Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

[Ahwatukee]

I'm sure this will be rejected, but here goes anyway.


Galatians 3:1-9: "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit (believers), are you now being made perfect (sanctified) by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham"


Galatians 5:1-6: "(Believers) Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

You (non believers) have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we (because we) through the Spirit (believers) eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love"


Do you see the distinction made between believers and non believers here? Let's break it up (rightly dividing the word of truth?)

Galatians 3 - believers who are trying to be sanctified by the flesh

Galatians 5 - non believers trying to be justified by the flesh


In Galatians 3 the Galatians have begun in the Spirit (so they are born again believers) but they were listening to others telling them they had to maintain their salvation themselves.

In Galatians 5 clearly being addressed are non believers, because they are trying to be justified by the flesh. Then the distinction is made "FOR WE (because we) through the Spirit" which speaks of believers, so comparing believers with non believers here. Distinction is made.

"Fallen from grace" does not suggest losing salvation, since the context here is non believers who are trying to be justified by the law, so they are not saved to begin with, they are "attempting" to be saved by the law, so are not saved. They are clearly non believers.

An example - if someone keeps giving me their personal opinion on something, I could easily state to that person that they have fallen away from the bible, because they are not focusing on what the bible says. Someone who has fallen from grace in the context of the above is someone who has ignored the gospel of grace through faith in Christ alone. They have fallen from grace and instead embraced law. This is the context. This is why we should read the scriptures and not cut and paste bits we choose.


Simply put....

*Believers who are trying to maintain their salvation (claiming that salvation is conditional, that it can be lost, and that we must maintain it ourselves). The message given is to not become entangled again with the yoke of bondage which you have been freed from. You will lose your joy because you're not resting in what Christ has done for you. You are becoming entangled in the burdens that the lost are burdened with. Why become entangled again?!

*Non believers who reject grace and instead are trying to be saved by their works. These non believers have fallen away from grace and embraced the law.

Nothing about losing salvation here. You have to read it all to understand the messages being given here.

Hi Katy-Follower,

My position, according to scripture, has been and still is that, salvation is maintained through faith from first to last. There are just too many scriptures that support this. I would also have to point out that the warnings in scripture would be worthless. Why warn anyone if OSAS. One's eternal life is secure if you continue in faith. Here is another example:

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Now, something that the OSAS group likes to do, is that when an example is presented to them of someone losing their salvation, the will simply say, "he was never a true believer." Frankly, I'm tire of hearing that. Regarding this, in the scripture above please notice that in the parable the person in question is referred to as "servant" which means that he is a true believer. He says "my Master is staying away a long time and he begins beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunkards" which is basically depicting this servant as going back to living according to the sinful nature. Then it says, "the Master (Jesus) of that servant" which would also demonstrated that the servant is/was a true believer. He continues, the master will come on a day when he does not expect him and and at an hour he is not aware of," which of course is referring to the Lord's appearing to gather the church. If the master returns and finds that servant in that state, He will cut to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. Does that sound like osas?

Here is another example:

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

First of all, in regards as to whether those in question are true believers, I would direct your attention to the fact that James refers to them as "My brothers." I would also direct your attention to the words "wander from the truth." In order to wander from the truth, one would have to have previously been in the truth. You can't wander from something unless you belonged to it in the first place. Notice that in that wandered state that the wanderer is referred to as "sinner." I would also point out that when in that wandered state, the person is accumulating sin and is on their way to death.

"But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. "

"See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ, [if ] indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

In the scriptures above, there is a condition to the promise, which is the continuance of faith to the end. We are saved by grace through faith. God supplies the grace and the believers part is faith. You might want to go and read the rebukes in the letters to the churches in Revelation, because the promises and consequences are dependent on overcoming. When you read them, reverse the promises for those who do not overcome and apply the consequences.

My stand is and always has been, that our salvation is secure [if] we continue in faith from first to last. I'm not saying anything different than what scripture is teaching. To be clear, I do not believe that a believer who has turned away from Christ and goes back to willfully living according to the sinful nature would be gathered when the Lord appears to gather his church.

