Not By Works

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Apr 15, 2017
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Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I believe sin does affect out eternal life if we do not abstain from it,and the consequences are not only of this world.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A person hates sin,does not want to sin,wants to represent goodness,and act Christlike,they can do it by the Spirit.

There is no excuse why we cannot abstain from sin,for it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

We have a choice,and if we still a car there is no excuse,for we could of chose not to steal the car.

It is not that we cannot abstain from sin,but we want to son,and even the world can abstain from sin if they want,as they choose what sins they like,and what sins they do not like.

The world can abstain from sin if they want,but being fleshy,and of the world,they want to sin,but if they do not want to do drugs,they will not do them,and if they do not want to cheat on the wife,they will not cheat.

So how can a person that claims Christ say,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God.

They act as if they cannot help but sin,and there is nothing they can do about it.

Sorry judge for stealing that car,for my body went to stealing that car and I could not stop it,but you know judge we cannot abstain from sin,which is silly,because they could of chosen to do good,and not stole the car.

Sorry honey for fornicating with the woman next door for 3 hours,but my body has a mind of its own,and I tried to stop my body,really I did,but it commenced to fornicating against my will,but you know honey we cannot abstain from sin,which is dumb for they could of chosen to do good,and not fornicated.

We are not forced to sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,and they can choose the good,for the option is there.

People that say we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,act as if they are being forced to sin for they cannot help but sin,but they can choose the good.

There is no excuse.
 
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limey410

Guest

Jesus told people to go present themselves to the priest when they were healed. Do we do that today? Od course not.

That was an Old Covenant truth at the time that Jesus was on this earth before the cross. Jesus had to die before the New Covenant came into being.

Jesus told the rich young ruler when he asked Him "What must "I do" ( works ) to have eternal life." Jesus gave him the law of Moses - and of course the guy went away sad because he wouldn't give up his money. He had broken the 1st commandment in the law of Moses.

When ever we bring in "what must I do" as in works to inherit eternal life which the law of Moses was based on - at the time Jesus would give the law of Moses to these people. He used it or elevated it to expose their need for a Savior.

Do we tell people to keep the law of Moses now for eternal life like Jesus said to some people? Of course not - we say this in the New Covenant.

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Obviously we must rightly divide all scripture with the context and through the revelation of the finished work of Christ and in context of who is being spoken to at the time.

If not = then we mix up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and make a mess out of them both and we can end up with a works-based/works-righteousness religion that nullifies the very grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

If we feed Christians on the nutrients of the love and grace of God that is in Christ - then His life will manifest in good works empowered by His life within us - the branches. Without Him we can do nothing.
Amen, it is not about us trying and not being good enough and Jesus picking up the slack. It is full reliance on what He has done, enabling a true heart relationship that will indeed change us, will indeed then allow us to listen to his voice and do, not out of a sense of obligation from the flesh, but out of a sense of the understanding of the breadth of His love for us.
 
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Some people just don't know how to rightly divide the word of truth. In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13).

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.
I hear ya and agree......and trees do the same thing...some years they bear a bumper crop...some years not so much and some years not at all....again....the bible is clear and we are not talking about a Christian walk and or even fruit bearing, but rather the means of salvation...and works do not fit the bill....it is by faith that one is saved void of works.....end of story....any work (s) is/are the result of the faith and salvation one already posesses in Christ......
 
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And I will once again repeat simply:

If it's not US doing our own works with the help of the Holy Spirit,
but it's JESUS working THROUGH us...

That means that when we sin, it's JESUS who fails because you say it's HIM who is donig the working.

So if it's Jesus doing everything for us, why do we have a problem with the flesh? Why do we sin?
Isn't Jesus working properly through us?

Don't you see how this sounds??

it's theologically incorrect.
If you believe we are puppets and God is manipulating us, then you could speak as you do.
If you believe we have free will, you cannot say what you say above. It does not make sense.

