Sabbath

[MadebyHim]

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. Exodus 20:18-22

 

[Blik]

Why indeed.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

You cannot take some of the ways of the Lord and ignore others. ALL are the truth.

The law respresets the curse we are under for it tells us of sin that, without repentance and the blood of Christ means our death. We are told over and over to obey the law, that is also the truth. It is not the truth that the only reason to obey the law is to be saved. If fact, if we tell the Lord no, I won't listen to you, I rebel against what you guide me to do, we are just in rebellion, not in salvation.

When the Lord created all He then rested. The Lord worked for six days and rested on the seventh. The Lord blessed that seventh day, it is given to us for our blessings, and we are instructed to work six day and spend the seventh without our own work for our livelihood but spend that day only depending on the Lord to care for us.

We are to recognize that it is not our work that is our salvation, it is a blessing given to us by the Lord, but that fact has nothing to do with that when we love the Lord and give our lives to Him we are to follow His instructions. Just because it would be useless to try to work out our salvation for ourselves without God's mercy, that does not mean that we are not to obey the Lord.

 

[beta]

How can you make days holy when you rebel against the Lord's instructions?

We are told to work for six days of a week and rest on the first day. Christ said He didn't change that. If you tell God no, it is not how I interpret your word so that is not what I will do then you are rebeling against the Lord, not loving Him. Your days are spent in rebellion, not making them holy.

I think you have this a little 'mixed up. Scripture tells us to rest on the 7th day of the week.
Jesus did not change that for it was His custom to enter synagogue/church on the 7th day Sabbath.

 

[Blik]

I think you have this a little 'mixed up. Scripture tells us to rest on the 7th day of the week.
Jesus did not change that for it was His custom to enter synagogue/church on the 7th day Sabbath.

You are so right. Scripture even tells us that as it explains creation.

I spent months digging into ancient Hebrew history to find out who changed things and why. There is a big difference in religion between the age of the apostles who personally knew Christ as a man and religion after Constantine and the Nicene Council in 323. There are still copies of Constantine's letters and laws and also reports of the councils held by the church after that council. It is frightening reading and makes you wonder why our dhurches follow Constantine and not our Lord.

 

[beta]

You are so right. Scripture even tells us that as it explains creation.

I spent months digging into ancient Hebrew history to find out who changed things and why. There is a big difference in religion between the age of the apostles who personally knew Christ as a man and religion after Constantine and the Nicene Council in 323. There are still copies of Constantine's letters and laws and also reports of the councils held by the church after that council. It is frightening reading and makes you wonder why our dhurches follow Constantine and not our Lord.

Yes, WHY do they ? At the time of the 'original Disciples there was much 'persecution and fear of life among them and after they were KILLED it must have been much easier for Jesus followers to take up their 'own day of worship, enforced by powerful UNgodly men. This has grown into a false faith and belief too big to change by anyone else than God - that is why God is taking out of it only SINGLE individuals before He deals with the uncorrigable Wicked !!! Bless you for seeing the Truth !

 

[JohnTalmid]

Yes, WHY do they ? At the time of the 'original Disciples there was much 'persecution and fear of life among them and after they were KILLED it must have been much easier for Jesus followers to take up their 'own day of worship, enforced by powerful UNgodly men. This has grown into a false faith and belief too big to change by anyone else than God - that is why God is taking out of it only SINGLE individuals before He deals with the uncorrigable Wicked !!! Bless you for seeing the Truth !

Bless you for having courage to speak up for Messiah with Grace. Peace peace to you in Messiah Yeshua. John Talmid

 

[Grandpa]

You cannot take some of the ways of the Lord and ignore others. ALL are the truth.

The law respresets the curse we are under for it tells us of sin that, without repentance and the blood of Christ means our death. We are told over and over to obey the law, that is also the truth. It is not the truth that the only reason to obey the law is to be saved. If fact, if we tell the Lord no, I won't listen to you, I rebel against what you guide me to do, we are just in rebellion, not in salvation.

When the Lord created all He then rested. The Lord worked for six days and rested on the seventh. The Lord blessed that seventh day, it is given to us for our blessings, and we are instructed to work six day and spend the seventh without our own work for our livelihood but spend that day only depending on the Lord to care for us.

We are to recognize that it is not our work that is our salvation, it is a blessing given to us by the Lord, but that fact has nothing to do with that when we love the Lord and give our lives to Him we are to follow His instructions. Just because it would be useless to try to work out our salvation for ourselves without God's mercy, that does not mean that we are not to obey the Lord.

You don't really read scripture do you?

Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

[/FONT]Hebrews 7:11 [FONT=&quot]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

[/FONT]If you really want to know who changed things it was the Lord Jesus Christ. It's the reason the jews wanted Him crucified.

