Sabbath

[Grandpa]

I don't think I can change any minds here.

I'm just giving some food for thought. Only the Lord can show you.


2 Corinthians 3:14 [FONT=&quot]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Where do people get the idea of keeping a 7th day sabbath? The old testament.

What is this vail that is over their minds? The thought that their own work and understanding is what fulfills the law.

How do I know any of this? Because I once was lost, but now I'm found...


Love you guys. Have a special place in my heart for judaizers who seem so close to coming to Christ and yet so far... Pride Pride Pride Who can overcome it?[/FONT]

 

[JohnTalmid]

Here's a post I made earlier in this thread regarding the Colossians passage you're referring to that I think you'll find interesting to read.

Regarding Hebrews; the passage you quote actually shows that the Sabbath was established way back in the garden of Eden (that's the "certain place" the writer is referring to), well before there were any Israelites at Mt. Sinai. That's the point he's making. The writer is speaking about returning to the garden/paradise (and the "rest" that it represents) at the end of days which can only happen through belief in what Christ did. That's the rest that remains for believers in God to reach.

Hebrews 4:1 & 11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

And at the beginning of Hebrews 5 the write *immediately* goes into explaining what Christ did and what we have to believe in:


Hebrews 5:1
5 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.


It's the law of "the sacrifices for sin" (i.e. the law of sin & death) that Christ fulfilled so that it no longer had to be performed. The Sabbath day (or its nullification) isn't the subject of Hebrews 4 or 5. The writer is using the reality of what the Sabbath means to show that believers no longer had to "labor" to atone for their sins through sacrificing of animals, but they could now approach God's throne of mercy (through faith in Christ's blood) and ask for mercy and grace; resting from their labors of animal sacrifice (for their many sins) that happened day after day, year after year, with no change in the heart of a person (since it was only an external rehearsal of what Christ would do anyhow).

----

Before Christ, a high priest was selected by man and then even before he could atone on behalf of someone else had to offer a sacrifice for his own sins. No one could approach the throne of God (to receive forgiveness for sin) without blood. Something had to die. Meanwhile Christ was selected by God and didn't have to atone for his own sins (because he had none) who died once for all, taking his blood into heaven.

----

So to continue to sacrifice animals for sin AFTER Christ has risen is showing unbelief that Christ is the High Priest in heaven managing the true version of that very same ministry; it's not "resting" in his work.


This passage doesn't have anything to do with nullifying the Sabbath day or nullifying any other commandments of God to avoid sinning. We still must obey God and sin not...but if we do sin, we have an eternal high priest we believe is in heaven ministering with his blood, so we don't have to kill an animal to approach God for forgiveness anymore. We're then given the gift of Grace to live godly helping us to "sin not" even more.

Very well put. This is all I am saying. For example if Israel does reinstall the Livitical preisthood and daily sacrifice without acknowledgement of Messiah they may be opening a whole new can of worms. Not to say if I slaughter to the best of my knowledge of the instruction of YHWH Elohim. This is truth the Torah is of the spirit and has been renewed in maner if covenants to mankind through Messiah Yeshuas blood. We have all been shown much grace by not already being destroyed. The judgment is upon us now. Today even will you harden your heart, close your mind, and run with all your strength away from the promise of Messiah! Or will you hear, obey, and gain understanding? Fear Elohim but let it become a recreance that leads to doing what is right. We will all witness the judgment of YHWH, how else will Yeshua have enemy's as a footstool. When Israel as Heaven and Earth witness to the encampment being bitten by fiery surpents. They where told to look upon the stake with the copper surpent, remember YHWH Elohim and be healed. Those who even looked upon the surpent but did not remember YHWH died that night. So take our lessons from what has happened because our Elohim is not the God of confusion.

 

[gotime]

I don't think I can change any minds here.

I'm just giving some food for thought. Only the Lord can show you.


2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Where do people get the idea of keeping a 7th day sabbath? The old testament.

What is this vail that is over their minds? The thought that their own work and understanding is what fulfills the law.

How do I know any of this? Because I once was lost, but now I'm found...


Love you guys. Have a special place in my heart for judaizers who seem so close to coming to Christ and yet so far... Pride Pride Pride Who can overcome it?

Just some thoughts on what you have written here. You point out that the Sabbath comes from the Old Testament, In that you are correct. But then the doctrine of Jesus and the disciples came from the Old testament also. Hence "it is written" or "have you not read" or "how readest thou" or "for the scriptures say" and one could go on and on. In fact there is almost nothing in the new that can not be found in the old.