Paul said we are to work out our own salvation, he didn't say that God has already done everything for us.
Why would he say this if he didn't mean it?
Philippians 2:12

Obviously you are not understanding what is really being said. That's ok...just let it go.

If you can't see what is being said - I guess you just cant see it now. I can understand that. It happened with me in some things the Lord was showing me too - including this "good works" thing and relying on the life of Christ instead of my own self.

Another one was the understanding of the circumcision of the flesh from the heart - the new man in Christ . That one changed my life dramatically

Ask the Lord about it and carry on. He is faithful to all of us. Have a great night...:)
 
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Desertsrose

Senior Member
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Some people just don't know how to rightly divide the word of truth. In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13).

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

Hi Dan,

I almost always agree with what you say, but I'm not sure about this one. :) I'll post the scriptures so we can look at them.

My comments in blue.

John 15:1-6 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

​Here Jesus sats every branch in Me. Isn't that believers? The branch is in Him. I don't know how to understand that except that those in Christ are believers. What are you thoughts there?

You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
​It seems here He's of course speaking to believers, but warning them that they can't do a thing without Him so they need to abide in the vine. So those who don't remain and abide in Christ, they dry up and are gathered to be burned. How else can we read this? It seems pretty clear that He's talking to Christians.

And thanks to all who want to respond ahead of time for discussing this calmly and respectfully. I truly want to see it as it should be interpreted.

 
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Here you go again.
Have you no shame?
Now I'm
ignorant
a fool
bewitched
in the plenteous number (I guess that means I'm going to hell)

Do you think you could stop playing GOD for a while and JUST TALK TO PEOPLE??

Have you ever even read the New Testament?
What did Jesus tell you to do in Mathew 22:37-40 ??

WHY don't you do it??
Is it because Jesus has already done everything for you? YOU must do nothing?
Must Jesus also love your neighbors for you??
Can you read.....I never called you a fool or bewitched...my exact statement was, "Paul speaks to those who blend faith and works for salvation....calls them fools and bewitched"

If you blend faith and works for salvation....take it up with God and Paul's letter to the churches in Galatia.....!

and will add...Jesus is the one who spoke concerning those who come before him boasting of their works as the means of their so called salvation....take it up with him as All I can do is judge one's doctrine based upon their words as compared to the bible!
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
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1. I'm not a Roman Catholic. Sorry.
It's obvious that Roman Catholicism has deeply impacted what you believe, as we see from post #7396 in this thread. You already admitted in post #7331 in this same thread that you grew up Catholic and taught in that church, which explains so much. ;)

2. I'm not here to win any points. I have all the points I need from God.
Yeah right. :rolleyes:

3. Good bye.
Yes, goodbye and goodnight everyone. :)
 
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I want to take this moment to remind everyone that this thread is not about bearing fruit and or works which EVERYONE KNOWS A TRUE BELIEVER WILL PRODUCE....EVEN IF BUT ONE (1) piece....the bible lists 7 fruits of the Spirit lest we all forget....this thread is about the means OF BIBLICAL SALVATION....the bible is clear....it is based entirely upon FAITH INTO THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST ON OUR BEHALF...we, by FAITH ENTER INTO HIS REST....our works DO NOT EMBELLISH, GAIN AND OR KEEP SALVATION...that is based upon Jesus, his faith, his sacrifice, his work, his applied blood, the sealing by the spirit and the justification/sanctification that is applied unto all who exercise biblical faith....it is eternal and cannot be lost. Jesus promises to finish what he started and he will NEVER LEAVE US NOT FORSAKE US!
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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I agree with you Desertrose.
There are those from Romans 1 who will believe in God and be saved and there are those in Romans 1 who either do not believe in a God, or don't even acknowledge Him, and they will be lost BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE.

I just go a little farther and say that Jesus is God, right? So if someone who has never heard of Jesus but still believes in God, doesn't he also believe in Jesus? Is not the Trinity ONE GOD?

