Not By Works

followjesus · May 14, 2017

The holy spirit John ch 14-15 all about keeping and obeying the commands of CHRIST. Not moses Law 2 different things Moses gave the Law..in it there is a prophecy of Christ

Deuteronomy 18:16-20 "According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

the bible even in moses time is teaching that its about Jesus Words, is this prophet Jesus???? according to peter

acts 3:20-23 "And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. "

and acts 7: 37-38This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the LIVELY ORACLES TO GIVE UNTO US."

its whay Jesus says " I am the one God sent" so often

Moses began saying obey Jesus He is the one to believe long before, all the prophets teach the same principle thae apostles all teach Jesus......Because He is the One true Son of God and prophet when people deny His word look at what it causes to happen to them according to scriptures above....and aslo relate that to all Jesus says about eternal Punishment for those who reject Him.....the holy spirit Jesus taught us how toi receive John 14-15 it doesnt Justcome we have to first " keep" the words in us of Jesus and then obey them because thats where faith comes from

"faith cometh by Hearing the message, and the message is Heard in the word of God << its why JESUS kept saying " my words arent mine they belong tothe father who sent me, finally john 6:63 " Jesus said "......the words that i speak to you ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE."

there is no spirit or salvation if we reject the spirit and Life which is the Word of Jesus, which is the words of God

followjesus · May 14, 2017

limey410 said:

matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

romans 2:5-11 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing SEEK FOR glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE: 8But unto them that are contentious, and DO NOT OBEY THE TRUTH, but OBEY unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon EVERY SOUL of man that DOETH evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."

Paul explaining eternal Life and well the other destination the fallen and raging wrath of God

Blik · May 14, 2017

followjesus said:

What a wonderful world it would be if we followed Jesus.

Most unhappiness stems from making judgments instead of allowing the Lord to repay. Children would be accepted and never hurt with rejection and criticism. Everyone would build eath other up, never tear down. Discussion would be about finding the right way, never looking at how wrong others are as a person. The need for psyciatry would be rare. People wouldn't need to look for drugs and medication for happiness for criticism, rejection, and bad thoughts would be gone. People would be set free to love, they would be set free from the thoughts that tear down. Free people can create wonderful lives.

FranC · May 14, 2017

Blik said:

Good morning Blik,

You truly understand what the Kingdom of God is.
It does start right here on earth.
Jesus said in John 3:3 that if one is not born from above he cannot see the Kingdom of God.
And if one sees the Kingdom of God and promotes that Kingdom, it would be much easier to have the world you dream of.
Jesus also dreamed of it.

Amen. And please post more love.
We need more love here.

FranC · May 14, 2017

followjesus said:

The next verses are also very interesting:

Romans 2:12-15 New International Version (NIV)

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Even WITHOUT the Law persons can be judged. We can BY NATURE do the right things.
This goes back to Romans 1:19-20. This is speaking to the Natural Law (not the law of nature).
By nature it is possible for man to seek God and do good.

God Always demanded that we be "good".
What many don't accept is that Romans does not abolish the Law but shows us the NEW WAY to follow it.
By living in the spirit and not by the written Law. This is not easy to explain unless one has an open mind.

I also like Romans 2:19-22

Romans 2:19-22 New International Version (NIV)

19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark,
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal?
22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

Paul also exhorts us (when speaking to Timothy) to be careful if one wants to be a teacher because it carries with it a very big responsibility. And then it goes on to explain how a teacher should be.

(chapter 3, 5, 6)

We should be careful to practice what we preach.

FranC · May 14, 2017

followjesus said:

The holy spirit John ch 14-15 all about keeping and obeying the commands of CHRIST. Not moses Law 2 different things Moses gave the Law..in it there is a prophecy of Christ

Deuteronomy 18:16-20 "According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

the bible even in moses time is teaching that its about Jesus Words, is this prophet Jesus???? according to peter

acts 3:20-23 "And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. "

and acts 7: 37-38This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the LIVELY ORACLES TO GIVE UNTO US."

its whay Jesus says " I am the one God sent" so often

Moses began saying obey Jesus He is the one to believe long before, all the prophets teach the same principle thae apostles all teach Jesus......Because He is the One true Son of God and prophet when people deny His word look at what it causes to happen to them according to scriptures above....and aslo relate that to all Jesus says about eternal Punishment for those who reject Him.....the holy spirit Jesus taught us how toi receive John 14-15 it doesnt Justcome we have to first " keep" the words in us of Jesus and then obey them because thats where faith comes from

"faith cometh by Hearing the message, and the message is Heard in the word of God << its why JESUS kept saying " my words arent mine they belong tothe father who sent me, finally john 6:63 " Jesus said "......the words that i speak to you ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE."

there is no spirit or salvation if we reject the spirit and Life which is the Word of Jesus, which is the words of God

I'd like to add, for all the Greek lovers here, that when the bible speaks of HEARING:

and acts 7: 37-38This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the LIVELY ORACLES TO GIVE UNTO US."