What would be the point of Christ telling all believes to watch and to be ready for His coming if everyone goes regardless of their state when He appears?

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus is a walk. If abiding alone makes us pure, to walk away we defile ourselves, dry up,
wither and die.

But let us be honest, those who talk so angrily sound like they have never found the place of
abiding, and are fearful Christ is not real. They need a foundation of true repentance and cleansing,
so deep they will never forget.

The simple test is, is there sorrow for sin? Without sorrow you can never know the way of Christ.
No one can look on the cross and laugh and smile. This is the place of death and grief, of the deepest
emotions we ever feel. It is why Christ is so profound, like light in a dark place, that never goes out.

The burden many carry is to forgive themselves and know Christ cleansing and love. The reality of the
anointing of the Holy Spirit eludes many along with the joy of their salvation, but in true humbling there
is also being lifted up in praise.

 

[Chris1975]

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

....He says "my Master is staying away a long time and he begins beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunkards" which is basically depicting this servant as going back to living according to the sinful nature.

Good post Ahwatukee.

An additional insight I've gleaned whilst reading this (another onion layer so to speak) is that this servant begins to beat his fellow servants.

Why???

I believe God is showing me this: What did this Wicked Servant do? He went back into Eating and Drinking with Drunkards (this we all know to mean worldliness). But we also see Him beating his fellow servants. This means that he turns on other believers who disapprove of what he is doing. In other words, feel free to come and do what I do, but if you disapprove I will beat on you (you shalt surely not die, as the serpent says).

We see a lot of defence and re-entroning of sin within the church body. Anyone who speaks against this is "beat upon".

 

[Grace777x70]

NO one is supporting sinning as many have posted about it's destructiveness in our lives. What people are against are those teachings that deny the work of Christ and go against the very plain teachings of the believer having eternal life and that Jesus said that they Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16

People are against he false gospel of doing "works" to save us. Christ alone and His blood being shed is our Savior.

BTW - the "wicked servant" parable is talking about Israel and how they have killed the prophets and men of God sent to them and gone on with their own lives rejecting God's messengers. Those that reject the message of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection do the exact same thing.

Look at the threads here in CC and you will see those that attack and malign those Christians that stand for the grace of God and that the preaching and teaching of Christ Himself by His grace alone "teaches" us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12

 

[Ahwatukee]

Morning Grace777,

What people are against are those teachings that deny the work of Christ

In order for anyone to participate in the work of Christ, they must have faith in Him and not just the initial faith, but continual faith, from beginning to end.

Jesus said that they Holy Spirit will be in you forever

If faith is maintained. I have already demonstrated this issue with the scripture below:

But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Eternal security is dependent upon faith from first to last. I've already demonstrated Col.1:23 that there is shows that there is a condition to salvation, which is that we must continue in faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. If we stop having faith we break our connection to God's grace. The scriptures that I provided here and on the other post are self explanatory.

We must continue in the same faith that we began with to the end.

 

[Chris1975]

NO one is supporting sinning as many have posted about it's destructiveness in our lives. What people are against are those teachings that deny the work of Christ and go against the very plain teachings of the believer having eternal life and that Jesus said that they Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16

People are against he false gospel of doing "works" to save us. Christ alone and His blood being shed is our Savior.

BTW - the "wicked servant" parable is talking about Israel and how they have killed the prophets and men of God sent to them and gone on with their own lives rejecting God's messengers. Those that reject the message of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection do the exact same thing.

Look at the threads here in CC and you will see those that attack and malign those Christians that stand for the grace of God and that the preaching and teaching of Christ Himself by His grace alone "teaches" us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12

Your quote in Red above.....and these verses to which it relates:

[SUP]48 [/SUP]But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]49 [/SUP]and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, [SUP]50 [/SUP]the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, [SUP]51 [/SUP]and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Come down to this:
- You don't believe such a servant will go to hell. You believe that it is "destructive" to the life of that servant, but that they will be saved anyway.
- I believe the Word is true, namely: "Jesus" will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Namely that this servant will be treated as any unbeliever, and his portion will be hades.

