Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,081
#10,081
PeterJens said:
But the idolatry of assurance will be its downfall.
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Idolotry is putting another god over the God of heaven. or making something more important than God.

security in the God of heaven is not idolotry. It is putting the God of heaven and his son above ALL other things, including ourselves.

The idolotry of legalism and self righteousness with be your downfall. Because it puts self focus over the God of heaven and his son.

It amases me that you would condemn people who have faith in God as their security.. It just goes to show what you really think..

and as I mentioned to ariel a few days ago. Why you can not see this, is beyond me.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#10,082
#10,082
eternally-gratefull said:
I mean the part about putting a kid under the law.. He does not chasten because of the law.. Thats the part I was wondering about. making sure I understood you right,
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Why does He chastens? How does someone determine what is and isn't sin if you don't use the Law God gives?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,083
#10,083
PeterJens said:
:cool:
I have no bitterness. What am I bitter about?

God bless you, may you praise the Lord and give Him all the glory through the cross,
Amen.
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Yeah you have no botterness..

You sweet talk me, yet refuse to answer anything I said about security.

WHere do you think that comes from Peter? Why can't you respond? Is it that hard?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,084
#10,084
Ariel82 said:
Why does He chastens? How does someone determine what is and isn't sin if you don't use the Law God gives?
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He chastens us to correct us.

You can not find all sin in the law. It was never given for that, There are things that are sin that are not mentioned in the law. The law was given for one purpose. to lead us to christ.

What is sin? I think we may need a thread on this, because I think this is one of the big issues which seperate alot of people.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#10,085
#10,085
Ariel82 said:
Why does He chastens? How does someone determine what is and isn't sin if you don't use the Law God gives?
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◄ 2 Peter 1 ►

3His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us toc his own glory and excellence,d 4by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue,e and virtue with knowledge, 6and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8For if these qualitiesf are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. 10Therefore, brothers,g be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#10,086
#10,086
eternally-gratefull said:

He chastens us to correct us.

You can not find all sin in the law. It was never given for that, There are things that are sin that are not mentioned in the law. The law was given for one purpose. to lead us to christ.

What is sin? I think we may need a thread on this, because I think this is one of the big issues which seperate alot of people.
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Oh I forgot, we have a different definition of what God's law is. You think I refer to the Mosaic laws, when I refer to God's eternal moral laws that are externally expressed by,the mosaic law but internally written in the hearts of all of creation.

It is by God's eternal moral law that the world will be judged and by which rules the race of life is run.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#10,087
Feb 24, 2015
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#10,087
Ariel82 said:
Now you insult me PeterJens.
I don't "pander". I know God accepts me and I don't need anyone else approval.
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Ariel - I cannot distinguish you from those you empathise with. Lots of people have had
the same problem discerning what you actually hold to because you respond to people as
if they are innocent of picking fights and not being honest about their own beliefs.

I do suffer from pride, the desire to be consistent in my models of faith.
I know this is probably impossible, because different perspective of the same truth
can appear contradictatory. So I attempt to follow a consistent path through it all.
Now we as a small group have spent months saying very similar things. So there is
little point trying to change the positions.

There is the problem of intelligence and ways of expressing oneself. Some are less
gifted than others.

So my propositions are not "straw men" but real positions or ideas. Now in describing
them one always falls into compromise and failure, but one hopes to create a good enough
representation to make it helpful. Now being an extrovert, it is actually how I talk through
an idea with myself as much as others.

Now many of these points will only ever exist here between us, because of the unique
way this environment is constructed. To make this work there has to be a degree of grace,
but then obviously that is largely missing, but praise God I will still continue in His strength.

And Ariel, God loves you, like He loves me, and this is a brutal place, but we are talking
life and death, heaven and hell, not nice touchy feelly things, and I am accused of being
satanic, doomed to hell, and by others a righteous lover of God. So Hallelujah that here
we can still rejoice that in the cross we have been found and forgiven, Amen.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,088
#10,088
Ariel82 said:
Oh I forgot, we have a different definition of what God's law is. You think I refer to the Mosaic laws, when I refer to God's eternal moral laws that are externally expressed by,the mosaic law but internally written in the hearts of all of creation.

