Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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"Cheap grace is when you attempt to earn the good graces of God through your religious acts instead of freely receiving a free gift from Jesus Christ"
The concept of Cheap grace is belief without action or morality otherwise known as
easy believism.
Religious acts - things motivated from self-righteousness
Earning salvation - earn the good graces
accepting salvation without any conditions - freely receiving the free gift
The trouble with language is each person develops there own key language meaning
which others might no see, but has a particular meaning given their teaching background.
Now I am flipping this interpretation round to mean actually we through the cross are
empowered to walk in righteousness.
Now after pages of interaction, it is true you could read in whatever you like to this
phrase, but this is the intention. This also illustrates what people means, and what
people read in. So I have to laugh at myself, because I can fall and get too involved,
which is the joke.
It is true we do not earn the cross, and any actions do not take away from the cross
and its statement of love to us.
But earning salvation through behaviour is self justification, and is not a statement of grace,
so cannot be called cheap grace, it could be called ignoring grace.
What I did not like is putting this convoluted theological statement that did not actually work
in front of the cross. But as I said, if people do not have any problems doing this, which clearly
they do not, we are very different people of faith.
The concept of Cheap grace is belief without action or morality otherwise known as
easy believism.
Religious acts - things motivated from self-righteousness
Earning salvation - earn the good graces
accepting salvation without any conditions - freely receiving the free gift
The trouble with language is each person develops there own key language meaning
which others might no see, but has a particular meaning given their teaching background.
Now I am flipping this interpretation round to mean actually we through the cross are
empowered to walk in righteousness.
Now after pages of interaction, it is true you could read in whatever you like to this
phrase, but this is the intention. This also illustrates what people means, and what
people read in. So I have to laugh at myself, because I can fall and get too involved,
which is the joke.
It is true we do not earn the cross, and any actions do not take away from the cross
and its statement of love to us.
But earning salvation through behaviour is self justification, and is not a statement of grace,
so cannot be called cheap grace, it could be called ignoring grace.
What I did not like is putting this convoluted theological statement that did not actually work
in front of the cross. But as I said, if people do not have any problems doing this, which clearly
they do not, we are very different people of faith.
OT grace:
~H2603
[FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)]חָנַן
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]chânan
khaw-nan'
A primitive root (compare H2583); properly to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior; to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (that is, move to favor by petition): - beseech, X fair, (be, find, shew) favour (-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious (-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, X very.
Total KJV occurrences: 77
NT grace:
G5485
χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
Total KJV occurrences: 156
The unmerited gift of Holy Spirit in our life.
So whose work is it?
~H2603
[FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)]חָנַן
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]chânan
khaw-nan'
A primitive root (compare H2583); properly to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior; to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (that is, move to favor by petition): - beseech, X fair, (be, find, shew) favour (-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious (-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, X very.
Total KJV occurrences: 77
NT grace:
G5485
χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
Total KJV occurrences: 156
The unmerited gift of Holy Spirit in our life.
So whose work is it?
Hebrew thought:
~trongs #2603: AHLB#: 1175-B (V)
1175) ( HhN)ac: Camp co: Camp ab: Beauty: The pictograph is a picture of a wall. The is a picture of a seed meaning "to continue". Combined these mean "wall continues". A nomads camp consisted of many family tents, which make up the clan camp. The camp can have as many as fifty tents or more in it. The tents are placed in a circular configuration, forming one continuous wall surrounding the camp. (eng: home - an exchange for the m and n)
A) ( HhN)ac: ? co: Camp ab: Beauty: Within this wall is the family clan, a place of freedom, compassion and beauty. An encampment of tents. The tent is supported by the poles.
Nm) ( HhN) - Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another. [freq. 69] |kjv: grace, favour, gracious, pleasant, precious| {str: 2580}
Nf3) ( Hh-NWT) - Room: As surrounded by walls. [freq. 1] |kjv: cabin| {str: 2588}
Nf4) ( Hh-NYT) - Sp |kjv: spear, javelin| {str: 2595}
if1) ( THh-NH) - I. Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another. II. Supplication: [freq. 25] |kjv: supplication, favour, grace| {str: 8467}
if1) ( THh-NH) - Camp: [freq. 1] |kjv: camp| {str: 8466}
pm) ( Hh-NM) - Freely: To work or do an action without wages or without cause. [Unknown connection to root;] [freq. 32] |kjv: without cause, for nought, causeless, in vain, free, without cost, freely, innocent, cost me nothing, for nothing, without wages| {str: 2600}
B) ( HhNN)ac: ? co: ? ab: Compassion: Within this wall is the family clan, a place of freedom, compassion and beauty. An encampment of tents.
V) ( Hh-NN) - Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another. [freq. 82] (vf: Paal, Niphal, Hitpael, Hophal, Piel) |kjv: mercy, gracious, merciful, supplication, favour, besought, pity| {str: 2589, 2603, 2604}
bf) ( Hh-NYN) - Compassion: [freq. 1] |kjv: favour| {str: 2594}
dm) ( Hh-NWN) - Compassion: [freq. 13] |kjv: gracious| {str: 2587}
idm) ( THh-NWN) - Supplication: [freq. 18] |kjv: supplications, intreaties| {str: 8469}
H) ( HhNH)ac: ? co: Camp ab: ?: The first step to setting up the tent is to arrange the poles. The tent poles were sharpened at one end (and could be used as a weapon) and were driven into the ground. An encampment of tents.
V) ( Hh-NH) - Camp: To stop for the night and pitch the tents. [freq. 143] (vf: Paal) |kjv: pitch, encamp, camp, abide, dwelt, lie, rest| {str: 2583}
am) ( MHh-NH) - Camp: The inhabitants of a camp. [freq. 216] |kjv: camp, host, company, tent, army, band, battle, drove| {str: 4264}
M) ( HhYN)ac: ? co: ? ab: Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another.
Nm) ( HhYN) - Beauty: [freq. 1] |kjv: comely| {str: 2433}
~trongs #2603: AHLB#: 1175-B (V)
1175) ( HhN)ac: Camp co: Camp ab: Beauty: The pictograph is a picture of a wall. The is a picture of a seed meaning "to continue". Combined these mean "wall continues". A nomads camp consisted of many family tents, which make up the clan camp. The camp can have as many as fifty tents or more in it. The tents are placed in a circular configuration, forming one continuous wall surrounding the camp. (eng: home - an exchange for the m and n)
A) ( HhN)ac: ? co: Camp ab: Beauty: Within this wall is the family clan, a place of freedom, compassion and beauty. An encampment of tents. The tent is supported by the poles.
Nm) ( HhN) - Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another. [freq. 69] |kjv: grace, favour, gracious, pleasant, precious| {str: 2580}
Nf3) ( Hh-NWT) - Room: As surrounded by walls. [freq. 1] |kjv: cabin| {str: 2588}
Nf4) ( Hh-NYT) - Sp |kjv: spear, javelin| {str: 2595}
if1) ( THh-NH) - I. Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another. II. Supplication: [freq. 25] |kjv: supplication, favour, grace| {str: 8467}
if1) ( THh-NH) - Camp: [freq. 1] |kjv: camp| {str: 8466}
pm) ( Hh-NM) - Freely: To work or do an action without wages or without cause. [Unknown connection to root;] [freq. 32] |kjv: without cause, for nought, causeless, in vain, free, without cost, freely, innocent, cost me nothing, for nothing, without wages| {str: 2600}
B) ( HhNN)ac: ? co: ? ab: Compassion: Within this wall is the family clan, a place of freedom, compassion and beauty. An encampment of tents.
V) ( Hh-NN) - Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another. [freq. 82] (vf: Paal, Niphal, Hitpael, Hophal, Piel) |kjv: mercy, gracious, merciful, supplication, favour, besought, pity| {str: 2589, 2603, 2604}
bf) ( Hh-NYN) - Compassion: [freq. 1] |kjv: favour| {str: 2594}
dm) ( Hh-NWN) - Compassion: [freq. 13] |kjv: gracious| {str: 2587}
idm) ( THh-NWN) - Supplication: [freq. 18] |kjv: supplications, intreaties| {str: 8469}
H) ( HhNH)ac: ? co: Camp ab: ?: The first step to setting up the tent is to arrange the poles. The tent poles were sharpened at one end (and could be used as a weapon) and were driven into the ground. An encampment of tents.
V) ( Hh-NH) - Camp: To stop for the night and pitch the tents. [freq. 143] (vf: Paal) |kjv: pitch, encamp, camp, abide, dwelt, lie, rest| {str: 2583}
am) ( MHh-NH) - Camp: The inhabitants of a camp. [freq. 216] |kjv: camp, host, company, tent, army, band, battle, drove| {str: 4264}
M) ( HhYN)ac: ? co: ? ab: Beauty: As the beauty of the camp. To give or show beauty, grace or mercy to another.
Nm) ( HhYN) - Beauty: [freq. 1] |kjv: comely| {str: 2433}
Hi NNM
I'm halfway through that youtube video.
The guy is good. I like him.
He explains everything well, except it really is difficult to get a handle on what it means that the Law was not aboished, we are not under the Law, and yet we still have to obey it.
I wonder if you know that there were three types of Law in the O.T.:
Civil Law
Ceremonial Law
Moral Law
Only the Moral Law remains. It's absolutely imperative that it does because God is moral, just like God is love. He IS. Not like it's a part of him... HE IS IT.
I like how he explained WHY we have the Law.
I hope he gets into the Covenants in some talk of his. This really helps people to understand the Law and the difference between the Old or Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant. I like that he explained that the Mosaic Covenant did not abolish the Abrahamic Covenant but built upon it. Every covenant builds upon the previouis one.
Keep listening. I think it's great.
I'm halfway through that youtube video.
The guy is good. I like him.
He explains everything well, except it really is difficult to get a handle on what it means that the Law was not aboished, we are not under the Law, and yet we still have to obey it.
I wonder if you know that there were three types of Law in the O.T.:
Civil Law
Ceremonial Law
Moral Law
Only the Moral Law remains. It's absolutely imperative that it does because God is moral, just like God is love. He IS. Not like it's a part of him... HE IS IT.
I like how he explained WHY we have the Law.
I hope he gets into the Covenants in some talk of his. This really helps people to understand the Law and the difference between the Old or Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant. I like that he explained that the Mosaic Covenant did not abolish the Abrahamic Covenant but built upon it. Every covenant builds upon the previouis one.
Keep listening. I think it's great.
The description in the AH lexicon is of a tent of protection...and a seed.
When the seed or the word is planted...it is watered, sunlight shines, and growth comes.
Thats' the picture of grace in our life. As Paul said, one plants..another waters, but God gives the increase.
Does anyone know where this scripture is found? Can't find it.
When the seed or the word is planted...it is watered, sunlight shines, and growth comes.
Thats' the picture of grace in our life. As Paul said, one plants..another waters, but God gives the increase.
Does anyone know where this scripture is found? Can't find it.
Here is a a big problem with this forum in general.
You state:
People who don't understand this teaching have within their minds spiritual strongholds that war against God's wisdom and grace.
The above statement is made with regard to eternal security.
When you say "People who don't", you're, in effect, setting yourself up as the ultimate authority when, in fact, you are not.
What you can say is why you believe in eternals security and explain why you think the other person is wrong, but you cannot set yourself up as the authority.
This is YOUR opinion.
Earlier on in this thread, I posted about 15 early Church theologians who believed that salvation can be lost. One of them knew John the Apostle personally.
Don't you believe they would know more about this than You?
So, yes. We can give our opinion, but we cannot say that those who DO NOT AGREE with us DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
You state:
People who don't understand this teaching have within their minds spiritual strongholds that war against God's wisdom and grace.
The above statement is made with regard to eternal security.
When you say "People who don't", you're, in effect, setting yourself up as the ultimate authority when, in fact, you are not.
What you can say is why you believe in eternals security and explain why you think the other person is wrong, but you cannot set yourself up as the authority.
This is YOUR opinion.
Earlier on in this thread, I posted about 15 early Church theologians who believed that salvation can be lost. One of them knew John the Apostle personally.
Don't you believe they would know more about this than You?
So, yes. We can give our opinion, but we cannot say that those who DO NOT AGREE with us DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
Another picture of grace:
~JesusIsa 61:1 "The Spirit of the LORD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me; he has sent me to bring good news to the oppressed and to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives, and release from darkness for the prisoners;
body of Christ:
Isa 61:2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, the day of vengeance of our God;
to comfort all who mourn;
Isa 61:3 to provide for those who grieve in Zion—to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, a mantle of praise instead of a spirit of despair."
Proclamation to all of Israel (spiritual, physical)
"Then people will call them "Oaks of Righteousness", "The Planting of the LORD", in order to display his splendor.
Isa 61:4 They will rebuild the ancient ruins; they will restore the places long devastated; they will build again the ruined cities, they will build again the places devastated for many generations.
Isa 61:5 Strangers will stand and feed your flocks, and foreigners will work your land and dress your vines.
Isa 61:6 But as for you, you will be called priests of the LORD, and you will be named ministers of our God. You will feed on the wealth of the nations, and you will boast about their riches.
Isa 61:7 Instead of your shame you will receive double, and instead of disgrace people will shout with joy over your inheritance; therefore you will inherit a double portion in their land; everlasting joy will be yours."
Isa 61:8 "For I, the LORD, love justice, and I hate robbery and iniquity; I will faithfully present your reward and make an everlasting covenant with you.
Isa 61:9 Your offspring will be known among the nations, and your descendants among the people. All who see them will acknowledge them, that they are an offspring the LORD has blessed."
Isa 61:10 "I will heartily rejoice in the LORD, my soul will delight in my God; for he has wrapped me in garments of salvation; he has arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, just like a bridegroom, like a priest with a garland, and like a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
Isa 61:11 For just as the soil brings forth its shoots, and as a garden makes what is sown within it spring up, so the LORD God will make righteousness and praise spring up before all the nations
~JesusIsa 61:1 "The Spirit of the LORD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me; he has sent me to bring good news to the oppressed and to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives, and release from darkness for the prisoners;
body of Christ:
Isa 61:2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, the day of vengeance of our God;
to comfort all who mourn;
Isa 61:3 to provide for those who grieve in Zion—to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, a mantle of praise instead of a spirit of despair."
Proclamation to all of Israel (spiritual, physical)
"Then people will call them "Oaks of Righteousness", "The Planting of the LORD", in order to display his splendor.
Isa 61:4 They will rebuild the ancient ruins; they will restore the places long devastated; they will build again the ruined cities, they will build again the places devastated for many generations.
Isa 61:5 Strangers will stand and feed your flocks, and foreigners will work your land and dress your vines.
Isa 61:6 But as for you, you will be called priests of the LORD, and you will be named ministers of our God. You will feed on the wealth of the nations, and you will boast about their riches.
Isa 61:7 Instead of your shame you will receive double, and instead of disgrace people will shout with joy over your inheritance; therefore you will inherit a double portion in their land; everlasting joy will be yours."
Isa 61:8 "For I, the LORD, love justice, and I hate robbery and iniquity; I will faithfully present your reward and make an everlasting covenant with you.
Isa 61:9 Your offspring will be known among the nations, and your descendants among the people. All who see them will acknowledge them, that they are an offspring the LORD has blessed."
Isa 61:10 "I will heartily rejoice in the LORD, my soul will delight in my God; for he has wrapped me in garments of salvation; he has arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, just like a bridegroom, like a priest with a garland, and like a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
Isa 61:11 For just as the soil brings forth its shoots, and as a garden makes what is sown within it spring up, so the LORD God will make righteousness and praise spring up before all the nations
Son 4:16 Awake, north wind, and come, south wind. Make my garden breathe out, let its fragrance flow. Let my beloved come into his garden, and let him eat its choice fruits.
We are or our hearts are the garden of the Lord. Holy Spirit the wind. The spices are the anointing fragrance of the fruits of Holy Spirit...
All a picture of the work of Holy Spirit in our life. If He rules the hearts of Kings who aren't even His...how much more the heart of His own children.
We limit His grace too much in our thinking.
We are or our hearts are the garden of the Lord. Holy Spirit the wind. The spices are the anointing fragrance of the fruits of Holy Spirit...
All a picture of the work of Holy Spirit in our life. If He rules the hearts of Kings who aren't even His...how much more the heart of His own children.
We limit His grace too much in our thinking.
You are welcome, Stones of Fire. I wondered if you also maybe meant this: Amos 9:11-15
In that day
“I will restore David’s fallen shelter—
I will repair its broken walls
and restore its ruins—
and will rebuild it as it used to be,
12 so that they may possess the remnant of Edom
and all the nations that bear my name,”
declares the Lord, who will do these things.
13 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
14 and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.
“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”
says the Lord your God.
In that day
“I will restore David’s fallen shelter—
I will repair its broken walls
and restore its ruins—
and will rebuild it as it used to be,
12 so that they may possess the remnant of Edom
and all the nations that bear my name,”
declares the Lord, who will do these things.
13 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
14 and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.
“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”
says the Lord your God.
The term "cheap grace" has also been used by some that believe we can lose salvation and thus if someone believes that Jesus is not a liar when He said "The Holy Spirit will be in you forever". John 14:16 - they need to come up with a derogatory term to attack those that believe in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.
This is very unfortunate because it cost our Lord Jesus Christ the shedding of His blood and His life on this earth to save us. He is the Savior - not us.
Make no mistake about it - there is an all out war against the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. But the earth shall be filled with the glory/goodness and knowledge of the Lord in these last days.
We need to be boldly proclaiming the Lord's wondrous grace and love to every one and leave the rest in the hands of the Lord. Boldly proclaim Christ and Him crucified and that we too were crucified with Him and have been raised to newness of life.
We are just as dependent on the Lord's life in us for life and living just as Jesus was dependent on the Father inside of Him. Jesus said that He wasn't doing the works but His Father was doing His works through Him. Jesus said - "I can do nothing from my own initiative".
He is the Vine - we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing.
Unless the Lord build the house - they labor in vain that build it.
This is very unfortunate because it cost our Lord Jesus Christ the shedding of His blood and His life on this earth to save us. He is the Savior - not us.
Make no mistake about it - there is an all out war against the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. But the earth shall be filled with the glory/goodness and knowledge of the Lord in these last days.
We need to be boldly proclaiming the Lord's wondrous grace and love to every one and leave the rest in the hands of the Lord. Boldly proclaim Christ and Him crucified and that we too were crucified with Him and have been raised to newness of life.
We are just as dependent on the Lord's life in us for life and living just as Jesus was dependent on the Father inside of Him. Jesus said that He wasn't doing the works but His Father was doing His works through Him. Jesus said - "I can do nothing from my own initiative".
He is the Vine - we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing.
Unless the Lord build the house - they labor in vain that build it.