Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues

[BenFTW]

I don't know any interpreters sadly and even if I did I couldn't do an experiment like that because I only do this when I am lead to it's never on my own accord and I attempted to do so without the Lord telling me to in my heart it wouldn't work.
But that is amazing what you experienced and I guess it makes sense now why sometimes I go through this. It isn't always simply feeling lead to pray for people for me though, sometimes I get an image in my minds eye of death about to take a persons life and I say to death in a kind angry tone you will take me in their place or sometimes I see in my minds eye satan tormenting a person and I yell BACK OFF and then realize I had actually said this loud and only just realized it but the words just lunged forward like i became so protectively angry

The thing with tongues is that they are volitional by nature. We choose to do them, or at least in my experience it is something that is done at will. However, it isn't us doing what we want, praying what we want, because the gift itself is dependent upon the Holy Spirit to give the utterance. So when we direct our tongues towards something in mind, the Lord could just as easily being praying (or our spirit praying what He has given it) as making a comment on something.

One time I was chatting with my brother in law in a parking lot when he saw a spider on the car. I looked at it and spoke in tongues and he interpreted what was said and the Lord said, "Beautiful." Its interesting how we may see a spider and for some fear arises, but God sees His creation and says, "Beautiful."

The gift of tongues is multifaceted, it has many uses and purposes. It can be used in a number of ways, to praise/worship, to fellowship with God, to intercede for others or places, and even to minister what the Lord wishes to say to another (edify).

 

[Blain]

The thing with tongues is that they are volitional by nature. We choose to do them, or at least in my experience it is something that is done at will. However, it isn't us doing what we want, praying what we want, because the gift itself is dependent upon the Holy Spirit to give the utterance. So when we direct our tongues towards something in mind, the Lord could just as easily being praying (or our spirit praying what He has given it) as making a comment on something.

One time I was chatting with my brother in law in a parking lot when he saw a spider on the car. I looked at it and spoke in tongues and he interpreted what was said and the Lord said, "Beautiful." Its interesting how we may see a spider and for some fear arises, but God sees His creation and says, "Beautiful."

The gift of tongues is multifaceted, it has many uses and purposes. It can be used in a number of ways, to praise/worship, to fellowship with God, to intercede for others or places, and even to minister what the Lord wishes to say to another (edify).

Maybe it works differently for different people as I have never been able to make it happen on my own accord, I have tried before when a friend said he had the gift of tongues and I aid I didn't think I did and he said to try to speak in tongues right there. I prayed and talked to god but nothing happened and honestly it felt forced almost fake.

I have always been one to wait on the Lord and act only upon his leading so trying to speak in tongues on my own accord just felt wrong but that isn't to say that tongues works the same for everyone.

 

[WebersHome]

-
Here's an example of a sensible, practical use of tongues.

● Rev 14:6-7 . . I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the
everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to
Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who
made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!

The everlasting gospel is very elementary. Pretty much all it says to
everyone who hears it is:

1• There's a supreme being.

2• He deserves respect.

3• There's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and

4• The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product
of intelligent design.

Giving "glory" to God simply indicates giving someone credit where credit is
due; and "worship" basically just simply means admiration.

It's quite natural to admire celebrities, pro athletes, and super achievers-- to
give them credit where credit is due --but not quite so natural to do the
same for their creator.

Anyway, point being: the angel's message will be intelligible to everyone
who hears him no matter what language they speak and/or understand.
Modern tonguers would do well to use their gift in like manner instead of
only blowing bubbles all the time.

/

 

[hornetguy]

Maybe it works differently for different people as I have never been able to make it happen on my own accord, I have tried before when a friend said he had the gift of tongues and I aid I didn't think I did and he said to try to speak in tongues right there. I prayed and talked to god but nothing happened and honestly it felt forced almost fake.

I have always been one to wait on the Lord and act only upon his leading so trying to speak in tongues on my own accord just felt wrong but that isn't to say that tongues works the same for everyone.

It sounds to me like you are doing it right... wait for the Spirit to give you words to say.

 

[BenFTW]

It sounds to me like you are doing it right... wait for the Spirit to give you words to say.

Let me ask you, why does the Apostle Paul give guidelines on the use of the gift of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14? Because it can be misused, right? So, if the gift can be misused and operated in a setting without interpretation, doesn't that mean people can do it without waiting for an unction by the Holy Spirit?