It is by God's eternal moral law that the world will be judged and by which rules the race of life is run.
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ok, see thats whay I asked, glad we got this settled.. You had e worried there..lol
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#10,089
Feb 24, 2015
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#10,089
eternally-gratefull said:

Yeah you have no botterness..
You sweet talk me, yet refuse to answer anything I said about security.
WHere do you think that comes from Peter? Why can't you respond? Is it that hard?
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EG - :cool: there is no point answering anything you say, because you will respond
totally differently because that is your style.

For me to engage with you at any level, I have to believe I am building a model
with my words in your mind. If we cannot agree at this level there is not real
communication.

I had this conversation with my daughter on tuesday. Some people, a few words
spoken and you know what they are thinking, while others they have to process
slowly and the lights come on, one by one.

So all I can say is, God bless you. :cool:
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#10,091
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
113
#10,091
PeterJens said:
EG - :cool: there is no point answering anything you say, because you will respond
totally differently because that is your style.

For me to engage with you at any level, I have to believe I am building a model
with my words in your mind. If we cannot agree at this level there is not real
communication.

I had this conversation with my daughter on tuesday. Some people, a few words
spoken and you know what they are thinking, while others they have to process
slowly and the lights come on, one by one.

So all I can say is, God bless you. :cool:
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here is why you and others refuse to have direct dialog- you ( wrongly ) think you do not sin. you , and others, have this religious system set up in your minds, so that you always come out to be correct.

engaging in actual Q and A dialog might find some cracks in that system, so you just refuse to do it.

as e.g., says, sad. lost. blind.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#10,092
#10,092
Peterjens,

I typically ignore fights and mudslinging from both sides because I find it futile to engage in such immature behavior.

I address what people have clearly stated they believe, while you like to build strawmen and pretend they are real.

They are not, but you want to waste everyone's time defending what you falsely believe others are saying.

I wonder when you will get tired of playing pretend and actually listen to what people actually say.

I emphathize with anyone who shines God's light, even if it's hidden behind strawmen or false immature accusation of what others believes.

The reason why you and others can't figure me out is because I am on God's side, even if folks are immature. I still see people as God's children. Some I may suspect as being enemies to God, but unlike most I truly believe in blessing and actually loving my enemies.

To speak the Truth in love is the only way, slaves get set free because it tears down spiritual strongholds that keep them from accepting Jesus as their Savior.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,093
#10,093
PeterJens said:
EG - :cool: there is no point answering anything you say, because you will respond
totally differently because that is your style.

For me to engage with you at any level, I have to believe I am building a model
with my words in your mind. If we cannot agree at this level there is not real
communication.

I had this conversation with my daughter on tuesday. Some people, a few words
spoken and you know what they are thinking, while others they have to process
slowly and the lights come on, one by one.

So all I can say is, God bless you. :cool:
Click to expand...

Yeah whatever. (your only fooling yourself)

If your going to attack a person or people, and make a claim against them, You have to give that person or people, time and an audience to explain what he or she really thinks. You attack people and claim they make God (security) and idol. and when someone tries to show you how that is not true, you totally ignore thier response

As usual, when someone tries to explain to you how that is not true. you refuse to even acknoweldge or respond to the answer.

Maybe you need to talk to you daughter how to learn how to discuss things?

If you do not want to answer, or can;t just say so, It does not matter to me if you answer or not. But your refusal to answer is seen by all.. and it will affect what people think of you. Especially new people. Like you make a claim, and when someone counters your claim, you refuse to answer? Thats not good.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#10,094
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#10,094
At this place to we find the true reality of the universe and our creator.
This is where our security is founded in Christ Jesus our Lord and saviour.

 
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Ariel82

Guest
#10,095
#10,095
gb9 said:
here is why you and others refuse to have direct dialog- you ( wrongly ) think you do not sin. you , and others, have this religious system set up in your minds, so that you always come out to be correct.

engaging in actual Q and A dialog might find some cracks in that system, so you just refuse to do it.

as e.g., says, sad. lost. blind.
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Nah he has admitted to sinning...he just like building word pictures most folks call word games and don't have the patient to dialog with him about.

