Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?
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This is classic for reformers who need a cop out. When the whole counsel of the word of God exposes the error you get into, you go to a hero of your faith that would "CONJURE" up a defense for your error and bad behavior and say stupid things like.
Yeah that does not apply to us, but was for the Jews. or others silly commentary like above to defend yourselves
Simply put, you guys can defend the faith all day and say whatever you because you have become masters at twisting scripture to prove and then twist it again to defend your own serious error. When you combat others with scripture you look like the hero and super spiritual and those who have no root in the word for themselves are easily controlled.
The pharisees were example of this and Jesus schooled them then and uses other to school them now.
Yeah that does not apply to us, but was for the Jews. or others silly commentary like above to defend yourselves
Simply put, you guys can defend the faith all day and say whatever you because you have become masters at twisting scripture to prove and then twist it again to defend your own serious error. When you combat others with scripture you look like the hero and super spiritual and those who have no root in the word for themselves are easily controlled.
The pharisees were example of this and Jesus schooled them then and uses other to school them now.
S
Sevenseas in brown with your responses beneath and my new responses in green cause it could get confusing. might I request that you actually paste the scripture and not just give the reference? just the reference requires we all look it up and the time frame gets pretty bogged down and I am 'stealing' time here to respond (which is fine cause I do like a proper discussion and points/counter points)
end of preamble
Romans 6 is a POSITIONAL explanation of the believer's life in Christ. It is not an endorsement of MacArthur's LS doctrine
for example, v.5-7, v.5 states we are UNITED with Christ in HIS likeness. THAT, is not an indication we achieve or have achieved any type of righteousness through our own conduct, desire to follow Christ, saying no to sin or anything else along those lines. Our entire salvation is based in what Christ has ACCOMPLISHED, His FINISHED work on the cross.
That is our BIBLICAL position. It DOES NOT CHANGE. and that is a major disagreement with those who adhere to LS. Having said that, it does not mean we continue in sin, as Paul said, God Forbid! However, I see it in these forums again and again, that that exact accusation seems to be the 'takeaway' finger pointing and stone throwing excuse for nastiness and name calling.
I am aware that MacArthur has published his very own STUDY Bible in which he gets to say whatever he wants and tilt scripture in the direction the winds of his doctrine blow. THAT, is a red flag right there to me. But I don't expect his adherents to have a problem with that.
However, if that is where you and p4t and others are getting your inspiration, then, you know, I gotta wonder cause that is basically Cole's notes on the entire thing. The original is always better.
At this point, I will state that I do not follow one person's doctrine or interpretation on the Bible which, LS, is. Much like Calvinism or Arianism. I believe the Bible speaks for itself and interprets itself. When I study, I use a gang, really a gang, of different things and will leave an open ended conclusion if I think it warrants it. That simply means I prefer to keep one eye on other possibilities if I do not understand the way I would like to or, in prayer and asking questions of God, I think I have not yet reached what He is saying either through the Bible or TEACHERS/EXPERTS on the Bible who pretty much con-flab the way I have just described.
Interestingly, Paul had not even been to Rome when he wrote the letter to the Romans. As you might well know, THIS book, above all others, is the most systematic outlining of Christian doctrine believers have. Paul is poignant in his description of our rebellion and sinful state and the GRACE of God as the antithesis of it. We are justified by GOD"S GRACE alone, which I know you will agree with, but the departure of LS from that statement is the conflict with scripture that you agree with....ie: behavior determines REAL salvation.
I am saying ALL Salvation that is of God is real whether onlookers think so or not.
The central theme of this letter, is GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS...NOT ours!
This, is God's doing. His perfect plan of redemption and attributed righteousness through His Son. This, is the CORE of the gospel and the ONLY salvation acceptable to the very ONE who had it in mind from Genesis on. And most likely beforehand as well. (and no, that is not a tip of the hat to Calvinism but probably true nonetheless)
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
Romans 1: 16-17
The gospel is the power of God for salvation. God's, GOD'S righteousness is revealed...never ours.
