Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Yes. He WILL finish the good work He began.
IF we stay in Him long enough for Him to finish the good work.

BTW, WHEN does this good work get finished?
When we recive our new inccorutible bodies.All died living in the living faith of God having not receiving the end of His work of faith.as a labor of His love.

Purple in (parenthesis) my private interpretation or opinion

Heb 11:7 By faith (of Chrsit) Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.(Christ’s the faith of God)

Interestingly the Spriit of Christ begins with the more well known saints to the lesser known, to those who names are not even mentioned in the scriptures. I think it is in respect to the principble, the last will be first and the first last. Even hiding the ones the worlds is said to be not worthy of. All having a good report of themselves through the faith that comes from hearing God not seen, but like all Christians in a living hope of receiving the new incorruptible bodies. Not one received the promise of Him who began the good work of salvation. He will finish it.Finsishing is better than begining, just as his work of patence is better than His pride.

Women (no particular name)received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they (no particular name) might obtain a better resurrection:And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:They(no particular name) were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,(the faith that comes from hearing God not seen) received not the promise:God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb 11:35
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
Define your understanding of "denying God"?

I don't believe any believer in Christ that is sealed with the Holy Spirit can lose salvation. Salvation is based on Christ alone. He is the Savior.

I also believe people can get their minds messed up. True biblical belief is of the heart and not in the mind as Romans 10:9-10 clearly shows.

You tell someone that God killed their baby so that He could "teach" them something or something equally sick and that person will have a warped mind and be against that and thus in his mind - be mad and angry at God.
You may be right about being sealed for eternity.. this i agree upon.. however you could be wrong about being eternaly saved..

Meaning to be eternaly saved also means you can become eternaly unsaved...

The questions around this are...

1 people are saved from the most apauling life styles..

2 people carry on to live them apauling life syles yet dont get saved..

People are drawn to Jesus..

People are not..


Conlusion recieving your salvation is not a done deal untill its over...

Anyone who says other wise is taking the law into there own hands.. law takers i call them..
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
we know all about Works not being the main reason for recieving salvation at the end..

We know being saved is an umerited favor...... but we know that salvation is awarded for your good deeds and bad deeds... which becomes merited for salvation unmerited for being saved..
Surely salvation is unmerited or not. You say it's unmerited (freely given) but then say it's merited/awarded based on deeds.

Am I missing the point you are making? I think i am
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
Surely salvation is unmerited or not. You say it's unmerited (freely given) but then say it's merited/awarded based on deeds.

Am I missing the point you are making? I think i am
I said being saved is unmerited and recieving salvation is merited..

Meaning being saved and recieving salvation is two diffrent things.... but one can be saved until that day..
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
What is the difference between "being saved" and "receiving salvation", Jimbo?

Never heard anyone say they are different events.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
I said being saved is unmerited and recieving salvation is merited..

Meaning being saved and recieving salvation is two diffrent things.... but one can be saved until that day..
Therfore saved and salvation are totally different?
That being the case it's not unmerited?
Therfore what constitutes salvation that is different from being saved?

Not being obtuse but I am scratching my head
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
Therfore saved and salvation are totally different?
That being the case it's not unmerited?
Therfore what constitutes salvation that is different from being saved?

Not being obtuse but I am scratching my head
ha well its so simple logic that when the bible says those born of the first fruits (saved wait patiently for there salavtion... it clear that salvation is the birth in the new Body.. when it will be glorified meaning the body is important and the heart must become pure befor santification justification...
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
ha well its so simple logic that when the bible says those born of the fir fruits (saved wait patiently for there salavtion... it clear that salvation is the birth in the new Body.. when it will be glorified meaning the body is important and the heart must become pure befor santification justification...
Does not the heart become pure as a result off justification that leads to sanctification?
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
The body is fragile some may say so is our spirit until its strengthend :)
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
What is the difference between "being saved" and "receiving salvation", Jimbo?

Never heard anyone say they are different events.
The main diffrent is those who wait on the lord will renew there strenght and sor into the sky like eagles and spread there wings...

Those who dont may not.. this is reality
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
the reality for me is not confusing.. Its not at all confusing to me that a pure heart is blessed by God and will inherit the kingdom...

A pure heart is a works that must come from the believer... Just like confessing from the heart to a brother... is also a works from a pure repenting heart...

Conviction is of the holy spirit..

Conviction is the lauguage that the spirit speaks that only the believers will feel convicted of in end times.....
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
my analogy on works..

Works of God.

He created us in his image,,, He designed the earth.. (you could call this work of art..)

Ok we cretae new buildings and new earths by spreading love and being ministers teachers brothers ,,,,sisters..

Brother and sisters,, reminds me of a song pump the volume..

Pumping so works works works..

He sent us son to work with us and for us and to be a sheperd from dark forces..

We must not forget that people can become mentaly depressed from constant denomic attack.

We also know that some can become unwell and depressed physical in the heart from flamortary disease imflamation etc. scientist have dicovered prescribing imflamortaries has reduced a lot of depression patients..

So does the Mentaly un well body lead to depresion in spirit ?..

Ive got a funny fealing it does so i favor becoming one with the body..

And in a spiritual sence becoming one with the body (the church) the vine.

This all work works works works to become pure in heart and to not have an unrepenting heart... which i feal strongly to not have an unrepenting heart is to be pure of heart..God bless
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
You may be right about being sealed for eternity.. this i agree upon.. however you could be wrong about being eternaly saved..

Meaning to be eternaly saved also means you can become eternaly unsaved...

The questions around this are...

1 people are saved from the most apauling life styles..

2 people carry on to live them apauling life syles yet dont get saved..

People are drawn to Jesus..

People are not..


Conlusion recieving your salvation is not a done deal untill its over...

Anyone who says other wise is taking the law into there own hands.. law takers i call them..
How about what Jesus said?
"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."
You see, if you belong to Jesus, you will come to him, not walk away from him.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
[video=youtube;ebzoET4XIj8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebzoET4XIj8[/video]
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
How about what Jesus said?
"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."
You see, if you belong to Jesus, you will come to him, not walk away from him.
good the question is then have you recieved him and do you understand his works will always be needed as that is what he created you for... to do good
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John8:11

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Job 1

1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.


Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

John 8:34

“Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.”
Luke 16:13 - No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


James 1:25 - But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


Hebrews 10:26

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

welp

1 John 2:4
“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”



this is just off the top of my head

but you saying 1st john

with no context whatsoever

isnt really saying much

im going to go over it at work given all have SINNED were going to always need an advocate so if youre speakin of that singular verse to prove youre point you arent sayin much...



im gonna pray and ask God ill be back
None of these teach sinless perfectionism....I suggest word studies and context because your going to seed on something not implied...and 1st John in context alone proves there is no such thing as sinless perfectionism
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You have asked where in Scripture is there room for sin in a righteous man.

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my Brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

So WHO are our brothers?


46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”

What is the Will of the Father?

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.39 This is the Will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So how can you say a Brother (righteous man in Christ) doesn't sin? Why is Peter asking about forgiving a sinning BROTHER, and Jesus saying CONTINUE TO FORGIVE HIM ALWAYS, if a Brother never sins?
Amazing how one can understand grace and salvation, but then buy into the sinless perfectionist fallacy.......shakes head
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Salvation is based on Christ alone. He is the Savior.
This phrase fails on a lot of levels.
Salvation is of an individual, so passing from death to life relies on something changing in the
sinner to make this possible.

However you define this change or its source, if it is not present the person is not saved.
Now Christ never changes, so the change must occur in the sinner.

If you claim the sinner is a passive participant then Christ chooses people and changes them
without free will.

The problem is if you desire judgement on the choice, ie you can choose salvation or not,
then by definition it is Jesus + a choice, which is owned by the sinner or else judgement
could not be exercised on them, ie damnation to hell.

Now I hold to one simple principle, our rebellion against God means we are lost. Unless
He chooses the elect and quickens them, they will be lost. Once chosen there is a choice
of life or death, because they are now alive. And this life comes because of salvation.
Now justice is served because all choose to rebel, and deserve judgement because of sin.
Now I have a consistent model of salvation, though the grace crowd do not. They say
judgement is not for sin, because Jesus has removed all judgement for sin and it is only on
good works, done in faith or done in unbelief, and people are judged for unbelief. But how
can you be judged if you are lost in sin and rebellion, because only when you are alive in Christ
do you know life and are alive.

So the grace theology cannot give the unbelievers life, because that takes belief, and the believers
could never come to faith because it takes life to be able to choose it. So you could say Christ saves
everyone, and all fall away, except the elect, but you would have to believe you can lose your
salvation.

Some have implied this by claiming all are written in the Lambs book of life and are removed.
I prefer, I know Christ and I love Him, I cannot judge anothers walk, but I trust my Lord.

But how I can become an unbeliever and doomed to hell by my position is beyond me, because
Christ has not revealed this, and I can only love Him as the Son of the Living God except by the
Holy Spirit, so I must be alive in Christ, and this theology therefore must be wrong.
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Nobody is claiming that Jesus saves us and after that, we should do absolutely nothing in return (out of love and gratitude) for Him. Love and gratitude is my motivation for serving Jesus Christ and not pride and expectation that He will save me based on the merits of my works. Huge difference. We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
No matter how much she flip flops....it is obvious she pushes works for salvation....the bible is clear...works do save or keep saved, but are the result of salvation...I FOR ONE AM TIRED OF THOSE WHO LIE AND IMPLY that we teach that one does not bear fruit......serious