It does not mean to hear with the ears, but to hear with both the mind and with the heart.
To understand.
To accept.
To HEAR and to follow and to do.

FranC · May 14, 2017

limey410 said:

God's love is very big
but He's also a just God and must be respected as such.
Jesus reconciled us to God so we could be friends and not slaves.
Does this mean God has changed in some way?

No. He has only provided a better way for us to follow His commands.
The O.C. did not function and was to show how sinful man is.
The N.C. does funtion due to the love you speak of.

But God still requires us to obey Him.
Look at what the poster no. 7584 said:

We do NOT need to do works to get to heaven. Works won't get us into heaven. Nor do they gain us salvation, nor do they KEEP us our salvation.

We DO need to do works because it is required of us by God. But they are NOT to be done for the purpose of getting to heaven or keeping salvation.

Someone not familiar with Christianity would be saying... "what?"

The poster admits that doing works is REQUIRED BY GOD.
But also says we do not have to do them for THIS reason.

A little confusing, wouldn't you say?

We do the works because we want to,
They do need to be done.

So, let's just say it and make life easier for everyone reading along that may not understand such a fine red line.

God has ordered us to behave and act and do things in a certain way.
He has given us a new way to be able to do this,
Let's just do it and stop arguing about WHY we do.

God DOES demand obedience.

James 1:22-27 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his [a]natural face in a mirror;
24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but [c]an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in [d]what he does.

26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not [e]bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained [f]by the world.

FranC · May 14, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Hi Jimbo,

Your question above is regarding this post of mine:

Originally Posted by FranC View Post

I agree.
Romans explains it really well:

Romans 8:29-30 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29 For those whom He foreknew,
He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called;
and these whom He called, He also justified;
and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

The answer is very easy Jimbo.
Those who are saved are those who want to be saved and are after God's own heart.
Remember John 3:16? WHOSOEVER believeth shall have everlasting life. That means anyone, right?
(don't let Calvinists get you mixed up. They don't know the same God we do)

Let's just go through the scripture quick:

verse 29: God knew before hand who would come to believe. He predestined these people to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Jesus was the firstborn of many brethern. US. He was the first of the New Covenant.

verse 30: God "called" those predestined. As in Romans 1:19-20. God gives grace to those who are interested in Him so that they could make a commitment to Him -but they still have to want to.

Those who accept God's offering of salvation, HE JUSTIFIES. Justification is a free gift of God and cannot be earned.
Ephesians 2:8

Those who are saved, will one day also be GLORIFIED. Glorification comes after Death when we no longer need faith, or hope, but love will live on forever, and we will be living in the true Kingdom of God.

JohnTalmid · May 14, 2017

MattforJesus said:

I suppose their head is all in a bind as they have to try to justify all the scriptures that testify against OSAS,and come up with an interpretation that fits their belief,and they probably get in large groups,a think tank,to come up with an interpretation that fits their belief,and I can hear it now,someone standing up,and speaking,men and brethren,what shall we do,for we cannot come to an interpretation to justify our position,and there is only one way out,we must sweep this scripture under the rug,and do not mention it ever again,and file this non used scripture under non used scripture #49,and let it be so,saith the people of the OSAS clan,and they all say here ye,here ye.

Mat 21:23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
Mat 21:24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
Mat 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
Mat 21:26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
Mat 21:27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

Mat 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

People that hold a belief contrary to the truth of God will eventually come across something that contradicts what they believe,and they will not know how to answer for they cannot justify themselves,so many will ignore it for they cannot explain it,but might think it is an interpretation that goes along with what I believe,but I cannot grasp it now.

They say God chooses who will be saved,and who will not be saved,in the beginning,without the input of the person,which first off God is not evil to condemn people that have no input concerning their destiny,and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,and God is no respecter of persons.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God wants all people to be saved,and Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for all people,which the Bible says He is the Savior of the world,all people,and lights every person that is born in to this world.

So God does not choose who will be saved,and not saved,in the beginning,without the input of the person,for we do get an input in our destiny,and if not people that God chose would not truly love God,for they have no choice but to love God,and those not chosen are condemned for no reason.

2 things that go against the nature of God,that He is true love,and He is not evil,wow which is really crazy that their belief says this about God,but I know they are not trying to do that.

God calls things that have not happened as though they already happened,which all the works were finished before the foundation of the world,and the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,although they were future events.

God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning,and that salvation is to whoever wants it,for the Spirit and bride say,Come,and anybody that wants that salvation can have it.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

God does the calling and choosing on earth,but God gets the glory for us being saved,for when He calls us He works in our life to get us to the truth,but we have to make the final push through the door and accept that truth,for God's kingdom is based on true love.Without God interceding in our life we would never get to the point to make the decision of the truth,for no person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and no person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Like the Old Testament that was given to Israel,if they did not obey then they were cut off,so it is in the New Testament,if a person accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior,but they do not continue in His goodness,holding unto sin,they too will be cut off if they do not repent,and give up the sin.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

2Ti 3:6 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

A lot of people claim Jesus as Lord,and if some people start out in goodness,and then did not continue in goodness,will be cut off,if they do not get rid of the sins,then how will these people be in a right position that did not even get off on the right foot,for they would not get rid of their sins right off the bat,but if they would realize that sin affects their relationship with God,and does something about it,they can get on track.