Now what does it mean by 'from faith to faith'? understand that the meaning of this expression, from faith to faith, is not one that has been settled upon since it's inception, however, my preference is the simple understanding that we grow in faith, that is, we go deeper in our faith and our understanding develops. It seems to be correct understanding in light of other scripture, so I go with that one.
Well you know what I said regarding that. What did you do? You took what you saw as an opportunity to correct my supposed lack of knowledge of God's attributes. You did that without having a clue whether or not I was including all I know or not in the statement I made.
The idea that if someone seems leaves out what another deems they should put in, means person 1 is lacking is ludicrous. so let's not do that.
That is what questions are for. Ask em. Don't assume. I would use up the rest of my life posting what I have learned, know, think or whatever cause I was saved very young whether or not MacArthur gives his gold star to that or not. Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me. I did. But we'll leave that for another post.
Who is denying that Jesus is Lord? Perhaps some might not express a la MacArthur, but MacArthur did not write the Bible and does not have dibs on understanding or living out the Christian life. Seriously!!! This is one of the problems I have with LS adherents. It seems to be 'our way or the highway' 'say it like we do or your salvation is iffy' That's how you come across whether or not you mean to or realize it. Then again, that may be exactly how you want to come across because that is certainly the way MacArthur comes across.
Does this all happen the instant we accept Jesus as our Savior? Nope, no and nuh uh. From faith to faith, right? No one's heart and mind are CONSTANTLY on Jesus unless they have absolutely nothing whatsoever going on at any time of day anywhere, in their lives. For example, married people sometimes think of each other.
This continuing in rebellion thing is added. Paul does not even talk about continuing in rebellion unless you are not saved and the Bible says rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. However, if a Christian is in sin, you can be sure God will let them go so far only and then correct them. Don't leave out the parts of the Bible that deal with God correcting us or you will emphasize only the rebellion with no cure and call a person unsaved. uh. that seems to be what you are doing anyway
I'm making this my cutoff point here and will address other scriptures in another post.
end of preamble
Romans 6 is a POSITIONAL explanation of the believer's life in Christ. It is not an endorsement of MacArthur's LS doctrine
for example, v.5-7, v.5 states we are UNITED with Christ in HIS likeness. THAT, is not an indication we achieve or have achieved any type of righteousness through our own conduct, desire to follow Christ, saying no to sin or anything else along those lines. Our entire salvation is based in what Christ has ACCOMPLISHED, His FINISHED work on the cross.
That is our BIBLICAL position. It DOES NOT CHANGE. and that is a major disagreement with those who adhere to LS. Having said that, it does not mean we continue in sin, as Paul said, God Forbid! However, I see it in these forums again and again, that that exact accusation seems to be the 'takeaway' finger pointing and stone throwing excuse for nastiness and name calling.
I am aware that MacArthur has published his very own STUDY Bible in which he gets to say whatever he wants and tilt scripture in the direction the winds of his doctrine blow. THAT, is a red flag right there to me. But I don't expect his adherents to have a problem with that.
However, if that is where you and p4t and others are getting your inspiration, then, you know, I gotta wonder cause that is basically Cole's notes on the entire thing. The original is always better.
At this point, I will state that I do not follow one person's doctrine or interpretation on the Bible which, LS, is. Much like Calvinism or Arianism. I believe the Bible speaks for itself and interprets itself. When I study, I use a gang, really a gang, of different things and will leave an open ended conclusion if I think it warrants it. That simply means I prefer to keep one eye on other possibilities if I do not understand the way I would like to or, in prayer and asking questions of God, I think I have not yet reached what He is saying either through the Bible or TEACHERS/EXPERTS on the Bible who pretty much con-flab the way I have just described.
Interestingly, Paul had not even been to Rome when he wrote the letter to the Romans. As you might well know, THIS book, above all others, is the most systematic outlining of Christian doctrine believers have. Paul is poignant in his description of our rebellion and sinful state and the GRACE of God as the antithesis of it. We are justified by GOD"S GRACE alone, which I know you will agree with, but the departure of LS from that statement is the conflict with scripture that you agree with....ie: behavior determines REAL salvation.
I am saying ALL Salvation that is of God is real whether onlookers think so or not.
The central theme of this letter, is GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS...NOT ours!
This, is God's doing. His perfect plan of redemption and attributed righteousness through His Son. This, is the CORE of the gospel and the ONLY salvation acceptable to the very ONE who had it in mind from Genesis on. And most likely beforehand as well. (and no, that is not a tip of the hat to Calvinism but probably true nonetheless)
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
Romans 1: 16-17
The gospel is the power of God for salvation. God's, GOD'S righteousness is revealed...never ours.
Now what does it mean by 'from faith to faith'? understand that the meaning of this expression, from faith to faith, is not one that has been settled upon since it's inception, however, my preference is the simple understanding that we grow in faith, that is, we go deeper in our faith and our understanding develops. It seems to be correct understanding in light of other scripture, so I go with that one.
Well you know what I said regarding that. What did you do? You took what you saw as an opportunity to correct my supposed lack of knowledge of God's attributes. You did that without having a clue whether or not I was including all I know or not in the statement I made.
The idea that if someone seems leaves out what another deems they should put in, means person 1 is lacking is ludicrous. so let's not do that.
That is what questions are for. Ask em. Don't assume. I would use up the rest of my life posting what I have learned, know, think or whatever cause I was saved very young whether or not MacArthur gives his gold star to that or not. Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me. I did. But we'll leave that for another post.
Who is denying that Jesus is Lord? Perhaps some might not express a la MacArthur, but MacArthur did not write the Bible and does not have dibs on understanding or living out the Christian life. Seriously!!! This is one of the problems I have with LS adherents. It seems to be 'our way or the highway' 'say it like we do or your salvation is iffy' That's how you come across whether or not you mean to or realize it. Then again, that may be exactly how you want to come across because that is certainly the way MacArthur comes across.
Does this all happen the instant we accept Jesus as our Savior? Nope, no and nuh uh. From faith to faith, right? No one's heart and mind are CONSTANTLY on Jesus unless they have absolutely nothing whatsoever going on at any time of day anywhere, in their lives. For example, married people sometimes think of each other.
This continuing in rebellion thing is added. Paul does not even talk about continuing in rebellion unless you are not saved and the Bible says rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. However, if a Christian is in sin, you can be sure God will let them go so far only and then correct them. Don't leave out the parts of the Bible that deal with God correcting us or you will emphasize only the rebellion with no cure and call a person unsaved. uh. that seems to be what you are doing anyway
I'm making this my cutoff point here and will address other scriptures in another post.
Note even close and you're just showing disdain for the brothers.
I could easily show you how your taking Gamaliel's words as Gospel truth conflict with many passages of Scripture and would contradict them. But you wouldn't learn anything and would find yourself a loophole even if it meant to be deceitful, and you'd go there as has been witnessed.
Anyhow it would be a waste of time on my part. You really need to think about that, and you're not willing. You will not be proven wrong even when what you say contradicts Scripture.
Why?
Because you have to be right in lieu of Scripture even if you have to mangle a text to the contradiction of much Scripture.
I could easily show you how your taking Gamaliel's words as Gospel truth conflict with many passages of Scripture and would contradict them. But you wouldn't learn anything and would find yourself a loophole even if it meant to be deceitful, and you'd go there as has been witnessed.
Anyhow it would be a waste of time on my part. You really need to think about that, and you're not willing. You will not be proven wrong even when what you say contradicts Scripture.
Why?
Because you have to be right in lieu of Scripture even if you have to mangle a text to the contradiction of much Scripture.
You would be wrong. I have posted that scripture and truth about "it is never about the money." 1 x times in 2017 before today and before that 3 x times in 2016.
Unless you went back throughout my whole time in CC and read those posts - you would be wrong.
And the reality is - I will post about it again if the subject of money comes up....
I have not heard preachers say to have your trust in riches. Perhaps there are some preachers doing that but I don't watch TV so I don't know what all ministers on TV are saying.
I have however heard people say that is what they "think" they are all saying when they heard a minister say that God wants to prosper us "so that" we can be a blessing to others.
Unless you went back throughout my whole time in CC and read those posts - you would be wrong.
And the reality is - I will post about it again if the subject of money comes up....
I have not heard preachers say to have your trust in riches. Perhaps there are some preachers doing that but I don't watch TV so I don't know what all ministers on TV are saying.
I have however heard people say that is what they "think" they are all saying when they heard a minister say that God wants to prosper us "so that" we can be a blessing to others.
I think they're saying they want you to give them your MONEEEEEEY!!!
I already posted that... here, let me help your small attention span self out...
2 Corinthians 11:28
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
Why are you calling Jesus a liar when he said:
Luke 21:34
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life
I doubt you even know what "surfeiting" is... look it up scoffer boy!
John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled
You deny God's instructions... false brother much??? Yes, you had better repent and start and quit denying God's Word because you are really starting to sound like a false brother... having a form of godliness but denying God's power
Yeah, you do know that Paul was not anywhere near close to the level Jesus walked in, right? You should not idolize Paul cause that's you know... idolatry which is a sin!
No, you're the only "faithless dog" up in here seeing you reject God's instructions as all religious people do who reject God's Word in favor of carnal man-made religion.
Jesus showed Paul the opposition he would face for accepting the call to accept what Jesus had called him to do.
Acts 9:15,16
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
This does not take away from Paul's admission that he WORRIED which is a sin and which opens the door to the devil
2 Corinthians 11:28
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
You do understand that Jesus was the only One who walked perfectly and ALL of God's servants made mistakes and even committed a few sins just like you are doing now by rejecting God's counsel???
Nah, you're a scoffer... you don't know nuthin.
Mocking Jesus is not going to help you out there false brother... Jesus cast the devil out, and Paul should have as well. Paul had to learn how to do that effectively which he did at the end of his life when we see him at the end of the Book of Acts preaching and NO man forbidding him to do so.
Only a false brother leading a powerless religious life would mock what Jesus said in the Great Commission!
Mark 16:17,18
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Now that's funny! I did not know you were a funny man too!
You have no clue how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and you deny and mock God's Word.... this is what carnal minded religious people do... you should be their leader!
Above your head and below your knees...
False brothers such as yourself will always be contradicting what God's Word says in favor of carnal, man-made religious teaching having a form of godliness and denying the power thereof.
Enjoy the rest of your faithless life, scoffer boy!
As though repeating what God has said in His Word... would be a problem?
It is for carnal minded religious people who have a form of godliness denying the power thereof
What about the underground churches in China? North Korea? What about Sudan?
What about all the churches in other third world countries?
So, you have given away ALL your stuff to the poor and are homeless???
If not... you are a hypocrite!
The people piled wealth at the feet of the Apostles at the Church at Jerusalem to the church there could be established... so they had means.
Not all the places in these third world countries are poor as you are claiming... many of them have food and shelter and all the things they need to live.
You really need to start believing the entire Word of God instead of being one of the devil's cherry pickers
Not just religion... he uses any and all situations to bring forth his dastardly deeds including sending nutjobs out to Christian talkboards to espouse carnal, man-made religous teaching that deny God's Word and His power.
a sad stats of affairs for those that reject God's Word indeed...
Dude, you should start liking girls... God is not down with that man love thing you seem to have going on there
2 Corinthians 11:28
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
Why are you calling Jesus a liar when he said:
Luke 21:34
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life
I doubt you even know what "surfeiting" is... look it up scoffer boy!
John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled
You deny God's instructions... false brother much??? Yes, you had better repent and start and quit denying God's Word because you are really starting to sound like a false brother... having a form of godliness but denying God's power
Yeah, you do know that Paul was not anywhere near close to the level Jesus walked in, right? You should not idolize Paul cause that's you know... idolatry which is a sin!
No, you're the only "faithless dog" up in here seeing you reject God's instructions as all religious people do who reject God's Word in favor of carnal man-made religion.
Jesus showed Paul the opposition he would face for accepting the call to accept what Jesus had called him to do.
Acts 9:15,16
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
This does not take away from Paul's admission that he WORRIED which is a sin and which opens the door to the devil
2 Corinthians 11:28
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
You do understand that Jesus was the only One who walked perfectly and ALL of God's servants made mistakes and even committed a few sins just like you are doing now by rejecting God's counsel???
Nah, you're a scoffer... you don't know nuthin.
Mocking Jesus is not going to help you out there false brother... Jesus cast the devil out, and Paul should have as well. Paul had to learn how to do that effectively which he did at the end of his life when we see him at the end of the Book of Acts preaching and NO man forbidding him to do so.
Only a false brother leading a powerless religious life would mock what Jesus said in the Great Commission!
Mark 16:17,18
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Now that's funny! I did not know you were a funny man too!
You have no clue how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and you deny and mock God's Word.... this is what carnal minded religious people do... you should be their leader!
Above your head and below your knees...
False brothers such as yourself will always be contradicting what God's Word says in favor of carnal, man-made religious teaching having a form of godliness and denying the power thereof.
Enjoy the rest of your faithless life, scoffer boy!
As though repeating what God has said in His Word... would be a problem?
It is for carnal minded religious people who have a form of godliness denying the power thereof
What about the underground churches in China? North Korea? What about Sudan?
What about all the churches in other third world countries?
So, you have given away ALL your stuff to the poor and are homeless???
If not... you are a hypocrite!
The people piled wealth at the feet of the Apostles at the Church at Jerusalem to the church there could be established... so they had means.
Not all the places in these third world countries are poor as you are claiming... many of them have food and shelter and all the things they need to live.
You really need to start believing the entire Word of God instead of being one of the devil's cherry pickers
Not just religion... he uses any and all situations to bring forth his dastardly deeds including sending nutjobs out to Christian talkboards to espouse carnal, man-made religous teaching that deny God's Word and His power.
a sad stats of affairs for those that reject God's Word indeed...
Dude, you should start liking girls... God is not down with that man love thing you seem to have going on there
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S
John 14:15 from Forth's post to me #299
John 14:15New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
this is proof of LS?
this is proof of loving Jesus more like it.
at any rate, maybe let us know what you are calling the commandments of Jesus because I have seen several different flavors around here
thanks
John 14:15New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
this is proof of LS?
this is proof of loving Jesus more like it.
at any rate, maybe let us know what you are calling the commandments of Jesus because I have seen several different flavors around here
thanks
Who was it that said "seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you?" Hmmmmm.
If you looked at the subject of money from all of God's Word, you'd see that God teaches how to properly handle money which includes NOT hording it up for self (which is what the TV preachers do as they give a little but keep a lot), but to use money to support the Gospel being preached.
Like it or not, this world works on a money system and even Jesus had to come up with a gold coin to pay taxes for Himself and His entourage. Jesus even had a treasurer so we know He was handling money in His ministry.
He was different than the preachers of today as He did not view money as a means for personal gain, but rather to use as a tool to do good with as He was known for giving to the poor... something He could not do if He had no money (the the account of the last supper and what the others thought when Judas got up and left... they though Jesus sent him out to give alms)
If you looked at the subject of money from all of God's Word, you'd see that God teaches how to properly handle money which includes NOT hording it up for self (which is what the TV preachers do as they give a little but keep a lot), but to use money to support the Gospel being preached.
Like it or not, this world works on a money system and even Jesus had to come up with a gold coin to pay taxes for Himself and His entourage. Jesus even had a treasurer so we know He was handling money in His ministry.
He was different than the preachers of today as He did not view money as a means for personal gain, but rather to use as a tool to do good with as He was known for giving to the poor... something He could not do if He had no money (the the account of the last supper and what the others thought when Judas got up and left... they though Jesus sent him out to give alms)