Not By Works

[Grace777x70]

I have posted this many times before and I will do it again for any new people viewing the thread and leave it in the hands of the Holy Spirit for it is He that reveals the things of God and of Christ to us.

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy then we are now.

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

This involves the renewing of the mind to walk out what already is in the new creation that is one spirit with Christ now. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. We participate in this with Him. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person....the real you in your inner man.....the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive Passive means that something is being done to you ...you are not doing it to yourself...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.


Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

We are holy because He is holy! Christ makes us holy and we participate in this outward behavior with the Lord. "For it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.". Phil. 2:13

 

[BillG]

The work is finished when you recieve your salvation certificate written in the the book of like when your final chapter is finished..

To me life means life.. and this is why its called the book of life... because are lifetime events are written in there..

So when your final chapter is complete you recieve your approval and not until its over..

when the trumpets will blow and the lady will sing. And old aquaintances will be renewed...[video=youtube;DJwfsYxDgJ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJwfsYxDgJ4[/video]

When do you think the book of life was/is written?

 

[Ariel82]

So it still boils down....do you accept the Catholic definition of justification or the Protestant definition?

From your article..

Justification and Sanctification: The Theological and Practical relationship Between the Two Doctrines

I think this may be why there is so much misunderstanding happening....lots of folks have the Catholic understanding of justification...

Alister McGrath explains this saying:
It will therefore be obvious that the Roman Catholic understands by "justification" what the Protestant understands by "justification" and "sanctification" linked together. The same word is used by both—but it has a different meaning in each case. This has led to enormous confusion. Consider the following two statements.

A.We are justified by faith alone.

B. We are justified by faith and works.

… For the Protestant, statement A means that the Christian life is begun through faith, and faith alone…. For the Roman Catholic, however…statement A means that the Christian life as a whole is begun and continued by faith alone, which seems to exclude any reference to regeneration or obedience. For the Roman Catholic, statement B means that the Christian life is begun in faith, but is continued and developed through obedience and good works…. But the Protestant—who understands "justification" to refer only to the beginning of the Christian life—would regard this as a totally unacceptable doctrine of justification by works. In fact, there is general agreement between Protestant and Roman Catholic that the Christian life is begun through faith and continued and developed through obedience and good works

 

[FranC]

I don't think we can limit sanctification merely to obeying the commands of Jesus.

If we have been sanctified that means we have been made Holy and set apart.

We have not been set apart to just purely obey the commands of Jesus.

To me it goes way beyond that, it encompasses our whole being our whole selves.

I for myself add another level in that I ask God to conform me to the image of Christ to be like Christ.

Jesus summed up the 10 commandments in the two greatest commandments.


One of the major criticism of the Pharisees was how they used the law to justify themselves before God at the expense of others.

They followed the letter of the law but not the spirit.

So to me as I said for me it's to be conformed to the image of Christ, to be holy just like he is.
I want to be just like Jesus when it comes to way of how Jesus walked when on earth.
He was filled with compassion and love for the needy, the hurting, the neglected, the marginalised.

He healed on the sabbath much to the disgust of the law keepers.
He dined with sinners, he cried for and over people.

He did this because he loved people so so much, the love of the Father was in him.

Thats what I want to be like, that's what I aspire for in me life. To love people as Jesus loved people, to have that pure unadulterated love flow through for others.

So to that is a layer of sanctification I pray for, as that works I will grow more in being conformed into his image and as a natural response obeying what Jesus has asked me to do and be.

Agree. As we usually do.

Just two comments.

You say we have been sanctified. I say that we are BEING sanctified. We have not been sanctified in this life and probably won't be. In the next life we will be glorified so everything we're saying here becomes irrelevant.

You bring up a very interesting concept.

Jesus made it MORE difficult to to obey the decalogue. IF YOU BUT LOOK UPON A WOMAN WITH LUST YOU HAVE COMMITTED ADULTERY. So what you're saying is that you've brougtht following the SPIRIT OF THE LAW to a Whole new level.

This is great!

I uderstand this to mean that we must be changed INTERNALLY and not just by our outward actions.
So I agree with you 100% if this is what you mean.

If you follow the LAW, you will be judged by the LAW. And the Law is a harsh judge...

 

[JIMBO43]

Did anyone see donal trump in the middle east lol... He said drive them out a few times and i laughed whena muslim chiek looked dumfounded lol

Anyways a parently trump as made it to the waling wall and put his hand on it

Aparently trump didnt wail but shouted come on you blues

 

[JIMBO43]

When do you think the book of life was/is written?

its not finished.

 

[FranC]

No I mean like actually having a conversation and prayerful way.

God teaches His kids His wisdom in many different ways and it's not "magically".

The first and primary way is through the Bible and His Holy Spirit.

Next is through the Church and Holy Spirit filled members who have been given the spiritual gift of teaching....which you don't have, no matter how many Catholic adult classes you have taught.

Then also he teaches through circumstances of life and nature. Also through dreams and visions. However God primarily teaches through the Bible, prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He reinforces the lessons through people,dreams and circumstances of life.

You're not even answering my question.
The reason is because you just CANNOT admit that good works are necessary for sanctification.

It's OK. God loves you anyway.

 

[Ariel82]

They're not really my cup of tea. Sometimes they seem alright and sometimes their stuff is off the wall unbiblical, Jimbo. Hope you pray and read your Bible to be able to discern the good stuff from the fishy stuff they teach.

 

[Ariel82]

You're not even answering my question.
The reason is because you just CANNOT admit that good works are necessary for sanctification.

It's OK. God loves you anyway.

Ummm pretty sure if you go back in my responses..I said good works are needed for personal sanctification but not salvation.

If you could figure out what these verses meant:

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

****
You wouldn't call God's grace cheap.

 

[Stephen63]

His post was in response to "easy believism" which is another straw man that folks aren't teaching on this thread but you and others like to talk about.

Actually, I went back to the post & he was teaching it.

That's a little trick I see on the BDF all the time..... they will make a statement according to their beliefs, & when you call them out on it they will accuse you of starting it, saying we're not supposed to be talking about that.

Deflection & manipulation, pure & simple.

 

[Ariel82]

Welcome to the conversation Stephen.

Do you believe in works salvation?

Can you define justification and sanctification?

Are works needed to keep your salvation?

 

[FranC]

Did anyone see donal trump in the middle east lol... He said drive them out a few times and i laughed whena muslim chiek looked dumfounded lol

Anyways a parently trump as made it to the waling wall and put his hand on it

Aparently trump didnt wail but shouted come on you blues

You're funny.

Did you hear Trump's idea to get the Jihadist Muslims to quit doing their terroristic work?

He wants them to understand that their going to hell and not to that heaven with all the virgin maidens.

I really, truthfully, think it's a good idea! It's a way of witnessing.

If love doesn't work, maybe fear of hell will. Really.

Let's see if this works. It won't happen overnight.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

......................

 

[JIMBO43]

They're not really my cup of tea. Sometimes they seem alright and sometimes their stuff is off the wall unbiblical, Jimbo. Hope you pray and read your Bible to be able to discern the good stuff from the fishy stuff they teach.

The only thing i ever saw joel preach upon WHICH IS OUT THERE... which is only an imagination that could be true.

iS SPIRITUAL D.N.A but i believe in it anyway but it wa snice to see someone else who did.. and what ever people say he gets the crowds where many can gather. And we all know what can happen at such events. pentacost for one.

Anyway you should also reconise that he could be called.

mAYBE HES DOING THE WORKS Of THE FATHER,,,,,,,,, AND MAYBE JUST MAYBE IF HE DOESNT DO THEM HE MIGHT ALSO BE DENYING...and we wouldnt want that would we. ??

 

[JIMBO43]

[video=youtube;CQ_v8Bcm_IE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ_v8Bcm_IE[/video]

 

[FranC]

Ummm pretty sure if you go back in my responses..I said good works are needed for personal sanctification but not salvation.

If you could figure out what these verses meant:

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

****
You wouldn't call God's grace cheap.

1. Here's the original post. WHERE do you speak to sanctification??

Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post

No I mean like actually having a conversation and prayerful way.

God teaches His kids His wisdom in many different ways and it's not "magically".

The first and primary way is through the Bible and His Holy Spirit.

Next is through the Church and Holy Spirit filled members who have been given the spiritual gift of teaching....which you don't have, no matter how many Catholic adult classes you have taught.

Then also he teaches through circumstances of life and nature. Also through dreams and visions. However God primarily teaches through the Bible, prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He reinforces the lessons through people,dreams and circumstances of life.


2. 1 Corinthians 3:11-14

First of all, your doctrine cannot be tied up in a few verses.
Second, I answered this before and to YOU personally since you were asking for my view of it.
This proves, without doubt, that you DO NOT read these posts.

3. Once again, you're insulting someone. This is truly strange since the Holy Spirit is in you. Is He not convicting you of this sin?? (regarding my inability to teach --- you sure do hit low when all the while I'm trying to be nice to you).

 

[JIMBO43]

[video=youtube;6OZqC9RnFPI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OZqC9RnFPI[/video] trump has been chosen lol

 

[Ariel82]

When we get into politics...that's my cue to exit stage left.

 

[Ariel82]

if you go back in my responses..

Notice the use of the plural form of the noun responses.,,,

Thought you were reading along?

 

[Grace777x70]

......... havent seen works salvation here

but ive seen sin condemnation .............

A Works-based/works-righteousness salvation belief system is anything that we think we have to do in order to be acceptable to God, create or maintain righteousness, other then believing in what Christ has already done by grace through faith alone.

In this believing of Christ's work - this releases His life to walk out what we are already in our new creation that is in Christ. The inner man of the heart.

Right believing in Christ produces right thinking ( a transformed mind ) which produces right living that brings His life and goodness so that others can know the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

It is the way of the kingdom. Christ is the Alpha and the Omega in all things. He is our life, our righteousness, our wisdom, our sanctification, our redemption. It is Him!

In Him was the life and that life is the light of men.