The point is that the Holy Spirit gives the utterance, but it is we who initiate, if you will, the gift. You wouldn't blame the Holy Spirit for disorder, now would you? So if someone is genuinely operating in the gift, and others are not being edified because no one is interpreting, would you say, "Whoa Holy Spirit, now is not the time" or would you acknowledge that, indeed, the gift is volitional?

Either the gift is volitional or you're making a case that God is a god of disorder. The gift of tongues is a volitional, done at will, gift otherwise the Apostle Paul wouldn't have urged tongue speakers to stay silent in the church if no one is interpreting. The fact that it is possible to do it out of order itself is revealing to the fact that it is done at will.

God's word says to pray without ceasing. The gift of tongues can be used for prayer, so I would argue that one should yes operate in the gift when they feel an unction from the Holy Spirit, but even when they do not because it is meant to edify oneself and "build up one's most holy faith" (Jude 1:20).

 

[WebersHome]

-
● 1Cor 14:1 . .Eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.

The koiné Greek word for "prophecy" is propheteuo (prof-ate-yoo'-o) which
primarily means to foretell events, but it also means to speak under
inspiration; for example: Old Testament's prophets spoke under inspiration
about Christ. (1Pet 1:10-11)

Abel was a prophet (Luke 11:50-51) and so was Abraham (Gen 20:7). I
think it's fairly safe to assume that both of those men, at some time in their
lives, spoke under inspiration about Christ. (cf. John 8:59)

Modern prophets speak under inspiration about Christ. (Rev 19:10)

Speaking under inspiration about Christ is far and away more valuable than
the gift of tongues, for example:

● 1Cor 14:22-25 . . If the whole church comes together and everyone
speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers
come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever
or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is
prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be
judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall
down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

In other words: tonguers can actually drive people away from Christ.

● John 6:44 . . No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
him

The Father's primary tool of choice for drawing people to Christ isn't
tongues, no, it's prophecy;

● 1Cor 1:21 . . It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them
that believe.

Noah was a preacher (2Pet 2:5). Had enough of the antediluvians listened to
him, they might have averted the Flood. (In Noah's day the gift of tongues
wasn't necessary because the whole earth spoke the same language.)

In the very early days of Jesus' church, tonguers were useful to Christ for
propagating his message because people heard the tonguers speaking
honest to gosh, real-life languages that audiences understood. But in our
day and age, tonguers typically don't speak honest to gosh real-life
languages but instead blather. As a result, tonguers are looked upon with
the same disdain as those that hurl themselves in the aisle, faint, scream,
shout, and/or dance with rattlesnakes.

In other words: tonguers are usually dismissed as kooks. Well; not too many
sensible people care to accommodate kooks so I highly recommend speaking
about Christ with an intelligible language. Here in my country, English is a
good choice because most people can understand it without requiring the
services of a translator.

/

 

[presidente]

-
● 1Cor 14:39 . .Do not forbid speaking in tongues.

That rule applies only to people who actually have the gift of tongues
because according to Rom 12:4, 1Cor 12:10-11, 1Cor 12:29-30, and 1Cor
14:5 not everyone does.

/

Not true. If you are not able to speak in tongues, you still are not allowed to forbid it.

 

[presidente]

One of the issues for me is that there are no reported proven examples of xenoglossy – anywhere.

How can you make that assertion? That's not a rational statement unless you claim to be omniscient. Pneumareview, I think, had an article up about a documented case of speaking in tongues housed at a non-Charismatic Lutheran seminary library as while back.

In every case that has ever been studied, the speaker was at some time in one way or another exposed to the foreign language s/he spoke. Despite this, the Pentecostal/Charismatic community seems to be rife with examples of xenoglossy. As someone stated, they do not speak Spanish, yet supposedly uttered something in the language when speaking in tongues.

From a Biblical perspective, the testimony of two or three witnesses is a means of establishing evidence.

I've read and heard a number of accounts of people who spoke in tongues at the Azusa Street revival, where what they spoke in tongues was understood by a native speaker. LA was an international city with Russian, Spanish, Japanese, etc. speakers. A preacher who went to Azusa Street named Garr spoke in tongues, a language which did not sound like what he experienced when he normally spoke in tongues, and an Indian identified it as Bengali. When he went to India, he found out that he couldn't make whatever tongue he spoke be the language of the region there.