 

[Grandpa]

Yes, WHY do they ? At the time of the 'original Disciples there was much 'persecution and fear of life among them and after they were KILLED it must have been much easier for Jesus followers to take up their 'own day of worship, enforced by powerful UNgodly men. This has grown into a false faith and belief too big to change by anyone else than God - that is why God is taking out of it only SINGLE individuals before He deals with the uncorrigable Wicked !!! Bless you for seeing the Truth !

Acts 20:7-10
[FONT=&quot]7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.

Did Constantine make the original Disciples come together on the first day? Who made the Disciples do this?

How come they didn't all meet at the synagogue on saturday like the jews did?

I'm not sure why people who want to follow the law always bring up Constantine and pretend it was him who changed things. All you have to do is read the bible to find out who changed things. It wasn't Constantine. It was the Lord Jesus Christ.


[/FONT]

 

[rstrats]

Grandpa,
re: "Did Constantine make the original Disciples come together on the first day?"

No, he wasn't around at the time. I'm surprised you don't know that.
　


re: "Who made the Disciples do this?"

Scripture doesn't say. But since Paul was in town, it may have been him because he wanted to have a talk with them.
　

re: "How come they didn't all meet at the synagogue on saturday like the jews did?"

How do you know they didn't?

 

[JohnTalmid]

You don't really read scripture do you?

Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

[/FONT]Hebrews 7:11 [FONT=&quot]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

[/FONT]If you really want to know who changed things it was the Lord Jesus Christ. It's the reason the jews wanted Him crucified.

And if we who speak so gracefully to you who speak of a renewed covenant through hearing your sin's should be pricked in your heart and moved with compassion. Your retort hints rather of antisemitic comment. Rather than let good works for men be recognized. What we do, we do to honor our Elohim Yahshua the salvation of YHWH who has redeemed and raised us with rightousness and holiness ever since the days we submitted ourselves to the instruction and instruments of Elohim that are used for good to those who love Elohim.

We are under the order of Malkizadik and subjects in Messiah Yahshuas Kingdom

 

[beta]

You don't really read scripture do you?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

If you really want to know who changed things it was the Lord Jesus Christ. It's the reason the jews wanted Him crucified.

Oh Jesus changed the law/commandments from physical to spirit....
but He certainly did not abolish them, as some would claim.

 

[beta]

Grandpa,
re: "Did Constantine make the original Disciples come together on the first day?"

No, he wasn't around at the time. I'm surprised you don't know that.
　


re: "Who made the Disciples do this?"

Scripture doesn't say. But since Paul was in town, it may have been him because he wanted to have a talk with them.
　

re: "How come they didn't all meet at the synagogue on saturday like the jews did?"

How do you know they didn't?

In the beginning ALL met in the synagogue on the sabbath day...jews and gentiles...read Acts 13 and 17.

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa,
re: "Did Constantine make the original Disciples come together on the first day?"

No, he wasn't around at the time. I'm surprised you don't know that.

Well that's real weird, isn't it? How was he able to change everything when they were already doing it in Acts 20?
　

re: "Who made the Disciples do this?"

Scripture doesn't say. But since Paul was in town, it may have been him because he wanted to have a talk with them.

So we know for sure it wasn't Constantine. So we can stop repeating that lie, right?
　

re: "How come they didn't all meet at the synagogue on saturday like the jews did?"

How do you know they didn't?

Because the scripture expressly says they met on the first day.

Acts 20:7 [FONT=&quot]And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.[/FONT]

Interesting that it is pointed out here. Because it really wasn't necessary to the story, except that it was a fact.

 

[beta]

Acts 20:7-10
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.

Did Constantine make the original Disciples come together on the first day? Who made the Disciples do this?

How come they didn't all meet at the synagogue on saturday like the jews did?

I'm not sure why people who want to follow the law always bring up Constantine and pretend it was him who changed things. All you have to do is read the bible to find out who changed things. It wasn't Constantine. It was the Lord Jesus Christ.

The event you quote was 'breaking of bread AS in having a MEAL together and is not intended to mean a religious meeting see Acts 20 v 11 ....they had already had their official sabbath meeting and followed up with a 'meal before Paul set off to re-join the ship. He wanted to spend as much time as he could preaching and speaking to the disciples. Just read a few more verses in Acts 20 to get the gist of what was going on !
The original Disciples changed nothing and suffered martyrdom and death because of it. It was only after they were killed that these UNgodly men brought in false teaching. Prior to all this 'meeting on the first day was no more than 'fellowshipping.

 

[beta]

Well that's real weird, isn't it? How was he able to change everything when they were already doing it in Acts 20?
　


So we know for sure it wasn't Constantine. So we can stop repeating that lie, right?
　

Because the scripture expressly says they met on the first day.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Interesting that it is pointed out here. Because it really wasn't necessary to the story, except that it was a fact.

From what is 'gleaned from old records it was Constantine in collusion with the 'church in Rome 'who 'enforced' sunday worship on Jesus followers....and all her harlot daughters/denoms have followed her teaching.