We must understand the veil the Jews had, They thought that by keeping the law they were already holy and thus all they needed from God was deliverance from their physical enemies. They did not see they needed deliverance from sin. This came in through even those who accepted Christ. They still held onto the thought that they were holy by keeping laws including traditions. Just like the early church fathers and many others do this.

 

[gotime]

however I want to try and get to where we disagree on this Sabbath thing. I have tried to understand for many years now where it is we disagree exactly.

For example: we seem to agree on these things,

The law was to show us our sin and make us guilty before God.
The law can not save us but only condemn us as sinners.
The old covenant is passed and the New is for us as for all after Christ.

We all agree that 9 of the 10 are kept by Gods people.

Its just the one that is the issue. The Sabbath. But I think I can see where we diverge now, maybe lol.

When I study the Sabbath issue I do so from the beginning and systematically work through it. Whereas It seems to me others are working backwards from after Jesus. The only problem I have with that is it causes texts to be used in a way that does not harmonise with all of scripture on the subject.

 

[JohnTalmid]

however I want to try and get to where we disagree on this Sabbath thing. I have tried to understand for many years now where it is we disagree exactly.

For example: we seem to agree on these things,

The law was to show us our sin and make us guilty before God.
The law can not save us but only condemn us as sinners.
The old covenant is passed and the New is for us as for all after Christ.

We all agree that 9 of the 10 are kept by Gods people.

Its just the one that is the issue. The Sabbath. But I think I can see where we diverge now, maybe lol.

When I study the Sabbath issue I do so from the beginning and systematically work through it. Whereas It seems to me others are working backwards from after Jesus. The only problem I have with that is it causes texts to be used in a way that does not harmonise with all of scripture on the subject.

I didn't go to seminary school however I'm aware of two types of interpretation taught. Exojesus and Isojesus. The second seems to be the one used most by teaching of Christianity. The problem is they take what they want from scripture rather than take what is in scripture out.

 

[Grandpa]

Just some thoughts on what you have written here. You point out that the Sabbath comes from the Old Testament, In that you are correct. But then the doctrine of Jesus and the disciples came from the Old testament also. Hence "it is written" or "have you not read" or "how readest thou" or "for the scriptures say" and one could go on and on. In fact there is almost nothing in the new that can not be found in the old.

We must understand the veil the Jews had, They thought that by keeping the law they were already holy and thus all they needed from God was deliverance from their physical enemies. They did not see they needed deliverance from sin. This came in through even those who accepted Christ. They still held onto the thought that they were holy by keeping laws including traditions. Just like the early church fathers and many others do this.

Which you try to do with your 7th day.

The ironic thing is that Sabbath is super important, just like you and your church believe.

The sad thing, for you guys, is that this Sabbath is not a day of the week but found in Christ and given as a gift.


The ways of our own understanding is not what makes us Righteous. I think you already know pretty much everything I say and mostly agree. And yet you still go back...


You know that I am not against the Law in any way, except for trying to work at your understanding of what you think it says. In other words, I think the Law is fulfilled in us when we Rest in Christ. It is His Work to grow the fruit of the Spirit in our lives which is our obedience and righteousness, given as His Gift.


If we are doing something extra that keeps us saved or has caused our salvation then we have room to boast. And I really believe that you know in your heart that we have no room to boast.


I don't have any problem with you doing whatever you do on saturdays. My only problem is when people try to convince Christians that they are obligated to keep a saturday sabbath.

 

[Issachar92]

How many people do not keep the Sabbath day holy by accident?
Im not an adventist or anything but coming from the background that I do, I keep sabbath automatically and think nothing of it!

I guarantee most people dont go to work on saturday OR sunday in today's society. Its merely keeping the sabbath by accident.

 

[Grandpa]

however I want to try and get to where we disagree on this Sabbath thing. I have tried to understand for many years now where it is we disagree exactly.

For example: we seem to agree on these things,

The law was to show us our sin and make us guilty before God.
The law can not save us but only condemn us as sinners.
The old covenant is passed and the New is for us as for all after Christ.

We all agree that 9 of the 10 are kept by Gods people.

Its just the one that is the issue. The Sabbath. But I think I can see where we diverge now, maybe lol.