I haven't recognized speaking in tongues in my own language, but I've spoken with two people who have experienced speaking in tongues and someone else identified what they spoke as utterance in their own language, and one person who heard a Chinese grandma in a remote village in China speaking in tongues in English. She said it sounded like speaking a Psalm. I also correspond with a theologian and pastor on Facebook who knows of two German-speaking Europeans who don't know English but speak it in tongues. One speaks KJV English.

I don't buy your theory that English and Spanish are so common people can speak the languages without ever learning them. If your brother can speak Spanish, he must have had enough 'contextual' exposure to it for it to make sense to him. Linguists have found that German kids who watched Dutch cartoons over a relatively long period of time did not pick up the language. But these languages are quite common in parts of the world, and it is more believable for the skeptic that an individual in Asia had never learned Lithuanian or Mayan than English.

 

[presidente]

Kavik wrote

Interpretation may again also be inspired by one’s deep faith and beliefs, but the relatively generic messages of most interpretations do not suggest anything that is divinely inspired. This is clearly evidenced in that if one gives the same glossic string to ten different people who can interpret tongues, one will get ten different interpretations typically non-related to each other. In this respect, glossolalia fails even the most basic criteria which define communication itself, let alone language.

I have never experienced one tongue being intepreted multiple ways. Most of us probably haven't seen such a thing, or don't know of evidence for this. I suppose someone could wrongly interpret tongues. And there could be someone who gets a prophecy and doesn't differentiate whether it is a tongue or a prophecy, and the silence after a tongue is given is the chance to prophecy.

Be that as it may, I have known a couple of people who have experienced a situation where someone spoke in tongues and they got the interpretation, but someone else gave the same interpretation before they could say it. My college roommate experienced that. I knew someone who experienced that with giving a prophecy. I've gotten a word of knowledge a couple of times and someone else gave it as a part of a prophecy before I could say it.

I've also experienced going to one church in one town, someone prophesies something over me, and then someone in another two I go to prophesies that again, or multiple people prophesying or getting words of knowledge about the same thing. The Spirit witnessed to Paul, he said, in every city, of what awaited him in Jerusalem. So this sort of thing happened in the first century, too.

 

[garee]

I have never experienced one tongue being intepreted multiple ways. Most of us probably haven't seen such a thing, or don't know of evidence for this. I suppose someone could wrongly interpret tongues. And there could be someone who gets a prophecy and doesn't differentiate whether it is a tongue or a prophecy, and the silence after a tongue is given is the chance to prophecy.

Be that as it may, I have known a couple of people who have experienced a situation where someone spoke in tongues and they got the interpretation, but someone else gave the same interpretation before they could say it. My college roommate experienced that. I knew someone who experienced that with giving a prophecy. I've gotten a word of knowledge a couple of times and someone else gave it as a part of a prophecy before I could say it.

I've also experienced going to one church in one town, someone prophesies something over me, and then someone in another two I go to prophesies that again, or multiple people prophesying or getting words of knowledge about the same thing. The Spirit witnessed to Paul, he said, in every city, of what awaited him in Jerusalem. So this sort of thing happened in the first century, too.

Tongues in the past were a sign for those who believe not (no faith) . Prophecy, an interpretation of God, as a revelation to us as the Holy Spirit works in us, He gives us His understanding or interpretation. It is for those who do believe (have a faith that comes from hearing God ).

When Peter spoke, the Holy Spirit that dwelt in Peter having put His words in Peters mouth (prophecy) every nation under heaven (no one knows how many) heard it to the salvation of their soul. They heard it in their own language, as God gave each one of them his interpretation in their own tongues. Neither tongues nor prophecy is after any man, as a sign a person is with God.

Tongues were a work of God when he was still adding new revelations or interpretations to His book of the law, the bible. That possibility of another in any manner is sealed up till the end of time.

If there is no interrupter (God does not interpreting ) , the speaker that speaks a another language should be silent or he will be speaking into the air .They will be a barbarian, to the speaker and the speaker a barbarian to them .Takes two to communicate.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Acts 2: 5-12

 

[RickyZ]

Tongues were a work of God when he was still adding new revelations or interpretations to His book of the law, the bible.

I just can't see how an eternal God, who is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, could offer up tongues as a 'limited time offer' (But I can picture the infomercial that would make ... "and if you call now, we'll throw in a gift of healing absolutely freeeeeeeee!")

 

[Grace777x70]

It can be a very unwise thing to replace Christ Himself and the relying on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of God to us - with the bible itself. Replacing Christ for the bible is not wise. The scriptures are there to point to Christ.