I call them strawmen.

He basically says....when you say this...I hear this...is this straw man what you believe? It you don't address my strawman, I will assume that I am right about your beliefs and attack accordingly.
If you attack me, it's because I am right and you worship idols...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,096
#10,096
Can someone help peter. and show how this is called idolotry?

since he refuses to answer?

Concerning using our security or status in CHrist as an idol?God sets up our status, Not mankind..

We are in christ, THAT IS A STATUS OF BEING IN CHRIST.

we were baptised IN CHRIST, that is a STATUS of being Placed into VITAL UNION WITH CHRIST.

We are part of the body of Christ, with Christ as the head THAT IS THE STATUS OF BEING IN ALIGNMENT WITH CHRIST THE HEAD,

We are called the BRIDE OF CHRIST. that is the STATUS OF BEING IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST BOUND BY LEGAL BETROTHMENT

we are called the ADOPTED children of the Father, That is the STATUS IF BEING IN A FAMILY OF GOD, MADE LEGAL HEIR, AND IN A RELATIONSHIP BOUND BY BLOOD WHICH CAN NEVER BE BROKEN

Everything the bible says about a child and God in a relation is OUR STATUS.

Open your eyes man, You will never see it if you do not get rid of your bitterness.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,097
#10,097
PeterJens said:
At this place to we find the true reality of the universe and our creator.
This is where our security is founded in Christ Jesus our Lord and saviour.

Click to expand...
see what I mean.

We preach this, And peter calls it our Idol

SMH!!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10,098
#10,098
Ariel82 said:
Nah he has admitted to sinning...he just like building word pictures most folks call word games and don't have the patient to dialog with him about.

I call them strawmen.

He basically says....when you say this...I hear this...is this straw man what you believe? It you don't address my strawman, I will assume that I am right about your beliefs and attack accordingly.
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I could be wrong, I know he admitted to being a sinner at one time, But now he just admits that sometimes he messes up or has an OOPSIE and commits some small tedious sin that was by accident.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#10,099
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
113
#10,099
eternally-gratefull said:

I could be wrong, I know he admitted to being a sinner at one time, But now he just admits that sometimes he messes up or has an OOPSIE and commits some small tedious sin that was by accident.
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what I just cannot get my head around is this- if a person believes in a all-seeing, all-knowing Lord God almighty, then why in blue blazes would a person attempt to hide and excuse the sin in their life when God already knows it, and knew exactly what that person was going to do before they ever did it..

we get accused of being soft of sin, easy believeism, etc........ when in truth we see how awesome , Holy and great the Lord is, and feel our own unworthiness , and hit our knees and thank Him for sending His Son to rescue us....
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#10,100
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#10,100
Ariel82 said:
Peterjens,
I typically ignore fights and mudslinging from both sides because I find it futile to engage in such immature behavior.
I address what people have clearly stated they believe, while you like to build strawmen and pretend they are real.
They are not, but you want to waste everyone's time defending what you falsely believe others are saying.
I wonder when you will get tired of playing pretend and actually listen to what people actually say.
I emphathize with anyone who shines God's light, even if it's hidden behind strawmen or false immature accusation of what others believes.
The reason why you and others can't figure me out is because I am on God's side, even if folks are immature. I still see people as God's children. Some I may suspect as being enemies to God, but unlike most I truly believe in blessing and actually loving my enemies.
To speak the Truth in love is the only way, slaves get set free because it tears down spiritual strongholds that keep them from accepting Jesus as their Savior.
Click to expand...
Ariel, the problem with your propositions is everything in life is a strawman.

Everything we experience is actually a construct of our brains. We only experience anything
because our brains present it to us. Sadly empathy is only our brains creating the emotion
in us that we believe is going through another. The closer to reality this is the better our
communications progress.

So what you are saying to me is your straw men do not agree with mine. Now I can accept
that, but that is why it is always beneficial to share them. It is how we progress and grow in
life.

I like your line "I am on Gods side", it sounds somewhat pompous.

All the parties believe this, which is ironic, but is the obviously assumed position of all.

Paul said this about deeds of darkness
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light.
Eph 5:11-13
 
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