Not By Works
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i think they are commands. imperatives (you shall, and are able to do this) based on indicatives (because God in Christ has done this). like this:
Therefore be imitators of God (we are able to do this), as beloved children (because God has adopted us);
and walk in love (we do this), just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. (because God has done this)
had God not done what He did, we'd have no hope of bearing fruit.
i can't recall a place where Christ said He'll leave or forsake His own if they don't do the appropriate amount of work? or where He even indicated just how much work was.... sufficient? it must be a lot, though, for me to maintain my own salvation with.
do you know how much is enough to assist God with saving me? is there to be no assurance, just dread it's not enough till i die and get the verdict?
seems like such important information i'd have thought God would have made it clear.
but i don't mean to weary you with saying the same things over and over, so i'll bow out of the conversation.
just didn't want you to think i was ignoring your response.
HOW do we disagree if we both believe that we're to do good works after salvation?
What's the difference?
I've been trying to figure this out after all these pages.
I'm saying we MUST do good works after salvation.
We can't just not do anything or be as bad as we were before.
There are people here posting about how we're new creatures in Christ and then they go on to call people names and say really nasty things about them that does not show the love of Christ OR any good works.
So...
The question becomes:
Are we required to do good works after salvation or not?
Whatever the reason may be.
It would require a simple YES or NO answer, but no one wants to give it a simple yes or no.
Why?
Maybe because they don't want to feel OBLIGATED to do good works?
Jesus DID OBLIGAGE US, did He not??
What's the difference?
I've been trying to figure this out after all these pages.
I'm saying we MUST do good works after salvation.
We can't just not do anything or be as bad as we were before.
There are people here posting about how we're new creatures in Christ and then they go on to call people names and say really nasty things about them that does not show the love of Christ OR any good works.
So...
The question becomes:
Are we required to do good works after salvation or not?
Whatever the reason may be.
It would require a simple YES or NO answer, but no one wants to give it a simple yes or no.
Why?
Maybe because they don't want to feel OBLIGATED to do good works?
Jesus DID OBLIGAGE US, did He not??
For those that like to feed themselves on Christ. I highly recommend this teaching on how Jacob became Israel. Things in the Old Testament speak of the real substance which is Christ Himself.
It speaks of living from the flesh or living from the spirit which what God says is true about us because of Christ being in us. Without Him we can do nothing.
Jacob and his twin brother Isaac are an example of the Christian life - one is of the flesh - the other is of the new creation when it becomes "Israel".
This teaching shows how we are transformed by "beholding Christ in our inner man". It is a work of the Holy Spirit as we behold Christ Himself. It is one of the ways of God in which the kingdom operates from.
The fruit of this will produce good works coming from His life being manifested in and through us as we participate in it with the Lord.
Here is the link
Seeing Grace: Audio Archive
And here is the specific teaching I am referring to.
James Barron
Experiencing Life in a Different Dimension
Sunday, May 9, 2010 9:30am
Duration: 37:02 (35.6MB) mp3
It speaks of living from the flesh or living from the spirit which what God says is true about us because of Christ being in us. Without Him we can do nothing.
Jacob and his twin brother Isaac are an example of the Christian life - one is of the flesh - the other is of the new creation when it becomes "Israel".
This teaching shows how we are transformed by "beholding Christ in our inner man". It is a work of the Holy Spirit as we behold Christ Himself. It is one of the ways of God in which the kingdom operates from.
The fruit of this will produce good works coming from His life being manifested in and through us as we participate in it with the Lord.
Here is the link
Seeing Grace: Audio Archive
And here is the specific teaching I am referring to.
James Barron
Experiencing Life in a Different Dimension
Sunday, May 9, 2010 9:30am
Duration: 37:02 (35.6MB) mp3
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A
Good works are necessary to GLORIFY GOD.
NOT EARN OR KEEP SALVATION.
The WHY motive that determines if the works are "good" by God's standards or just outwardly "good" looking or sounding by the world's standards.
The world judges outward appearance.
God judged inner motives.
If you do "good" works to earn or keep salvation, then you do them for the WRONG MOTIVE.
The world may call those works good, but God calls them filthy rags. Only Faith in Jesus redeeming work on the cross, His resurrection and being born again by His spirit can save a person.NOTHING ELSE or you build on cracked foundations.
The only good and righteous works are done for God's glory with NO EXPECTATION OF REWARD OR PRAISE OR EVEN THANKS. These good works seen by God as GOOD CAN Only done by following the Holy Spirit and only by HIS power and not our own.
NOT EARN OR KEEP SALVATION.
The WHY motive that determines if the works are "good" by God's standards or just outwardly "good" looking or sounding by the world's standards.
The world judges outward appearance.
God judged inner motives.
If you do "good" works to earn or keep salvation, then you do them for the WRONG MOTIVE.
The world may call those works good, but God calls them filthy rags. Only Faith in Jesus redeeming work on the cross, His resurrection and being born again by His spirit can save a person.NOTHING ELSE or you build on cracked foundations.