John 5:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

[SUP]40 [/SUP] and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

 

[notuptome]

I just can't see how an eternal God, who is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, could offer up tongues as a 'limited time offer' (But I can picture the infomercial that would make ... "and if you call now, we'll throw in a gift of healing absolutely freeeeeeeee!")

Tongues are not God!

1 Cor 13:8 is the unchanging word of God and it says that tongues, prophecy and knowledge end or vanish away.

Start with a logical fallacy and end with a simple fallacy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[stonesoffire]

after he had risen.
　
Mar 16:15　 Then he told them, "As you go into all the world, proclaim the gospel to everyone.　


Mar 16:16　 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever doesn't believe will be condemned.
　
Mar 16:17　 "These are the signs that will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
　
Mar 16:18　 they will pick up snakes with their hands; even if they drink any deadly poison it will not hurt them; and they will place their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
　
Mar 16:19　 So the Lord Jesus, after talking with his disciples, was taken up to heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
　
Mar 16:20　 Then his disciples went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord kept working with them and confirming the message by the signs that accompanied it.

Holy Spirit is the presence of God in the earth. If He should ever leave? Chaos will reign.

His signs are His power that shows truth of the gospel is being preached. You just can't say that anything of His Spirit has left...His evidence is everywhere in this world. Paul said the signs were evidence.

Unbelieving believers...I was once this way too...may God have mercy on us.

　

 

[stonesoffire]

The snakes...Paul is the picture of this...not the snake handlers that tempt the Lord. Don't even try to bring this up.

 

[BenFTW]

Tongues are not God!

1 Cor 13:8 is the unchanging word of God and it says that tongues, prophecy and knowledge end or vanish away.

Start with a logical fallacy and end with a simple fallacy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I recently made a thread on tongues and instead of rewriting my response that would address this, I'll just share it down below.

I will address the notion of "the Apostolic age" and how, supposedly, certain gifts such as the gift of tongues ceased.

DON'T GET IT TWISTED
------------------------

​

The gift of tongues ceased (false): 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 King James Version (KJV)

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

First lets make something clear. This verse doesn't say that tongues have ceased, it says "they shall cease." Meaning they will cease at a certain time, but this verse does not say they "have ceased." So then, what is the criteria by which the gift ceases? When will the gift of tongues, along with knowledge and prophecy cease?

Look at verse 10, it says "when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." What is "that which is perfect" in reference to? The Cessationist's perspective is that it refers to the Bible, the completed canon of scripture. There are some problems with this though, as we will see that to take such a perspective would contradict the Apostle Paul's words. It forces a dilemma.

"What", might you ask, "is the dilemma?" Read verse 12. The rebuttal to the Cessatonist is the now and the then. Along with that the apostle Paul speaks of being "face to face." With what? Or better stated, with whom? "That which is perfect." You see, if that which is perfect is in reference to the Bible we have a problem.

The Apostle Paul died in ad 62-64, which is hundreds of years before the completed canon of scripture (the Bible) came to be. How is it that Paul prophesied that he would be "face to face" with "that which is perfect" and how now he "sees through a glass darkly" but then "face to face" he would "know even as also I am known" if it refers to the Bible?

Either the Apostle Paul gave a false prophecy or the Cessationist is wrong in how they interpret "that which is perfect" to refer to the Bible. Since the Apostle Paul was used by God and inspired by the Holy Spirit I lean towards Cessationists having it wrong and this is in reference, possibly, the 2nd Coming of Christ.

Either way, verse 12 puts to bed the Cessationsist's argument that it refers to the completed New Testament as he didn't live to see it face to face.

So what does this mean?: 1 Corinthians 14:39 King James Version (KJV)

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

This means that the gift of tongues hasn't ceased because "that which is perfect is come" hasn't yet happened, and therefore there still exists the three gifts defined in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Therefore, "forbid not to speak with tongues" as it is still a viable gift that the Holy Spirit distributes at His discretion for its manifestation unto the edification of self and others.

The Apostolic Age ended therefore so did certain gifts (false): Ephesians 4:11-16King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

These offices (and gifting) are still in operation today, because the body of Christ still needs edifying, perfecting, and the work of ministry still needs to be done. Not to mention that the gift of tongues wasn't something only the apostles did, but many of the disciples (at Pentecost) did it and even new converts spoke in tongues. Hence, even if there was an apostolic age to insinuate that at its end certain gifts that weren't only for the apostles ceased is just horrendous logic.

