greek and Aramaic at which they were astounded, etc., etc. I would suggest that the apostles were keenly aware that to spread the message, Hebrew could not be used; by the first century, it was reduced to a liturgical and scholarly language – though culturally correct in the situation, very few people would have understood it. Therefore they chose to break through the cultural barrier and preach in languages everyone knew to get the message to as many as possible.
The list, by the way, was probably purposely included, not to represent linguistic diversity (since there really was none), but rather to indicate that the first apostolic mission was to the Jewish nation as a whole (Diaspora included), or as some schools of thought suggest, for political reasons, since the Romans also frequently made use of similar lists to indicate countries conquered, etc. – a message to the Romans that Christ has now “concurred”.
The rules Paul lays down in Corinthians appear to be simple rules of etiquette when foreigners are speaking and someone else is translating so as not to create confusion or have the situation get too out of hand (the limiting of number of foreign speakers).
In a nutshell, speakers of Proto-Semitic (the ‘one language’ referenced in the narrative – the ‘whole world’ to someone living back then was just a small part of what we today call the Middle East) migrated towards the west and as they migrated and became isolated nations, groups, etc., their languages eventually splintered off into what would have been at first just dialects of P-Semitic, but over time, separate but a very closely related group of languages (a “confounding” of languages).
If one wishes to include the religious context, the notion commonly assumed is that “God used the confounding of languages to scatter the people”, however, it may be argued that “God scattered the people to cause a confusion of languages”. An interesting take on the narrative as it fits more closely with what actually happened historically and linguistically.
Since modern Pentecostal/Charismatic tongues are self-created, no two are, nor will they ever be, the same. This completely negates the concept of some sort of ‘universality’ with respect to modern tongue-speech. It further negates the concept of some sort of reversal of Babel.
The list in Acts is not a list of languages; it’s a list of places – all of which comprise the lands of the Jewish Diaspora (well, there are two places missing but probably scrivener’s error over time). Jews already living in Judea would have spoken Aramaic as their native language, some however (particularly in larger cities like Jerusalem) probably grew up with Greek. Jews of the western Diaspora would have been Greek speaking (those places had been Hellennized for centuries and Greek had replaced local languages for hundreds of years). Eastern Diaspora typically lived in larger cities and held onto their Jewish identity in these foreign lands. One way of clinging to their identity was language – Aramaic was the language of home, hearth, and community; however people would have also spoken the local languages in varying degrees of fluency, just never as their first/native language. As far as Jews attending Shavuot in Jerusalem, many different places, only two languages: Greek and Aramaic. The socially and culturally correct (and thus expected) language to be heard on such an occasion was the holy language of the Jewish people/faith; Hebrew. Instead the apostles spoke to them in Greek and Aramaic at which they were astounded, etc., etc. I would suggest that the apostles were keenly aware that to spread the message, Hebrew could not be used; by the first century, it was reduced to a liturgical and scholarly language – though culturally correct in the situation, very few people would have understood it. Therefore they chose to break through the cultural barrier and preach in languages everyone knew to get the message to as many as possible.
The list, by the way, was probably purposely included, not to represent linguistic diversity (since there really was none), but rather to indicate that the first apostolic mission was to the Jewish nation as a whole (Diaspora included), or as some schools of thought suggest, for political reasons, since the Romans also frequently made use of similar lists to indicate countries conquered, etc. – a message to the Romans that Christ has now “concurred”.
The rules Paul lays down in Corinthians appear to be simple rules of etiquette when foreigners are speaking and someone else is translating so as not to create confusion or have the situation get too out of hand (the limiting of number of foreign speakers).
S
I have found that praying quietly in tongues (I am not an abuser of tongues and do not like shows put on by some either and have seen my share of abuse in the church so I get what you say) can really change a situation for unbelievers. we don't have to get loud and make a show.
sure you understand what I am saying, but for the benefit of those who are not sure about it
S
just thought of something though
the scripture actually states that tongues are a sign for unbelievers
as follows:
So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. I Corinthians 14:22
so what has happened that we change that around and make it about those who ARE saved as some kind of evidence of salvation or fruit of the spirit or whatever?