The only good and righteous works are done for God's glory with NO EXPECTATION OF REWARD OR PRAISE OR EVEN THANKS. These good works seen by God as GOOD CAN Only done by following the Holy Spirit and only by HIS power and not our own.
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You know I have said that good works follow salvation and as Jesus said if you love me you will obey me.
Do you honestly think that we are meant to obey 100% and if not we are out or don't love Jesus?
The difference we have is that you say our obedience keeps us saved so you are saying if we are not obedient we will not be saved, at what point do we draw the line.
I say obedience is as a result of salvation a by product of it.
Truth is let's say someone who is not a believer does better good works than a believer who is saved, genuine confession of Jesus as Lord.
Who is saved?
I am surprised you asked me the whether we are required to do good works after salvation, really quite surprised.
Anyway the difference is for the reasons, you do it to keep saved I do it because I am saved.
NOTHING we do here on earth, will keep us saved.
EXCEPT for having faith and belief in Jesus.
We CANNOT lose salvation, ever. UNLESS we deny God outright, as Peter did when He denied knowing Jesus.
So all the works you've done your entire life, will not save you nor keep you saved.
JESUS SAVES.
WORKS DON'T.
EXCEPT for having faith and belief in Jesus.
We CANNOT lose salvation, ever. UNLESS we deny God outright, as Peter did when He denied knowing Jesus.
So all the works you've done your entire life, will not save you nor keep you saved.
JESUS SAVES.
WORKS DON'T.
N
would you agree maybe you misspoke here?
it is always grace thats keeps us saved
but those who have no works of the Holy spirit
arent saved and their lack of these works reveal that
but dont disqualify them because the lack thereof shows their faith was dead
therefor never accepted grace
(again not using authority here just asking a question)
it is always grace thats keeps us saved
but those who have no works of the Holy spirit
arent saved and their lack of these works reveal that
but dont disqualify them because the lack thereof shows their faith was dead
therefor never accepted grace
(again not using authority here just asking a question)
This is true...but the disconnect I believe is from how we read the words of Jesus.
Is it a command? Or is a truth spoken? I believe He speaks this as a truth which is what you are saying that good works follow salvation. A result of being saved. I don't think we even think about it so much as why we are doing them. But do them because of we love something...in some manner.
Out of compassion? Out of Jesus being within? I think so.
Is it a command? Or is a truth spoken? I believe He speaks this as a truth which is what you are saying that good works follow salvation. A result of being saved. I don't think we even think about it so much as why we are doing them. But do them because of we love something...in some manner.
Out of compassion? Out of Jesus being within? I think so.
We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
Yes we are being who we are rather than trying to be what we think should attain to be.
Who are we what are we?
We are precious children of the Father, Christ I us, we in Christ.
Our life is hidden with Christ in God (got know idea what that means so if someone can explain it to me please do)
My son is my son, he doesn't have to do, to be my son.
He knows he is my son even when he gets it wrong. That doesn't stop him being my son.
If we truly understand who we are then being who we are is a natural outworking.
Good post Grace
Who are we what are we?
We are precious children of the Father, Christ I us, we in Christ.
Our life is hidden with Christ in God (got know idea what that means so if someone can explain it to me please do)
My son is my son, he doesn't have to do, to be my son.
He knows he is my son even when he gets it wrong. That doesn't stop him being my son.
If we truly understand who we are then being who we are is a natural outworking.
Good post Grace
A
"
Our life is hidden with Christ in God "
Some people think this phrase is a cloak for sin. However it's not.
The concept is that the purpose of our lives can't be truly be understood until we stand with God and look back on our lives.
We have to also figure out what it means "to die to this life"
*****
Colossians 3:3 ►
New International Version
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
New Living Translation
For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God.
English Standard Version
For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Berean Study Bible
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Berean Literal Bible
For you have died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
New American Standard Bible
For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
King James Bible
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Our life is hidden with Christ in God "
Some people think this phrase is a cloak for sin. However it's not.
The concept is that the purpose of our lives can't be truly be understood until we stand with God and look back on our lives.
We have to also figure out what it means "to die to this life"
*****
Colossians 3:3 ►
New International Version
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
New Living Translation
For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God.
English Standard Version
For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Berean Study Bible
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Berean Literal Bible
For you have died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
New American Standard Bible
For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
King James Bible
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Thanks for responding.
I myself have never thought it's a cloak for sin (and I know you are not saying that about me)
I like the NLT verse you have posted.
So is it the life I once lived, that being in sin and apart from God but now coming to Jesus the new life I have been given is one that does not want to sin and be like Jesus is now the real me?
Whats the hidden part all about?
I myself have never thought it's a cloak for sin (and I know you are not saying that about me)
I like the NLT verse you have posted.
So is it the life I once lived, that being in sin and apart from God but now coming to Jesus the new life I have been given is one that does not want to sin and be like Jesus is now the real me?
Whats the hidden part all about?