 

[Grandpa]

And if we who speak so gracefully to you who speak of a renewed covenant through hearing your sin's should be pricked in your heart and moved with compassion.

I think there is the problem right there. You see a renewed covenant. The only way the New Covenant is considered renewed is that it is a covenant with God, again. Otherwise it is completely NEW.

Your retort hints rather of antisemitic comment. Rather than let good works for men be recognized. What we do, we do to honor our Elohim Yahshua the salvation of YHWH who has redeemed and raised us with rightousness and holiness ever since the days we submitted ourselves to the instruction and instruments of Elohim that are used for good to those who love Elohim.

I think you are confused between racism and false religion.

Racism is placing one race as being superior over another race. Anti-semitism would therefore be saying that the Jews are an inferior race compared to whatever other race.

I personally view racism as stupid. One whole race could never be superior over another whole race. Everyone is an individual with individual gifts and individual problems.

Now let's examine false religion. If you want to say that I am anti-Judaism, I readily admit it. A New Better Way has come and made the Old Way obsolete.

We are under the order of Malkizadik and subjects in Messiah Yahshuas Kingdom

I speak English, not ancient Hebrew.

My Lord is the Lord Jesus Christ. Did you know that He know Who He Is when you call Him by His English name?

When you call Him by His possible Hebrew name do you think He gives you extra favor? Or do you think it is just telling of your natural tendency to work for His Blessing by your own understanding?

I wasn't sure how else to address that. When you start off from a wrong premise you have to show what that wrong premise is.

 

[Grandpa]

The event you quote was 'breaking of bread AS in having a MEAL together and is not intended to mean a religious meeting see Acts 20 v 11 ....they had already had their official sabbath meeting and followed up with a 'meal before Paul set off to re-join the ship. He wanted to spend as much time as he could preaching and speaking to the disciples. Just read a few more verses in Acts 20 to get the gist of what was going on !
The original Disciples changed nothing and suffered martyrdom and death because of it. It was only after they were killed that these UNgodly men brought in false teaching. Prior to all this 'meeting on the first day was no more than 'fellowshipping.

Interesting that their "official" sabbath meeting prior to this is not recorded. But the first day of the week when the disciples meet is recorded.

It sure would be hypocritical of Paul and all the Disciples to meet on the 7th day because it is the sabbath. And then declare that they aren't under the law. And then declare that those who are of the works of the law are under the curse.

I wonder how a Judaizer gets around all that? So far it is by repeating the silliness of Constantine did it.

Also, if it supposedly isn't a "religious" meeting, why are they breaking bread and preaching? Haven't you ever had church on wednesday? Don't you consider that a "religious" meeting? Did you know that they have church on wednesdays too?

 

[Grandpa]

In the beginning ALL met in the synagogue on the sabbath day...jews and gentiles...read Acts 13 and 17.

Acts 13:2 [FONT=&quot]As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
What was the work that was called of them by the Holy Spirit?

Going to the synagogues and preaching to the Jews.

That's pretty logical. It would be harder to preach to them when they weren't all gathered together.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Blik]

Yes, WHY do they ? At the time of the 'original Disciples there was much 'persecution and fear of life among them and after they were KILLED it must have been much easier for Jesus followers to take up their 'own day of worship, enforced by powerful UNgodly men. This has grown into a false faith and belief too big to change by anyone else than God - that is why God is taking out of it only SINGLE individuals before He deals with the uncorrigable Wicked !!! Bless you for seeing the Truth !

There has been a big change since the 40's when things happened like finding the deep sea scrolls that opened up ancient languages and information. The holocaust happened and Jews returning to Israel.

It is a huge problem in our world that Constantine told the church fathers at Nicene that "if the Jews do it we must not for they are a wicked people". He knew nothing of scripture, his sense of values centered around goverening Rome. So he cristianized pagan holidays he did know. Our Lord had established the feasts to celebrate His plan for our redemption and at creation God established the Sabbath. Constantine made it a law to rebel against the Lord, we are still rebelling.

 

[Blik]

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

What was the work that was called of them by the Holy Spirit?

Going to the synagogues and preaching to the Jews.

That's pretty logical. It would be harder to preach to them when they weren't all gathered together.

It wasn't until Acts 10 that Luke spoke of gentiles. Before that Christians were all Jews or gentiles who became Jews.

God did not appoint a gentile to replace the 12th apostle, God appointed a Jewish Rabbi who had gone to the most prestigious school and had proved to be a competent scholar and leader.

The new covenant was not made with the gentiles, it was made with the Jews. Jeremiah 31:31-34New King James Version (NKJV)A New Covenant

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

We are adopted in so we share in it. It is not up to us to judge the Jews for their reaction to Christ and the new covenant, it is onl between te Jews and the Lord. aa