If they believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,did they get off on the right foot with God,for when they accepted Christ as Lord and Savior,did they hold unto sin thinking they were alright with God,but only repented of all they did prior to that,but did not make that great of an effort to try to abstain from sin in the future,but do it,and then repent,and hold unto sin.

Many are called but few chosen,for we have a choice in the matter of our salvation,for God is true love,and is not evil.

Were they chosen that believe sin does not affect their relationship with Christ.

When something comes up fix it, that's grace.

Ariel82 · May 14, 2017

So....the fighting is about your beliefs in free will and OSAS.,....not salvation by works?

BillG · May 14, 2017

JIMBO43 · May 14, 2017

FranC said:

Hi Jimbo,

Your question above is regarding this post of mine:

Originally Posted by FranC View Post

I agree.
Romans explains it really well:

Romans 8:29-30 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29 For those whom He foreknew,
He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called;
and these whom He called, He also justified;
and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

The answer is very easy Jimbo.
Those who are saved are those who want to be saved and are after God's own heart.
Remember John 3:16? WHOSOEVER believeth shall have everlasting life. That means anyone, right?
(don't let Calvinists get you mixed up. They don't know the same God we do)

Let's just go through the scripture quick:

verse 29: God knew before hand who would come to believe. He predestined these people to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Jesus was the firstborn of many brethern. US. He was the first of the New Covenant.

verse 30: God "called" those predestined. As in Romans 1:19-20. God gives grace to those who are interested in Him so that they could make a commitment to Him -but they still have to want to.

Those who accept God's offering of salvation, HE JUSTIFIES. Justification is a free gift of God and cannot be earned.
Ephesians 2:8

Those who are saved, will one day also be GLORIFIED. Glorification comes after Death when we no longer need faith, or hope, but love will live on forever, and we will be living in the true Kingdom of God.

So would you say that those that dont reconise that glorification comes after death are the cake taker and not us ?

Also why havent any of the die hard faith alone fans answered any clear truths on my other threads lately... is it because they hide be rocks and only come out when they have an argument that they know they can twist ?

JIMBO43 · May 14, 2017

They dont want to answer me that repentance is a works that obtains salvation coz they know that this proves works does obtain salvation..

JIMBO43 · May 14, 2017

cowards in my book ....

Ariel82 · May 14, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Repentance is a work of God not of man.

JIMBO43 · May 14, 2017

mathew 18:35

The Unforgiving Servant
…34In his anger, his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed. 35That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

UNLESS YOU REPENT FROM THE HEART YOU ARE NOT SAVED.. (FLESH OLD TESTEMENT TOO....

Blessed are the pure of heart (works) coz they will inherit the kingdom..

JIMBO43 · May 14, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Yes it is but it must come from the believer..

BillG · May 14, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Not the case.

They like you know that no matter what is said it is not going to shift eithers belief.

Or or maybe they don't want to respond to quotes such as "cowards in my book"

blue_ladybug · May 14, 2017

We do works, not only because we want to, but also because it is required by God. BUT our good works DO NOT get us into heaven. They do NOT guarantee our salvation. They don't keep us our salvation. Nothing confusing about that, at all.

We are to do good works to show God's love through us, but they do zippity to get us into heaven.

FranC said:

God's love is very big
but He's also a just God and must be respected as such.
Jesus reconciled us to God so we could be friends and not slaves.
Does this mean God has changed in some way?

No. He has only provided a better way for us to follow His commands.
The O.C. did not function and was to show how sinful man is.
The N.C. does funtion due to the love you speak of.

But God still requires us to obey Him.
Look at what the poster no. 7584 said:

We do NOT need to do works to get to heaven. Works won't get us into heaven. Nor do they gain us salvation, nor do they KEEP us our salvation.

We DO need to do works because it is required of us by God. But they are NOT to be done for the purpose of getting to heaven or keeping salvation.

Someone not familiar with Christianity would be saying... "what?"

The poster admits that doing works is REQUIRED BY GOD.
But also says we do not have to do them for THIS reason.

A little confusing, wouldn't you say?

We do the works because we want to,
They do need to be done.

So, let's just say it and make life easier for everyone reading along that may not understand such a fine red line.

God has ordered us to behave and act and do things in a certain way.
He has given us a new way to be able to do this,
Let's just do it and stop arguing about WHY we do.

God DOES demand obedience.

James 1:22-27 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his [a]natural face in a mirror;
24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but [c]an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in [d]what he does.

26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not [e]bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained [f]by the world.

JIMBO43 · May 14, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

to deny the word of God in faith alone believers is something that will send you to hell in there believe sooooooooo

how come there denying this ?????????????????????????????????????????????

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