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Hi Kaylagrl,
Just out of interest have you read anything by Calvin, or other reformers, after all, if it wasn't for God using these men (you seem to think they are evil and wretched) you would be Roman Catholic!
Maybe his Institutes on the Christian religion? As I said before, it is easy to go on the internet and find any info that you want. Especially if it appeals to you whether it is correct or even in context. Anyhow just interested to know.
Just out of interest have you read anything by Calvin, or other reformers, after all, if it wasn't for God using these men (you seem to think they are evil and wretched) you would be Roman Catholic!
Maybe his Institutes on the Christian religion? As I said before, it is easy to go on the internet and find any info that you want. Especially if it appeals to you whether it is correct or even in context. Anyhow just interested to know.
Yep. Scripture says that.
Too.
Is that supposed to neutralize the other passages? Is that your hermeneutic? That's what many do - they find a text to pit against other texts.
Or, as trofimus suggested, do you just cherry pick?
I've offered what Scripture says in context to the attempted defamation of Calvin on here that supports Calvin. Jews were called dogs, and a lot worse. They are in no different spiritual condition than the rest of mankind, and, their sins and rebellion which are many are duly noted in Scripture. Calvin was not off track.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
The title of the land still belongs to the Jews,the use of the land has been taken from them because they disobeyed God but the title to the land is eternally theirs. But we're not talking about whether the Jews are chosen and going down that path.Its too nasty. I am simply saying Calvins comments are indefensible,though as I said,Luther was far worse. And that he had no issue with execution of those who disagreed with the mainline beliefs.
D
Depleted
Guest
Alas, Augustine got stuff wrong too. And he can't really be called a reformer, since the church hadn't become as deformed as it was in the Dark Ages.
We keep taking this back to the Bible as systematic theology. Some men carried the thought through the ages, but it is very much biblical theology.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Actually, I do not care about any land in the middle East at all.... so I do not want to get involved in your pro-Jewish position debate, sorry.
But if you can, provide me the books from which Calvin was quoted from. I want to read it myself in the context.
D
Depleted
Guest
Why? Should you be spending your time making a clear separation between Wesley and Arminius?
Depleted, the difference is that double predestination assumes God actively forces people to sin and deny him while the other view is that they do this themselves and God changes the nature of some so that they may be free from this and turn to him. This is why I think equal ultimacy is a better term. Still, I realize that God created all things knowing billions would reject him so this is in a way predestination, but I think the better term would be predetermination. It was predetermined that mankind would do this, but they were not forced by the hand of God to do so.
Whether someone is Arminian or Calvinist, this is an undeniable truth. The only ones who reject this (within the sphere of Chhristianity at least)) would be Open Theists or Molinists. But again, Open Theists teach damnable heresies and Molinists have to deal with the paradox of free will and the predetermination involved in the creation decree.
Read Romans 11 again please.
Its not Romans 11 vs other places.
You must take all.
Its not John 3:16 vs other places.
You must take all.
Please, people, learn this principle already.
A
Ariel82
Guest
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Yes,I have actually.I nice big thick book on the history of the church actually,among others. I understand that there were contributions made by many that I would disagree with in theology. I disagree with Luther and others.But just because they made contributions doesn't mean all they taught was correct or the way in which they acted,their character is not relevant to the discussion.
A
Ariel82
Guest
Do Calvinist believe that the Jews are still God's chosen people or do they support replacement theory: where the Church is now God's chosen people made up of both Jews and gentiles? And all the unfulfilled prophecies are meant for the church now or have already been fulfilled by Jesus.
Or a mixture like end times stances?
Or a mixture like end times stances?
D
Depleted
Guest
And we are therefore different than God, who did, BTW, kill people in OT and NT for far less?
K
kaylagrl
Guest
I had just made the comment in my last post that I did not want the thread to go down this path. But you can take part or dont.I started the thread and had I wanted it to be pro-Jewish,it would be. Google the quotes and you will find numerous sources.
That isn't what is being done. Rather you should take the verse you've presented and consider what the apostle says about the Jews, and Israel in Romans 11. They are not incompatible, its all addressed in Romans 11. "All Israel shall be saved."
D
Depleted
Guest
Oh but he did. He had many people (thousands, several times), killed for offending the tabernacle. And God kills in offense!
You do not understand. I do not want any web source. I want to read them in the book by Calvin
I also read "About Jews and their lies" from Luther and it actually was not as terrible as it is said on various hysterical websites. So I want to make my own picture.
And I recommend the same for anybody.
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