Yes, Jesus is God. :)

But there are so many god's out there. So we need to know which one we're worshipping. The Muslims are worshipping Allah so that can't be the God we worship. Allah is totally different from our God.

The Jews (unredeemed) do worship their understanding of God. They think they're worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but even Jesus told them that if Abraham was their father they would believe in Jesus.

So I can't agree that the gods of this world can be Jesus. What I can agree is that if they are worshipping the true God, He will lead them to Jesus. There's no other name by which we can be saved. The way to the one true God is through the Son. Read what Peter said.


Acts 4:8-12 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “ Rulers and elders of the people, if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health. He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
~
I am confident and trust that if someone in this world truly knows God, but doesn't know Jesus, if there's no one to bring them the Gospel of Jesus, God will reveal it to them in a dream, a vision.....somehow they will get to know Jesus. God does this a lot and even in the NT we see Peter having a vision to go to the gentiles with the gospel.
 
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Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I believe sin does affect out eternal life if we do not abstain from it,and the consequences are not only of this world.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A person hates sin,does not want to sin,wants to represent goodness,and act Christlike,they can do it by the Spirit.

There is no excuse why we cannot abstain from sin,for it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

We have a choice,and if we still a car there is no excuse,for we could of chose not to steal the car.

It is not that we cannot abstain from sin,but we want to son,and even the world can abstain from sin if they want,as they choose what sins they like,and what sins they do not like.

The world can abstain from sin if they want,but being fleshy,and of the world,they want to sin,but if they do not want to do drugs,they will not do them,and if they do not want to cheat on the wife,they will not cheat.

So how can a person that claims Christ say,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God.

They act as if they cannot help but sin,and there is nothing they can do about it.

Sorry judge for stealing that car,for my body went to stealing that car and I could not stop it,but you know judge we cannot abstain from sin,which is silly,because they could of chosen to do good,and not stole the car.

Sorry honey for fornicating with the woman next door for 3 hours,but my body has a mind of its own,and I tried to stop my body,really I did,but it commenced to fornicating against my will,but you know honey we cannot abstain from sin,which is dumb for they could of chosen to do good,and not fornicated.

We are not forced to sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,and they can choose the good,for the option is there.

People that say we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,act as if they are being forced to sin for they cannot help but sin,but they can choose the good.

There is no excuse.
More fluff and misdirection from one who believes that he does not sin and works to gain/keep something that cannot be gained nor kept by works!
 
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Hi Dan,

I almost always agree with what you say, but I'm not sure about this one. :) I'll post the scriptures so we can look at them.

My comments in blue.

John 15:1-6 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

​Here Jesus sats every branch in Me. Isn't that believers? The branch is in Him. I don't know how to understand that except that those in Christ are believers. What are you thoughts there?

You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
​It seems here He's of course speaking to believers, but warning them that they can't do a thing without Him so they need to abide in the vine. So those who don't remain and abide in Christ, they dry up and are gathered to be burned. How else can we read this? It seems pretty clear that He's talking to Christians.

And thanks to all who want to respond ahead of time for discussing this calmly and respectfully. I truly want to see it as it should be interpreted.

Those are great questions.

Personally I think there are a few ways of looking at it. I'll just talk about this first one for now.

1) We know that scripture says that everyone is included in Christ's work on the cross. Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

The 2 thieves being crucified with Jesus are a picture of Jesus identifying with the world. He took on the sin of the whole world from the past to until the day of eternity as we perceive it to be.

People must believe the message of Christ in order to receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. There is a vast difference between a universal atonement where everyone is included in Christ's work on the cross and universalism which is a false teaching that everyone goes to heaven no matter what.

We know that now the earth and the heavens belong to Christ Himself. They are in His kingdom and He rules and reigns. One day He will come to settle things in His kingdom.

Everyone is in Christ but Christ is not in everyone. There is a difference. That's why Paul says to "examine yourself to see if Christ be in you."