Cessationism ends up quenching the Holy Spirit because it tries to dictate how the Lord works and limit Him with the manifestations He has given to profit all. God wants us edifying one another, and the gift of tongues is one such manifestation that does that through interpretation. Once again, forbid not to speak in tongues as the Lord saw it as an essential gift to bestow to the saints along with the other gifts.

 

[WebersHome]

-
● 1Cor 12:27-31 . . Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a
part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second
prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of
healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and
those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Q: Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?

A: No, No, No, No, No, No, and No!

● Rom 12:3-6 . . Just as each of us has one body with many members, and
these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are
many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have
different gifts, according to the grace given us.

Q: Well; if 1Cor 12:27-31 and Rom 12:3-6 are hard and fast rules; then why
do so many tonguers insist that every true Christian is supposed to have the
gift of tongues?

A: Because to their way of thinking; tongues are the proof that they have
been baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ as per 1Cor 12:13; and
thus sealed for the day of redemption as per Eph 1:13 and Eph 4:30. Ergo:
invalidate their tongues, and you can just imagine how frightened and
insecure that tonguers would suddenly become due to uncertainty whether
they might actually be on a road to hell.

/

 

[Kavik]

Posted by Kavik
One of the issues for me is that there are no reported proven examples of xenoglossy – anywhere.
How can you make that assertion? That's not a rational statement unless you claim to be omniscient. Pneumareview, I think, had an article up about a documented case of speaking in tongues housed at a non-Charismatic Lutheran seminary library as while back.


OK – perhaps phrased wrong – There are no documented provable cases of xenoglossy. In every case of reported xenoglossy which has ever been studied, the speaker was found to have been exposed to the target language (either consciously or subconsciously) at some point in their life.

In every case that has ever been studied, the speaker was at some time in one way or another exposed to the foreign language s/he spoke. Despite this, the Pentecostal/Charismatic community seems to be rife with examples of xenoglossy. As someone stated, they do not speak Spanish, yet supposedly uttered something in the language when speaking in tongues.

From a Biblical perspective, the testimony of two or three witnesses is a means of establishing evidence.

Perhaps back then yes, but in modern times it’s easy enough (in theory) to prove or disprove in more concrete ways than just hearsay.

I've read and heard a number of accounts of people who spoke in tongues at the Azusa Street revival, where what they spoke in tongues was understood by a native speaker. LA was an international city with Russian, Spanish, Japanese, etc. speakers. A preacher who went to Azusa Street named Garr spoke in tongues, a language which did not sound like what he experienced when he normally spoke in tongues, and an Indian identified it as Bengali. When he went to India, he found out that he couldn't make whatever tongue he spoke be the language of the region there.


Missionaries from the Azusa Street Revival were convinced that what they were doing was xenoglossy and that language learning was completely unnecessary – upon arrival in various countries not one could even communicate basic day to day needs. Garr was convinced he could speak Bengali and his wife, Chinese. One way he was convinced was that two Indian boys told him he was speaking Bengali (were they serious or were they just humoring him or just having a bit of fun at his expense – one has to wonder). In any event, after arriving in India he quickly discovered no one understood a word he said in T-speech.

The result of these missionary ‘experiments’ was that Pentecostals were quickly becoming skeptical of tongues in general. After repeated proof that these tongues were not examples of xenoglossia, Parham’s doctrine of tongues had to be completely revamped. Pentecostalism had to rethink the entire phenomenon. They now needed another explanation for what they were practicing since it became painfully obvious real languages was not it – the end result was the modern Pentecostal “re-definition”, so to speak, of tongues as “heavenly languages” or “prayer languages” (rather than real languages).


I haven't recognized speaking in tongues in my own language, but I've spoken with two people who have experienced speaking in tongues and someone else identified what they spoke as utterance in their own language, and one person who heard a Chinese grandma in a remote village in China speaking in tongues in English. She said it sounded like speaking a Psalm. I also correspond with a theologian and pastor on Facebook who knows of two German-speaking Europeans who don't know English but speak it in tongues. One speaks KJV English.


That’s possible but again, no idea as to whether or not the speakers ever had exposure to the target language – was it dialogue, short monologue, a phrase or two or just a few words.

Who said it sounded like speaking a psalm? The person who recognized it as English (who presumably would have known that she was saying), or the speaker?

German speaking Europeans who don’t know English is a virtual oxymoron; English is a required subject in schools in Germany and I dare say a good 30% of modern spoken German one hears on the streets is comprised of English. And that was 30 years ago – can’t even imagine how much that’s increased since then. I can’t regard that as report as legit.