I would agree that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a turning point, but certainly not a 'magic fix' nor does it make a person 'better'
seems to me the 'church' has underachieved the Holy Spirit and put the emphasis in some wrong places
the scripture actually states that tongues are a sign for unbelievers
as follows:
So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. I Corinthians 14:22
so what has happened that we change that around and make it about those who ARE saved as some kind of evidence of salvation or fruit of the spirit or whatever?
I would agree that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a turning point, but certainly not a 'magic fix' nor does it make a person 'better'
seems to me the 'church' has underachieved the Holy Spirit and put the emphasis in some wrong places
-
● 1Cor 14:4 . . He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,
The above is true of someone with the actual gift of tongues only after
they've first obtained the ability to understand the strange words coming out
of their mouth.
● 1Cor 14:13-15 . . Anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may
interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my
mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will
also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my
mind.
But seriously, I don't think the gift of tongues was ever meant for people's
personal use anyway; rather, for outreach.
● 1Cor 14:22 . .Tongues are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers
The sign becomes quite ineffective when the tongue being spoken isn't
familiar to the audience.
● 1Cor 14:23-25 . . So if the whole church comes together and everyone
speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers
come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
The conclusion to draw is that the gift of tongues should be put to use
sensibly and intelligently.
/
● 1Cor 14:4 . . He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,
The above is true of someone with the actual gift of tongues only after
they've first obtained the ability to understand the strange words coming out
of their mouth.
● 1Cor 14:13-15 . . Anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may
interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my
mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will
also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my
mind.
But seriously, I don't think the gift of tongues was ever meant for people's
personal use anyway; rather, for outreach.
● 1Cor 14:22 . .Tongues are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers
The sign becomes quite ineffective when the tongue being spoken isn't
familiar to the audience.
● 1Cor 14:23-25 . . So if the whole church comes together and everyone
speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers
come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
The conclusion to draw is that the gift of tongues should be put to use
sensibly and intelligently.
/
Ok so we should not edify (build up) our own selves, but rather the church. Did you have a question?
What kind of language would it be if it was not babble or googoly gosh if Peter spoke words “easy to understand” and every nation under heaven heard and understood it in their own language?.
Tongues are an interpretation of God it is after no man it blesses both the one moved to bring prophecy, the word of God and the one that receives and vise versa if there is to be a understanding.
It worked both ways needed to have a conversation, an understanding. If the other person does not receive the interpretation of the words I would be a barbarian to him and if he spoke and I understood not he would be a barbarian to me. It would be like the tower of Babel confusion and disorder. This is rather than unity, brining the gentile nations .
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.No conversation
How would those words as babel sound except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? How shall it be known what is spoken, for then they shall speak into the air.
Paul was speaking of the superiority of the word of God (prophecy) compared to tongues a sign of unbelief. If one speaks in a tongue and the others do not understand he is only building up, edifying his own pride. If there is no interpretation from the Holy Spirit they should remain silent.
He was not promoting self edification, building up. That could only produce pride
But one who declares the word of prophecy, the word of God it edifies builds up the whole church
Again he was not encouraging self pride edifying one self but showing it uselessness in building up the whole body of Christ
1 Cor 14.4
4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
The Holy Spirit was not praising him for building himself up while the church had no undersanding of that prophecy, the word of God.
What kind of language would it be if it was not babble or googoly gosh if Peter spoke words “easy to understand” and every nation under heaven heard and understood it in their own language?.
Tongues are an interpretation of God it is after no man it blesses both the one moved to bring prophecy, the word of God and the one that receives and vise versa if there is to be a understanding.
It worked both ways needed to have a conversation, an understanding. If the other person does not receive the interpretation of the words I would be a barbarian to him and if he spoke and I understood not he would be a barbarian to me. It would be like the tower of Babel confusion and disorder. This is rather than unity, brining the gentile nations .
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.No conversation
How would those words as babel sound except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? How shall it be known what is spoken, for then they shall speak into the air.
Paul was speaking of the superiority of the word of God (prophecy) compared to tongues a sign of unbelief. If one speaks in a tongue and the others do not understand he is only building up, edifying his own pride. If there is no interpretation from the Holy Spirit they should remain silent.
He was not promoting self edification, building up. That could only produce pride
But one who declares the word of prophecy, the word of God it edifies builds up the whole church
Again he was not encouraging self pride edifying one self but showing it uselessness in building up the whole body of Christ
1 Cor 14.4
4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
The Holy Spirit was not praising him for building himself up while the church had no undersanding of that prophecy, the word of God.