When I study the Sabbath issue I do so from the beginning and systematically work through it. Whereas It seems to me others are working backwards from after Jesus. The only problem I have with that is it causes texts to be used in a way that does not harmonise with all of scripture on the subject.

You have to start with the Lord Jesus Christ and work "backward" from that.

Because the scripture is not open to us before Christ. It is all parable and mystery.

But when we come to Christ we are shown what the parables and mystery is about.


See Hebrews 4 for the best explanation available. Then see Matthew 11:28

 

[Dan_473]

Keep the Sabbath with all your might!

Better yet, fulfill it

this way

GALATIANS 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[beta]

however I want to try and get to where we disagree on this Sabbath thing. I have tried to understand for many years now where it is we disagree exactly.

For example: we seem to agree on these things,

The law was to show us our sin and make us guilty before God.
The law can not save us but only condemn us as sinners.
The old covenant is passed and the New is for us as for all after Christ.

We all agree that 9 of the 10 are kept by Gods people.

Its just the one that is the issue. The Sabbath. But I think I can see where we diverge now, maybe lol.

When I study the Sabbath issue I do so from the beginning and systematically work through it. Whereas It seems to me others are working backwards from after Jesus. The only problem I have with that is it causes texts to be used in a way that does not harmonise with all of scripture on the subject.

You are so right, Christians do have it back to front, they work backward....starting with their own wisdom and understanding instead of simple, humble obedience. Spending 'holy time with God on the Sabbath would teach them their errors...but in 'denying and rejecting it they are missing their 'sure foundation.
The law that applies to us today is not of Moses but of
'Christ who kept all 10 Commandments even as we are taught to keep them intact....because if we break one it's as if we broke all 10. They are GOD's law and separate from those of Moses we are not required to keep. Anything that is necessary to 'love God and neighbour' is included in the 10.
Those who reject instruction from GOD at the 'appointed time/day will miss out on TRUTH and cause mayhem among the people of God.
We need to hear GOD - not Moses - and a 'holy God is to be found in His 'holy time/day ! Let's start at the beginning, not at the end or what has been abolished.

 

[Grace777x70]

The 10 commandments are a part of the law of Moses unless "coveting" got kicked out of the 10 because it got caught "coveting".

If we are going to "keep" all 10 as a carnal commandment to follow - then we need to be doing the 613 laws too - just like James said. Break one - you are guilty of all.

Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

 

[gotime]

I am going to try and address a few things a few people have said above.

first I agree that carnal works are of no value. But one can not call the Sabbath Day/7th day carnal simply because it has no carnal origin. Its origin is divine, the very work of the creator God. All the proof we need for that is here:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This same verse proves that the Sabbath is indeed a "day" not a person. The person Jesus, was the one who made this "day" holy. I am of course emphasising the fact that it is indeed a day.

It is most important to start at the beginning as it was given first by God to humanity through The nation of Israel. This "day" was made before sin was an issue on earth. Thus it is no shadow at all as when it was made there were no need for shadows of any type. It had real concrete meaning when it was made. The "day" is holy because He who made it Holy is Holy and is the only one who can make anything holy.

When we read new testament teachings without an understanding of the origin of these things we make mistakes. For example if the above verse is true, then why would Paul say it was a shadow?

Simply speaking He did not and would not. So then what other options do we have?

If one studies the Old testament from which Paul derives His doctrine and understanding by the leading of the Spirit. We soon discover that there are Sabbath day's that are not the 7th day Sabbath. They were attached to the sacrificial feast which were centred in animals sacrificed for sins. These indeed were shadows of the true sacrifice, even Christ our Passover lamb.

Thus a proper understanding of the Old and the origins will bring harmony in these scriptures. Just a quick example.

 

[gotime]

To better understand the other position. could you clarify biblicaly how the 7th day Sabbath is carnal.

And show why you think it is not an actual day biblicaly. cheers.

 

[Grandpa]

To better understand the other position. could you clarify biblicaly how the 7th day Sabbath is carnal.

And show why you think it is not an actual day biblicaly. cheers.

Is it something you can work at in your own understanding and fulfill by your own strength?

Yes. Then it is a misunderstanding of what the spiritual aspect of that law is.

Matthew 5:21-22
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Abstaining from killing people is a carnal commandment. You can work at it by your own understanding and fulfill it in your own strength.

Not being angry with your brother requires Love. This is a fruit of the Spirit that the Lord grows when we abide in Him. Not our work but the work of Christ in us.