I don't buy your theory that English and Spanish are so common people can speak the languages without ever learning them. If your brother can speak Spanish, he must have had enough 'contextual' exposure to it for it to make sense to him. Linguists have found that German kids who watched Dutch cartoons over a relatively long period of time did not pick up the language. But these languages are quite common in parts of the world, and it is more believable for the skeptic that an individual in Asia had never learned Lithuanian or Mayan than English.


No, I’m not saying people can speak them with a good degree of fluency, but I’m certainly suggesting that they are common enough so that people can pick up quite a few words and phrases. At least here in North America with respect to Spanish. As one small example, walk into a Lowe’s or Home Depot and every single thing printed with respect to store signage, directions, policies, etc. is translated right there in front of you. With English, it’s a required subject in more countries than it is not. You’d have to make a pretty good effort to avoid it.

Dutch vs. German – I’d have to know more about the experiment. Dutch and German are close enough – I’m not sure they’d necessarily need to pick it up to be able to speak it, but it really depends on the situation.

Kavik wrote
Interpretation may again also be inspired by one’s deep faith and beliefs, but the relatively generic messages of most interpretations do not suggest anything that is divinely inspired. This is clearly evidenced in that if one gives the same glossic string to ten different people who can interpret tongues, one will get ten different interpretations typically non-related to each other. In this respect, glossolalia fails even the most basic criteria which define communication itself, let alone language.
I have never experienced one tongue being intepreted multiple ways. Most of us probably haven't seen such a thing, or don't know of evidence for this. I suppose someone could wrongly interpret tongues. And there could be someone who gets a prophecy and doesn't differentiate whether it is a tongue or a prophecy, and the silence after a tongue is given is the chance to prophecy.

Examples such as this were mainly the result of studies done – not sure it would occur in a “natural” setting due to the rules of interpretation (assuming they’re being followed). In one example done in France, what was spoken and given to people to interpret was done in a set; one part was legitimate T-speech, the other was the Lord’s Prayer recited in a very broad Scots - various interpretations were offered for both. Multiple interpretations for the same glossic string is the usual result in studies.

Be that as it may, I have known a couple of people who have experienced a situation where someone spoke in tongues and they got the interpretation, but someone else gave the same interpretation before they could say it. My college roommate experienced that. I knew someone who experienced that with giving a prophecy. I've gotten a word of knowledge a couple of times and someone else gave it as a part of a prophecy before I could say it.

That first sentence sounds a bit dubious – “hey, that’s just what I was gonna say” – not sure I can regard that with any degree of legitimacy.

Can you elaborate on your last statement - Can you give an example (even if it’s hypothetical)?

I've also experienced going to one church in one town, someone prophesies something over me, and then someone in another two I go to prophesies that again, or multiple people prophesying or getting words of knowledge about the same thing. The Spirit witnessed to Paul, he said, in every city, of what awaited him in Jerusalem. So this sort of thing happened in the first century, too.

Again, I’m not sure I understand what you mean by prophesy – can you give an example?


Posted by Garee –

When Peter spoke, the Holy Spirit that dwelt in Peter having put His words in Peters mouth (prophecy) every nation under heaven (no one knows how many) heard it to the salvation of their soul. They heard it in their own language, as God gave each one of them his interpretation in their own tongues. Neither tongues nor prophecy is after any man, as a sign a person is with God.

Well, actually we do know – every nation under heaven is an idiomatic expression; like forty days and forty nights – it’s not intended to be taken literally. We are told a bit later in the narrative where the people were from. This is the list given in Acts that most people interpret to refer to languages. It’s a list of places, not languages. If it’s examined, we realize it’s a list of the lands of the Jewish Diaspora (though there are two missing).

 

[notuptome]

I recently made a thread on tongues and instead of rewriting my response that would address this, I'll just share it down below.

Same old logical fallacy with the same predictable outcome.

The Holy Spirit does not operate outside the word of God. 1 Cor 13:8 is not circumvented by the will of man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Same old logical fallacy with the same predictable outcome.

The Holy Spirit does not operate outside the word of God. 1 Cor 13:8 is not circumvented by the will of man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

human logic cannot replace supernatural work of the Holy Spirit. One may not agree with what is in the Bible because it doesn't meet their logic however, to call it fallacy when it is written in the the word of God in 1 Cor chapter 12,13, 14 , is opinionated.

Still waiting for those to show me where the gifts are done away with.