Everything is now in the kingdom of God ruled by the Lord Jesus Christ. There are tons of scripture showing this. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. 2 Cor. 5:18-21

So, in order to abide in Christ one must believe and receive Christ and receive the gift of His righteousness. This also answers the parable of the angels removing the unrighteous out of His kingdom at the end of the age.

Those that abide/remain/stay in Christ by believing in Him - will bear good fruit - because without Him we can do nothing. This also explains why good moral living, good works doing people in all religions still need to believe and receive Christ no matter what they are doing.

There's a lot more to this too but I'll stop here for now.
 
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Fran, Jesus already has saved us. If what you say about daily salvation is true, that means Christ has to die daily to save us. And that IS NOT TRUE.
No worries...her view does not quite cut the mustard....OSAS is biblical......a version where a person needs to be saved daily is not found in scripture and equates to devaluing the work and sacrifice of Jesus.....
 
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Here's my answer:

Those who LOVE THE LORD
ARE IN CHRIST.

Can't be any plainer.

The problem here is that GOD makes the rules...

Not anybody on this thread.
It is not that we loved him, but that he loved us and gave himself for us.........
 
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What's the tragedy? I'm following God's laws again?

Are you being God again?

What Katy says above is one of the most rediculous things I've EVER heard.

She says:
I ask because one can profess to be a christian, have a zeal, and profess to love the Lord, but not actually be IN Christ,

One can
profess to be a Christian
have zeal
and profess to love the Lord

but not actually be IN Christ.

I don't know. I'm stupid as Grace said, but that sure sounds llike A CHRISTIAN to me.
I'm REALLY GLAD no one here makes up the rules, but our great God does.
Actually her comment is as valid as it can be....many (plenteous in number) will go before the Lord claiming to know him, be A Christian and professing many wonderful works in his name.....only to be cast...why..because HE NEVER KNEW THEM BECAUSE THEY ATTEMPTED a works based entrance into his kingdom.....a DIFFERENT DOOR than FAITH AND GRACE.....a door similar to what you push to be frank..
 
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You're being God again.
Knowing who is saved and who is not.

Mathew 7:1-5
No, actually I am judging false gospels based upon the truth and the one way given in scripture.....learn the difference instead of assuming and accusing!
 
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Maybe you could stop reading the verses you like for just a little while
and go learn some theology.
You went to seminary?

You missed the Sanctification class?
Yes. I believe you did.
My post is good....maybe you should take notes and learn the truth instead of mouthing off!
 
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See.
You say works are not necessary and create self-righeousness.
THEN you say that you work.

THIS IS MOST CONFUSING...
You really should get your ideas straight.

ARE WE TO DO GOOD WORKS OR NOT???
Mathew 7:19
Nothing confusing about my post....read it carefully and maybe you can see the truth and difference....here let me help again....

WORKS DO NOT SAVE, KEEP SAVED, FACILLITATE SALVATION.....

Salvation is based upon GRACE AND FAITH VOID OF ANY HUMAN WORK, MERIT OR EFFORT

Did that clear it up for you or are you still trying to EARN YOUR WAY
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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What Katy says above is one of the most rediculous things I've EVER heard.

She says:
I ask because one can profess to be a christian, have a zeal, and profess to love the Lord, but not actually be IN Christ,

One can
profess to be a Christian
have zeal
and profess to love the Lord

but not actually be IN Christ.

I don't know. I'm stupid as Grace said, but that sure sounds llike A CHRISTIAN to me.
I'm REALLY GLAD no one here makes up the rules, but our great God does.
But I'm only confirming what God's word says. His word, not ours.

Read Matthew 7:21-23, which speaks of those who professed to be christians, but were never actually IN Christ. They were christians by title only, never truly saved.

And non believers do have zeal. Paul mentions Israel here. Just one example...


Romans 10:1-13: "Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them." But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”