Not By Works

[FranC]

John agrees with you. He writes to believers so that they may know that they do have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

With "security" comes the nutrients for "maturity" just like it does in every relationship. We are one spirit with the Lord and Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16

We are in Christ and Christ is in us when we believed the message of Him. Eph. 1:13

We can get our minds messed up with stinking thinking but our spirits are safe with the Lord for He has said "I will never leave nor forsake you."

If we would preach and teach the love and grace of God instead of "insecurity" then Christians would be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.

The grace of God would operate in our lives like it was meant to do for it is the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - which is His life manifesting in us that teaches us how to live godly in the present world. Titus 2:11-12.

Grace, regarding loss of salvation ...

Look what you posted:

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And right you are. Look at it again...

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
If one BELIEVES in the name of the Son of God, he is saved and has, as of that moment, eternal life.

Notice that believes is the present tense (for all the tense lovers here)

 

[PennEd]

fran i didnt read everything posted here

but i think to many who believe they have salvation in Jesus
it will be made manifest they never had it
and they had a dead faith

more so than they had true faith and lost it

i may be wrong

but this shouldnt cause division

i see how important repentence is to you based on your posts
and think you got a lot of stuff right and dont think this one thing wether you be right or wrong effects much


if we have a new heart given to us from God
we continue to grow in the word
FOLLOW Jesus and turn from sin we are gonna be alright

may God bless you ( posting this cause from what i did see it was you vs many and i felt sad in my heart)

I can see where you would think that. I assure you that those that believe in JESUS alone for Salvation, and blessed assurance, do not intend to be anything but loving. Truly desiring just to let others have eternal security.

BUT, we are still humans that are imperfect. And in that imperfection, we DO sometimes fail to show the love we are called to display.

So Fran, I'm sorry for not showing more love to you. I can absolutely assure you that anything I have said is on a purely doctrinal basis and not personal.

 

[gb9]

As far as I can tell (y'all correct me if I am wrong)

FranC, followjesus, PeterJens, Jimbo, and about 5 others believe in either Synergism (salvation takes both God's power and man's work to save you) or you have to do good works to maintain your salvation or risk losing it.

There are probably more.

Others believe in monogerism (only by God's power are you saved and stay saved. God works through you, but you are not robots. He changes your mind and way of seeing the world so you WANT to do it His way)

yes, I would 100% with this. the second paragraph is what many churches and denominations teach.

 

[FranC]

I can see where you would think that. I assure you that those that believe in JESUS alone for Salvation, and blessed assurance, do not intend to be anything but loving. Truly desiring just to let others have eternal security.

BUT, we are still humans that are imperfect. And in that imperfection, we DO sometimes fail to show the love we are called to display.

So Fran, I'm sorry for not showing more love to you. I can absolutely assure you that anything I have said is on a purely doctrinal basis and not personal.

I thank you for that.
We are all baptized into one name.

 

[FranC]

Sorry Katy,
My post no. 8277 was for you, not Ariel...
I'll go have my coffee now!!

 

[Ariel82]

yes, I would 100% with this. the second paragraph is what many churches and denominations teach.

It's split. I have seen. Churches preach synergism and that varies across denominations.
.I know Wesley and Methodist have been accused of it, but from my own experience and reading of wesley's sermons he was vehemently against people who preached works salvation. Especially if they claimed to be Methodist.

 

[garee]

Feet are used to represent the gospel. To wash the feet is to apply the gospel .Shaking the dust of the feet would indicate they are not rejecting us but him who does wash our feet. This is until the next time a person does meet.. Christ does not give up the first time, if so how many of us resisted the work of the gospel the first time and were cast away?

 

[FranC]

No one knows. If He is God's child, he will be convicted and repent. If not,he will die in his sins.

What exactly is his sin?

Music,hair, working out are all alright.

Even chasing women is okay unless he has sex with them.

The whole being made a preacher before being mature in Christ sounds more the fault of whoever ordained him.
I wonder if he was taught and taught a legalistic gospel?

Some people never hear the pure gospel message and only took themselves and others about being saved.

Everyone I have met says "I can't do it anymore on my own"

God tells us " you don't have to do it alone,i am with you"

Do we listen? The signs are all around us of God's love.

Ariel !

Jesus didn't say it's OK to chase women!

He said that even looking upon a woman with lust is adultery.
Mathew 5:27-28

(poor guys!)

 

[FranC]

No one knows. If He is God's child, he will be convicted and repent. If not,he will die in his sins.

What exactly is his sin?

Music,hair, working out are all alright.

Even chasing women is okay unless he has sex with them.

The whole being made a preacher before being mature in Christ sounds more the fault of whoever ordained him.
I wonder if he was taught and taught a legalistic gospel?

Some people never hear the pure gospel message and only took themselves and others about being saved.

Everyone I have met says "I can't do it anymore on my own"

God tells us " you don't have to do it alone,i am with you"

Do we listen? The signs are all around us of God's love.

Mathew 11:28-30

 

[Ariel82]

Grace, regarding loss of salvation ...