In agreement.
And, imho, the reason there is so much confusion over the utilization of this manifestation is because it is a wonderful gift from the Father. Let's see, who would want to obfuscate and cause confusion about this awesome gift so that the end result is controversy amongst the believers? Three guesses and the first two don't count. So guess away ...
And, imho, the reason there is so much confusion over the utilization of this manifestation is because it is a wonderful gift from the Father. Let's see, who would want to obfuscate and cause confusion about this awesome gift so that the end result is controversy amongst the believers? Three guesses and the first two don't count. So guess away ...
Why should we not endeavor to edify (build up) our own selves?
We have no problem when someone eats healthy, nutritious food in order to keep his/her physical body edified (built up).
We have no problem when someone engages in physical activity in order to edify (build up) his/her body.
We have no problem when one involves him/herself in study in order to edify (build up) his/her intellect.
Why do we have a problem with a believer who speaks in tongues in order to edify (build up) him/herself?
And how do we know that the church is not edified when a believer is edified (built up) by speaking in tongues in order to prepare him/herself for whatever endeavors he/she needs to deal with that day?
We have no problem when someone eats healthy, nutritious food in order to keep his/her physical body edified (built up).
We have no problem when someone engages in physical activity in order to edify (build up) his/her body.
We have no problem when one involves him/herself in study in order to edify (build up) his/her intellect.
Why do we have a problem with a believer who speaks in tongues in order to edify (build up) him/herself?
And how do we know that the church is not edified when a believer is edified (built up) by speaking in tongues in order to prepare him/herself for whatever endeavors he/she needs to deal with that day?
So why did they have to pick on Samoans, which reminded me that my uncle did not believe in tongues and he was in a service and someone started speaking fluent Samoan.
But doesn't Sid know better, you are supposed to get them to say, mama-rode-a-honda-mama-rode-a-honda, as fast as they can. Try it, it works, they forgot tongues of angels, for the prayer life, to commune with God.
But doesn't Sid know better, you are supposed to get them to say, mama-rode-a-honda-mama-rode-a-honda, as fast as they can. Try it, it works, they forgot tongues of angels, for the prayer life, to commune with God.
I think it's because us humans ruin every thing we get our minds and hands on. I had to first have a willingness to learn to even approach this subject because we were so taught to steer clear of this tongues stuff. I began to seek the gift of tongues when Jesus brought miracles into my life.
It came in the form of many realizations (revelations) in the day that the love of God in Christ is real and allowed me to move forward in confidence not fear. That He can be trusted with my life when I let go of the controls and let Him do the leading. This isn't as easy for us humans as it sounds.
If your mind has been depended on and you learned how to think a certain way., how can you change? How do we defend ourselves or conduct ourselves except by the things learned over the course of our lives? As a Christian I did the daily maneuvering and hoped that God would be pleased to give success. The difference from then to now after being baptized in the Holy Spirit is now I know He is pleased and will give success. And that being confident of this very thing., that He that has begun a good work in you will perform it till the day of Jesus Christ. He is real and has a real interest in each one of us individually so much so that it is Him who will perform this in and through us should we dare to allow Him access to the controls.
Fear is a spirit. But God has not given us the spirit of fear... but of power and love and a sound mind. The Holy Spirit leads us into good things not evil all the days of our lives. He is to be trusted but we have to as Christians dare to believe that we are really loved so much so that we are His. Sealed and encouraged to be lead by the Spirit. Not fear Him and the unknown. Because what was once unknown to us can be known by the Holy Spirit showing us.
The Lord is glorified and pleased when we walk by faith as well today. I think when we keep trusting Him to do what He promises to do that He is glad we have again put faith in Him and his love for us. When we are walking in the love of God we are fellowshiping with Him having the same mind of the Spirit.
And also when we are with other believers and in agreement with the same mind of the Spirit the Bible even says how sweet and how pleasant it is when brothers are in agreement. We have all experienced the joy of being with many believers and worshiping the Lord in a gathering together. It's Amazing!!
And also when we are with other believers and in agreement with the same mind of the Spirit the Bible even says how sweet and how pleasant it is when brothers are in agreement. We have all experienced the joy of being with many believers and worshiping the Lord in a gathering together. It's Amazing!!
Last edited: