-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
As an ex-Sabbathkeeper, I'd recommend these resources if someone is seriously troubled by this issue:
Sabbath in Christ, Dale Ratzlaff I don't agree with every point, but in general it is a very good introduction to the topic by an ex SDA
The Sabbath Complete: And the Ascendency of First-Day Worship, Terrence O'Hare
A sermon series entitled "The Fourth Commandment" by Dan Caffese on SermonAudio
A summary of my position is that the Sabbath has been fulfilled in Christ, who is our spiritual rest, and that God is not concerned with days and meats. Additionally, the Mosaic Covenant is not in effect anymore, and those elements are part of the Mosaic Covenant.
You can debate alleged Torah observers for pages and pages on this topic, though. I was as bull-headed as an Armstrongite, and thought there was NO POSSIBILITY I was wrong on the topics of Sabbath, festival, and clean meat laws observance.
Every single argument they present can be refuted.
If, however, they want to observe their pick-and-choose, cafeteria plan Mosaic Covenant without making accusations about non-observers being in sin or unsaved, I have no issue with them. There may even be value in observing the shadows and types of the Mosaic Covenant. For me, though, I think it logically leads to looking down on non-observers as inferior or even unsaved. And since I abhor that aspect of it, I won't have anything to do with it.
Sabbath in Christ, Dale Ratzlaff I don't agree with every point, but in general it is a very good introduction to the topic by an ex SDA
The Sabbath Complete: And the Ascendency of First-Day Worship, Terrence O'Hare
A sermon series entitled "The Fourth Commandment" by Dan Caffese on SermonAudio
A summary of my position is that the Sabbath has been fulfilled in Christ, who is our spiritual rest, and that God is not concerned with days and meats. Additionally, the Mosaic Covenant is not in effect anymore, and those elements are part of the Mosaic Covenant.
You can debate alleged Torah observers for pages and pages on this topic, though. I was as bull-headed as an Armstrongite, and thought there was NO POSSIBILITY I was wrong on the topics of Sabbath, festival, and clean meat laws observance.
Every single argument they present can be refuted.
If, however, they want to observe their pick-and-choose, cafeteria plan Mosaic Covenant without making accusations about non-observers being in sin or unsaved, I have no issue with them. There may even be value in observing the shadows and types of the Mosaic Covenant. For me, though, I think it logically leads to looking down on non-observers as inferior or even unsaved. And since I abhor that aspect of it, I won't have anything to do with it.
Here's a link to the SermonAudio series I referred to:
Dan Caffese Sermons | SermonAudio.com
The speaker is Dan Caffese and the series is The Fourth Commandment.
As an ex-observer I find it impressive. His perspective is a bit different as he's talking about why some Reformed Baptists hold to Sunday as the "Sabbath" but the concepts he mentions are mostly applicable to Saturday Sabbath observers.
Dan Caffese Sermons | SermonAudio.com
The speaker is Dan Caffese and the series is The Fourth Commandment.
As an ex-observer I find it impressive. His perspective is a bit different as he's talking about why some Reformed Baptists hold to Sunday as the "Sabbath" but the concepts he mentions are mostly applicable to Saturday Sabbath observers.
Acts... And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.Okay question is why would they be meeting on the 7th day when it says first day. They where in Troas for a week preaching and teaching the word of Elohim. No doubt they taught here too at Synagogue on Sabbath. Coming together to meet with other disciples before morning Paul spoke more and before morning in an upper room he did preach as they ate. Paul had been teaching on Sabbath is all. When Eutychus fell out the window it was night of the first day of the week. Paul had been teaching for a whole week by then. So Sabbath was surly preached about and on. Not to mention the feast of unleavened bread and the omer count. Does this answer your question? John Talmid
In the first place, it says nothing about anything being done every first day of the week.
It relates the events of this one particular first day of the week, only.
It is not speaking of any customs, but of the events occurring as Paul and his companions
concluded their seven-day visit in passing by this town.
Jesus had introduced the “Lord’s Supper” as part of the Passover, at the beginning of
the annual “days of unleavened bread.” No longer need they kill lambs or eat the roasted
body of Passover lambs, after Christ, our Passover, had been once slain for us.
The Passover was ordained forever (Exodus 12:24).
At His last Passover supper, Jesus substituted the wine as the emblem of His blood,
instead of the blood of the slain lamb. He substituted the unleavened bread for
the roast body of the lamb as the symbol of His body, broken for us.
The disciples continued to observe the Passover annually, now in the form of
“the Lord’s Supper” using only the bread and wine, as a memorial (1Corinthians 11:24)
of Christ’s death (1Corinthians 11:26), showing His death till He comes again.
They continued to observe the Days of Unleavened Bread (Acts 20:6).
This year they had observed the Days of Unleavened Bread and the “Communion” service
at Philippi, after which they came to Troas in five days, where they remained seven days.
After the Sabbath day had ended, [at sunset], “upon the first day of the week…
the disciples came together to break bread.”
What “Break Bread” Means
Paul was going to walk a long ways across the point in the morning to catch up,
some of his companions allready set sail around the point by sea, [a work day].
he was going to be gone for awhile, hence last minute instructions before leaving.
People have assumed this expression to mean the taking of “Communion.”
But notice! Paul preached, and continued preaching until midnight.
They had no opportunity to stop and “break bread” until then. When Paul “therefore
was come up again”—after restoring the one who had fallen down from the third balcony
“and had broken bread, and eaten” Acts 20:11
Note it! “roken bread, and eaten.” This breaking bread was not Communion
—it was simply eating a meal. This expression was commonly used of old to designate
a meal. It still is used in that sense in parts of even the United States.
Notice Luke 22:16, where Jesus was introducing the Lord’s Supper, taking it with His disciples.
He said, “I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”
Yet, the day after His resurrection, after walking with the two disciples to Emmaus,
“..as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them”
(Luke 24:30). Here Jesus “brake bread,” but it was not the Lord’s Supper,
which He said He would not take again. It was a meal—“he sat at meat.”
Notice Acts 2:46. The disciples, “continuing daily with one accord in the temple,
and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness?.…”
Here again, “breaking bread” means eating a meal. Not on the first day of the week, but daily.
Again, when Paul was shipwrecked on the voyage to Rome, the sailors had been fasting out
of fright. But “Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day
that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing.
Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health?.… And when he had
thus spoken, he took bread, and gave thanks to God in presence of them all: and when he
had broken it, he began to eat” (Acts 27:33-35).
Here Paul broke bread to give to unconverted sailors who were hungry.
The truth is, nowhere in the Bible is the expression “breaking of bread,” or “to break bread,”
used to signify observance of “the Lord’s Supper.” In all these texts it means, simply,
eating a meal.So, when we read in Acts 20:7, 11, “the disciples came together to break bread,”
and how Paul had “broken bread, and eaten,” we know by Scripture interpretation
it referred only to eating food as a meal, not to a Communion service.
It relates the events of this one particular first day of the week, only.
It is not speaking of any customs, but of the events occurring as Paul and his companions
concluded their seven-day visit in passing by this town.
Jesus had introduced the “Lord’s Supper” as part of the Passover, at the beginning of
the annual “days of unleavened bread.” No longer need they kill lambs or eat the roasted
body of Passover lambs, after Christ, our Passover, had been once slain for us.
The Passover was ordained forever (Exodus 12:24).
At His last Passover supper, Jesus substituted the wine as the emblem of His blood,
instead of the blood of the slain lamb. He substituted the unleavened bread for
the roast body of the lamb as the symbol of His body, broken for us.
The disciples continued to observe the Passover annually, now in the form of
“the Lord’s Supper” using only the bread and wine, as a memorial (1Corinthians 11:24)
of Christ’s death (1Corinthians 11:26), showing His death till He comes again.
They continued to observe the Days of Unleavened Bread (Acts 20:6).
This year they had observed the Days of Unleavened Bread and the “Communion” service
at Philippi, after which they came to Troas in five days, where they remained seven days.
After the Sabbath day had ended, [at sunset], “upon the first day of the week…
the disciples came together to break bread.”
What “Break Bread” Means
Paul was going to walk a long ways across the point in the morning to catch up,
some of his companions allready set sail around the point by sea, [a work day].
he was going to be gone for awhile, hence last minute instructions before leaving.
People have assumed this expression to mean the taking of “Communion.”
But notice! Paul preached, and continued preaching until midnight.
They had no opportunity to stop and “break bread” until then. When Paul “therefore
was come up again”—after restoring the one who had fallen down from the third balcony
“and had broken bread, and eaten” Acts 20:11
Note it! “roken bread, and eaten.” This breaking bread was not Communion
—it was simply eating a meal. This expression was commonly used of old to designate
a meal. It still is used in that sense in parts of even the United States.
Notice Luke 22:16, where Jesus was introducing the Lord’s Supper, taking it with His disciples.
He said, “I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”
Yet, the day after His resurrection, after walking with the two disciples to Emmaus,
“..as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them”
(Luke 24:30). Here Jesus “brake bread,” but it was not the Lord’s Supper,
which He said He would not take again. It was a meal—“he sat at meat.”
Notice Acts 2:46. The disciples, “continuing daily with one accord in the temple,
and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness?.…”
Here again, “breaking bread” means eating a meal. Not on the first day of the week, but daily.
Again, when Paul was shipwrecked on the voyage to Rome, the sailors had been fasting out
of fright. But “Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day
that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing.
Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health?.… And when he had
thus spoken, he took bread, and gave thanks to God in presence of them all: and when he
had broken it, he began to eat” (Acts 27:33-35).
Here Paul broke bread to give to unconverted sailors who were hungry.
The truth is, nowhere in the Bible is the expression “breaking of bread,” or “to break bread,”
used to signify observance of “the Lord’s Supper.” In all these texts it means, simply,
eating a meal.So, when we read in Acts 20:7, 11, “the disciples came together to break bread,”
and how Paul had “broken bread, and eaten,” we know by Scripture interpretation
it referred only to eating food as a meal, not to a Communion service.
prove-all,
Because you quoted my comment to JohnTalmid I assume your post is directed to me for some reason. I don't know why you're preaching to the choir. Also, my post was with regard to JT's comment: "If they meet on the first day and Paul was going to leave in the early morning they where meeting on the seventh day and continued on until morning." By quoting me, I should think that would be what you should be addressing.
Because you quoted my comment to JohnTalmid I assume your post is directed to me for some reason. I don't know why you're preaching to the choir. Also, my post was with regard to JT's comment: "If they meet on the first day and Paul was going to leave in the early morning they where meeting on the seventh day and continued on until morning." By quoting me, I should think that would be what you should be addressing.
All this arguing and jumping through hoops and yet the word has not changed one bit.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gotta wonder when the very first time the 7th day comes to being Holy in the bible by Gods own works, Jesus who created it. and Yet it is ignored as if it has no baring on the issue.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gotta wonder when the very first time the 7th day comes to being Holy in the bible by Gods own works, Jesus who created it. and Yet it is ignored as if it has no baring on the issue.
What we should be addressing is determining what the Ssabbath is. We cannot go to doctrines of man that is in the church today, we must go to doctrines of the Lord. The definition of Sabbath in the word is not the word meeting, nor does the word church define it. The definition is in Genesis and it says to rest from our work that day, it doesn't say meet. We have our spiritual and physical life from the Lord. We work six days a week to sustain that, but one day is to be spent acknowledging God's part in our life.
When scripture tells us of meetings it means just that, it does not mean Sabbath. No meetings were given as commands, they were told about. Sabbath was given as a command.
It is not our reasoning and interpretation we are to listen to. The Pharisees did that. We are to listen to the Lord.
When scripture tells us of meetings it means just that, it does not mean Sabbath. No meetings were given as commands, they were told about. Sabbath was given as a command.
It is not our reasoning and interpretation we are to listen to. The Pharisees did that. We are to listen to the Lord.
Convocations! When the Lord guides what we are to do He doesn't kinda do it, the Lord tells it like it is. As scripture is studied, you will find that all scripture agrees with each other. If one scripture stands alone then we are to question our understanding of that scripture.
The seven feasts were to celebrate and know God's plan for our redemption. The Sabbaths were given to us for our physical and spiritual well being. The meetings were told about to share knowledge of the Lord.
The seven feasts were to celebrate and know God's plan for our redemption. The Sabbaths were given to us for our physical and spiritual well being. The meetings were told about to share knowledge of the Lord.
Sorry if I read the posts and questions wrong, without placing quote brackets
sometimes it makes things confusing. Was your question to John:
I do not see the sabbath mentioned also in that [one]verse. the Sabbath had just past.
the first day of the week [8 times metioned ]in the new testement is [a work day].
the Sabbath service could have been carried over to the next day, but not clear.
my comment
It was the first day of the week, or the first [work day] of the week.
Last edited:
What or who was the Sabbath? It was a day set aside for man, but realized in Christ. Do we find our rest on Saturday, or in Christ? I believe He is the Lord of the Sabbath, so the physical rest once recognized on a holy day, simply represented and became the spiritual rest that we now find in Christ everyday. His work ended on the cross, and to me, that's when our rest (salvation) really began, not from our works, but His.
Sorry it has taken so long to answer your question. Starting in Acts 20:6 we see Nissan 14, (Passover) 7 days for unleavened bread, 5 days to travel, and 7 days in Trohas. That means the end of the first week of Iyar, (the next month). There are 28 days in a scriptural month. That means they started a new month when they arrived in Trohas. They where gathering to eat a Sabbath meal together and planned to leave on the first day. This means they where gathered together on Sabbath before sunset also known as the first day. Night of Sabbath is the first day. Night of the 6th day is Sabbath. Not hard to see if we look at it with scripture goggles.
The Sabbath is a day friend founded by the very works Of God at creation. It is a day not a person. Jesus does indeed give us rest from sin and damnation praise his name. So He has both given us the 7th day as holy to rest and also rest from sin and fear of death. God also offered rest from sin in the days of the Jews but through faith in the coming of the messiah laid out in types and symbols concerning sacrifices in our place. Yet while they still had rest in Christ they still remember the day God had made holy.
Abraham laid hold of this hope even though the Son had not yet physically come. He had rest through faith just as we have rest through faith in Jesus. That rest from sin is what we have every day. But don't confuse that with the Sabbath day. While the lessons of faith are in that day, we learn what the Sabbath is from Gen 2 which was made before sin for a perfect world that God said was very good. For a perfect people who had not fallen.
Thus as it was before sin it is not a symbol and can not be done away with by the Messiah as the Messiah came to deal with sin. blessings.
Abraham laid hold of this hope even though the Son had not yet physically come. He had rest through faith just as we have rest through faith in Jesus. That rest from sin is what we have every day. But don't confuse that with the Sabbath day. While the lessons of faith are in that day, we learn what the Sabbath is from Gen 2 which was made before sin for a perfect world that God said was very good. For a perfect people who had not fallen.
Thus as it was before sin it is not a symbol and can not be done away with by the Messiah as the Messiah came to deal with sin. blessings.
The Sabbath and the commandments surrounding them are absolutely part of the Law that Jesus fulfilled by his sacrifice on the cross.
There is no specific day of the week to worship God because any and every day is appropriate to worship God.
To say that one can only worship God on the Sabbath (Saturday) makes mockery of the whole point of Jesus' ministry.
We are in personal relationship with Him, if we are believers of course, and as such do not need formal times, days, feasts etc to approach Him.
Yes, we are instructed to worship God corporately and I see nothing in the word of God precluding me and fellow believers from doing that on any day of the week.
To those who do choose to worship on the Sabbath - knock yourselves out - I have nothing to say about that.
To those who who are trying to insist that Sabbath worship is compulsory and the only proper way to worship God all you are doing are putting stumbling blocks in front of yourselves because you are absolutely losing sight of the bigger picture of what Jesus' ministry was all about.
Get out there and preach the Gospel to the lost - do that for a while and you will see your priorities change.
There is no specific day of the week to worship God because any and every day is appropriate to worship God.
To say that one can only worship God on the Sabbath (Saturday) makes mockery of the whole point of Jesus' ministry.
We are in personal relationship with Him, if we are believers of course, and as such do not need formal times, days, feasts etc to approach Him.
Yes, we are instructed to worship God corporately and I see nothing in the word of God precluding me and fellow believers from doing that on any day of the week.
To those who do choose to worship on the Sabbath - knock yourselves out - I have nothing to say about that.
To those who who are trying to insist that Sabbath worship is compulsory and the only proper way to worship God all you are doing are putting stumbling blocks in front of yourselves because you are absolutely losing sight of the bigger picture of what Jesus' ministry was all about.
Get out there and preach the Gospel to the lost - do that for a while and you will see your priorities change.