If the law doesn't require fruit of the Spirit in order to fulfill then it is a carnal commandment that can be fulfilled by your own understanding and strength (work).


Here's why the 7th day is about Rest and not a day.

Hebrews 4:4-11

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


The chapter starts off talking about the 7th day and how God Rested. Then it switches to entering into Gods Rest.

We know that the first people didn't enter in because of unbelief. But the people of God enter His Rest by faith.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[gotime]

Is it something you can work at in your own understanding and fulfill by your own strength?

Yes. Then it is a misunderstanding of what the spiritual aspect of that law is.

Matthew 5:21-22
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Abstaining from killing people is a carnal commandment. You can work at it by your own understanding and fulfill it in your own strength.

Not being angry with your brother requires Love. This is a fruit of the Spirit that the Lord grows when we abide in Him. Not our work but the work of Christ in us.

If the law doesn't require fruit of the Spirit in order to fulfill then it is a carnal commandment that can be fulfilled by your own understanding and strength (work).


Here's why the 7th day is about Rest and not a day.

Hebrews 4:4-11

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


The chapter starts off talking about the 7th day and how God Rested. Then it switches to entering into Gods Rest.

We know that the first people didn't enter in because of unbelief. But the people of God enter His Rest by faith.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Thanx for the reply. I will only deal with one aspect to keep it simple.

You said "Is it something you can work at in your own understanding and fulfill by your own strength?"

Is this so or is it a private interpretation of carnal commandment? What evidence do you have from the bible that shows this interpretation to be biblical?

You then quote Matthew 5 about murder, Is it a carnal commandment to not physically kill? Sure one can do this with their own understanding but is it not true that the person who has the love of God will not physically kill also?

To be angry with your brother is part of the law also. We learn that in Genesis chapter 4 where Cain's anger led to killing physically. This is not new but a proper reading of the law. Love goes further than simply not killing someone physically granted as it always has, but that does not negate the fact that we should not kill physically either. This commandment remains to this day as it is written:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So that shows that what you call a carnal commandment is still binding on the Christian today even though it goes deeper than that. However if one interprets the commandments through the proper way as seen by Paul. Namely Love one would come to those conclusions also.

So how then do you negate the Sabbath based on these arguments. This is a genuine question by the way. It does not seem to me that you have thought this through. But maybe there is more so please enlighten me to how it is that this system works.

 

[gotime]

Maybe I should make myself more clear just in case, so you can see where I am coming from regarding your post.

You said the Sabbath can be worked at by understanding and own strength. You also said that this is the case with thou shalt not kill.

So both the Sabbath and thou shalt not kill according to your post are carnal commandments according to you interpretation of carnal commandment which I am not convinced is biblical but private.

you conclude from this that the Sabbath day should not be kept but the principles that we can gain from it should.

Do you then also conclude that we should not get angry with people but we may kill them?

I doubt it, but that just demonstrates to me that your argument internally destructs itself.

If love both fulfils the principles and the commandment then it stands to reason that one who is led by the Spirit would not only keep the principles of the Sabbath but also the Sabbath itself. It would seem that the law then has both a physical and spiritual application and both are natural outcome of being saved.

 

[beta]

As I see it the 'Sabbath DAY-a period of weekly time - was given to man as a 'Root-cause, a Reality upon which can be built/in which is contained the very presence of God from whom ALL things grow....
for the ROOT/SEED planted in the ground grows the plant....not the other way round.
Even to START with Jesus (as some think we should) takes us back to the ROOT-System God established for the same (HE) was in the beginning with God Joh 1...that would be BEFORE the foundation of the world and any shadows at all. In any case, you can not have a shadow unless a 'Reality causes it !
And also I am NOT talking of any ''Hebrew Root religion as being the ROOT System of God''...please nobody bring that into the discussion.
Just saying...a plant without roots won't last into eternity...we must see GOD's hand in His Creation from beginning to end.
For MAN the sabbath DAY is a 'real repetitive period of time which we can share with God and be renewed from the ravages of this fallen world.

 

[Grandpa]

Thanx for the reply. I will only deal with one aspect to keep it simple.

You said "Is it something you can work at in your own understanding and fulfill by your own strength?"

Is this so or is it a private interpretation of carnal commandment? What evidence do you have from the bible that shows this interpretation to be biblical?

You then quote Matthew 5 about murder, Is it a carnal commandment to not physically kill? Sure one can do this with their own understanding but is it not true that the person who has the love of God will not physically kill also?

To be angry with your brother is part of the law also. We learn that in Genesis chapter 4 where Cain's anger led to killing physically. This is not new but a proper reading of the law. Love goes further than simply not killing someone physically granted as it always has, but that does not negate the fact that we should not kill physically either. This commandment remains to this day as it is written:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So that shows that what you call a carnal commandment is still binding on the Christian today even though it goes deeper than that. However if one interprets the commandments through the proper way as seen by Paul. Namely Love one would come to those conclusions also.

So how then do you negate the Sabbath based on these arguments. This is a genuine question by the way. It does not seem to me that you have thought this through. But maybe there is more so please enlighten me to how it is that this system works.

You are falling prey to your circular reasoning because you want to be bound by the carnal commandment.

The carnal commandment is what seems like it can be fulfilled by the work of people. (There is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof is death). The Lord shows in Matthew 5 that the commandments previously given are much more than what the people thought. The Lord was beginning to show that the Law is spiritual.

The first fruit of the Spirit listed in Galatians 5 is Love. This is the fulfillment of all the law. It is also a gift. If we are given the gift then we don't nullify the law, we uphold it. We don't receive the gift by working at our understanding of what the law says. We receive the gift by coming to Christ.

If perfection were by the levitical priesthood what need was there that another come after the order of Melchizidek?

You can't be under the levitical priesthood and the Melchizidek Priesthood at the same time. You only get one High Priest...


There's more but I'll have to come back to it later...

 

[gotime]

You are falling prey to your circular reasoning because you want to be bound by the carnal commandment.

The carnal commandment is what seems like it can be fulfilled by the work of people. (There is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof is death). The Lord shows in Matthew 5 that the commandments previously given are much more than what the people thought. The Lord was beginning to show that the Law is spiritual.

The first fruit of the Spirit listed in Galatians 5 is Love. This is the fulfillment of all the law. It is also a gift. If we are given the gift then we don't nullify the law, we uphold it. We don't receive the gift by working at our understanding of what the law says. We receive the gift by coming to Christ.

If perfection were by the levitical priesthood what need was there that another come after the order of Melchizidek?

You can't be under the levitical priesthood and the Melchizidek Priesthood at the same time. You only get one High Priest...


There's more but I'll have to come back to it later...

Its not circular at all, I am calling you to be internally consistent because at present you are not. (Not having a go at you, just pointing out the problem with your post).

There was no circular reasoning at all if so demonstrate that it was so.

I simply called you to keep to your own rules. You suggest the 7th day Sabbath should not be kept because it is a carnal commandment. Yet you also said that thou shalt not kill is a carnal commandment. So for you to be internally consistent in what you have said to me you would also no longer obey the law thou shalt not kill in a physical sense Or else by your own reasoning you would be keeping a carnal commandment and thus working for your salvation.

Its straight logic that demonstrates the weakness in your argument for me at least at this point.

I wont address the rest of what you wrote as we have not dealt with this yet. By the way I would like to see from the bible where you get your view of a carnal commandment as stated above.

Blessings brother and thanx for your time.

 

[JohnTalmid]

The Sabbath command can be kept carnally? NO WAY! The Sabbath is not a day that can be kept carnally for sure. If you tried to carnally you would always come up short. I keep the Sabbath as well as I can sometimes better and sometimes​ worse. For example it is not right to buy or sell on Sabbath but on occasion I must buy gas, food, or make a fire in Winter. If I allow grace to abound my error I would be not continuing in the Love of God and His only begotten son. If when I do get something wrong I do it on purpose there was a day this was atoned for already and it was not me walking but Messiah walking perfect for me. You who think it is right that Messiah Yeshua made a way for you to walk in? He didn't change the Law and do you also think Yeshua changed God's judgments? NO he did not. Sabbath is still in effect for those in Messiah today and will be in effect for ever. The question posed today is will you agree with God humble yourself and obey? If not there will be a distinction made between the wicked and the rightous. I know what side I'm on because the word testifies to the good path that I practice on. Because you say I am trying to gain my salvation through works is wrong. I am saved and that is why I guard the commands of God, not the other way around. Who do you think knows their sin better, someone who guards the command or someone who doesn't even know of it? Now that I know sin I can walk the other way twords righteousness in Messiah Yeshua for the love of Elohim.