Look what you posted:

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. [

And right you are. Look at it again...

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
If one BELIEVES in the name of the Son of God, he is saved and has, as of that moment, eternal life.

Notice that believes is the present tense (for all the tense lovers here)

Did I miss something?

Where does it say you lose eternal life?

 

[FranC]

i dont want to gossip so im keeping it minimum
chasing women lustfully after being divorced is not alright

also i dunno how much sex he has but i know thats the point of chasing

long hair and working out is to aid his vanity

and i disagree with you on the worldly music and love there of


if its of the world and not of God

cant tell me ozzy ozborn or led zeplin arent wicked


ive seen the fruits ariel lol i wouldnt bring these up if they werent unholy


(though i appreciate your optimism and agree God can still save him)

The last I heard,Ozzie and his wife say they're Christian.

(I may not be up to date)

 

[blue_ladybug]

Fran, that's okay. I didn't join this site to make friends.

There is only ONE way to lose salvation. By rejecting Jesus Christ and denying that He ever lived and died for us.. I don't care what mainline churches believe. I BELIEVE what GOD says.

The works you do WILL NOT keep you your salvation. Good luck with those "points" that you have with God.

Blue,

Just to let you know that if you're not going to go around with people who believe one could lose salvation, you sure are going to lose lots of friends since MOST MAINLINE CHURCHES believe that you CAN lose your salvation.

This has been the position of the Church all along until Mr. Calvin came along and changed the minds of SOME, but not of MOST.

So good luck.

 

[FranC]

Did I miss something?

Where does it say you lose eternal life?

When you STOP believing in the name of Jesus.

BELIEVE is present tense. One must believe till the end to be saved.

 

[Ariel82]

i believe no matter what you proclaim
if you die a sinful person

youre hell bound

dunno what list that puts me on

(._.')

Depends what do you believe the Gospel is?

 

[FranC]

Because learning to live godly lives happens AFTER people are saved and are given the Holy Spirit.

Before you are saved you may try and live by the law,but you fail over and over again.

Only when you accept that Jesus died on the cross for the remission of your sins, rose again and ascended into Heaven...can you receive the Holy Spirit, which will teach you wisdom and convict you when you sin and tell you that you are a child of God.

Does the Holy Spirit tell you that you are a child of God?

I agree with everything you've said.

The last question is not appropriate. God knows.

 

[Ariel82]

When you STOP believing in the name of Jesus.

BELIEVE is present tense. One must believe till the end to be saved.

Yeah....faith is a gift from God. He is powerful enough to change our hearts and minds and keep us. When we are faithless, He is still faithful.

2 Timothy 2:13 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

New Living Translation
If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.

English Standard Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.

Berean Study Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Berean Literal Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He is not able to deny Himself.

New American Standard Bible
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

King James Bible
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The last I heard,Ozzie and his wife say they're Christian.

(I may not be up to date)

sorry i meant the music they made

im also not up to date

he gave praise to satan and satanists in some of his music

 

[FranC]

Ariel, it isn't gossip at all. I don't do gossip. She stated in more than one post on here that she doesn't believe in eternal salvation or eternal security. And I wasn't talking about her to another person. I put my post right here on the board for her to see and respond to if she wants..

People have tried talking to her about the Gospel. We've gone round and round many times. It's hard to teach the gospel to someone who does NOT believe that works don't save us, and that we don't have eternal salvation. :/

I have shaken off the dust with Fran. I just don't have the patience to teach someone who refuses to listen.

Am I incorrect, or is the whole bible not centered on how we get eternal salvation? I mean that's why Jesus DID die, right?

Don't feel bad Blue.
You have nothing to teach me.
Do I sound dumb or something?

Jesus died so you could be saved if you BELIEVE in Him.
BELIEVE is present tense.
Ask Grace and MMD. They know all about the present tense and maybe I don't.

 

[Ariel82]

I agree with everything you've said.

The last question is not appropriate. God knows.

Yes but doesn't God tell you?

How is that not appropriate?

God tells me he loves me everyday. I pray and He answers.

Isn't that what it means to be a BORN again child of God?

How God answers differs from time to time...be it dreams, words of wisdom from other believers, the world, a small voice in my heart, change in circumstances, miracles, etc.

God always answers my prayers, but I don't always see it at the time. Sometimes the answer is 'No, I have a better plan for your life."

 

[FranC]

Ariel, it isn't gossip at all. I don't do gossip. She stated in more than one post on here that she doesn't believe in eternal salvation or eternal security. And I wasn't talking about her to another person. I put my post right here on the board for her to see and respond to if she wants..

People have tried talking to her about the Gospel. We've gone round and round many times. It's hard to teach the gospel to someone who does NOT believe that works don't save us, and that we don't have eternal salvation. :/

I have shaken off the dust with Fran. I just don't have the patience to teach someone who refuses to listen.

Am I incorrect, or is the whole bible not centered on how we get eternal salvation? I mean that's why Jesus DID die, right?

Oh. And it IS gossip.

Read your post above to Ariel.

You're doing it again!