Your quote in blue above: This does not refer to Israel. It refers to a servant who should be heeding the Master's word and waiting upon him - but instead falls back into the world. He 'eats and drinks with drunkards'. How you got to the whole of Israel with this is faulty. Because Jesus here is talking of the second coming, whereas the Israel you refer to was looking for the first coming. Jesus even talks of this being positioned at the end of the age. This is already in the Church age, where the two become one (Israel and Gentiles).

 

[Grace777x70]

Your quote in Red above.....and these verses to which it relates:

[SUP]48 [/SUP]But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]49 [/SUP]and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, [SUP]50 [/SUP]the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, [SUP]51 [/SUP]and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Come down to this:
- You don't believe such a servant will go to hell. You believe that it is "destructive" to the life of that servant, but that they will be saved anyway.
- I believe the Word is true, namely: "Jesus" will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Namely that this servant will be treated as any unbeliever, and his portion will be hades.

Your quote in blue above: This does not refer to Israel. It refers to a servant who should be heeding the Master's word and waiting upon him - but instead falls back into the world. He 'eats and drinks with drunkards'. How you got to the whole of Israel with this is faulty. Because Jesus here is talking of the second coming, whereas the Israel you refer to was looking for the first coming. Jesus even talks of this being positioned at the end of the age. This is already in the Church age, where the two become one (Israel and Gentiles).

That is your own interpretation of the "wicked servant" parable. ( Making doctrines out of a parable is a recipe for disaster )

Many of the things Jesus said was to the Jewish generation that He was in. Jesus said that the blood of all the prophets would fall on " this generation". The Jews were waiting for their Messiah to come but didn't see that He would come as a suffering Messiah.

We are sons/daughters of God now - not mere servants like the children of Israel were called. ( we do serve Him now as a bond-slave out of our son-ship )

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16

Now everyone must answer for themselves. Is Jesus a liar?

Is Jesus lying to us when He said "It is My Father's will that I lose none that come to Me."

Is Jesus lying when He said " No one can pluck them out of My hand nor my Father's hand".

Is Jesus lying when He said. "Whosoever believes in Me shall have eternal life".

Is John lying to us when he said that the truth abides in us forever? The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. Jesus is the truth.

2 John 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The elder to the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] forthe sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


Everyone will have to ask themselves if Jesus is a liar. He is NOT a liar. I believe Him and thus preach and teach to rely on Christ's work of grace through faith so that we can walk in Him and the people of the world can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

 

[mailmandan]

That is your own interpretation of the "wicked servant" parable. (Making doctrines out of a parable is a recipe for disaster)

Many of the things Jesus said was to the Jewish generation that He was in. Jesus said that the blood of all the prophets would fall on " this generation". The Jews were waiting for their Messiah to come but didn't see that He would come as a suffering Messiah.

We are sons/daughters of God now - not mere servants like the children of Israel were called. ( we do serve Him now as a bond-slave out of our son-ship )

Amen! The talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). *Those who produce no results are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a cruel and ruthless opportunist, "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a servant does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

 

[popeye]

Amen! The talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). *Those who produce no results are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a cruel and ruthless opportunist, "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a servant does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

It would be better to say you don't know than to say servants are not Gods family.

What about the verse ".....having departed and rejecting the things of Christ......the last state is worse than the first..."

Clearly the option is there to turn away after conversion.

 

[popeye]

Amen! The talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). *Those who produce no results are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a cruel and ruthless opportunist, "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a servant does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

It would be better to say you don't know than to say servants are not Gods family.

What about the verse ".....having departed and rejecting the things of Christ......the last state is worse than the first..."

Clearly the option is there to turn away after conversion.

 

[mailmandan]

It would be better to say you don't know than to say servants are not Gods family.

So according to your logic, ALL the Jews were part of God's family because they were His servant who He has chosen?

What about the verse ".....having departed and rejecting the things of Christ......the last state is worse than the first..."

Clearly the option is there to turn away after conversion.

The latter end is worse than the beginning for those because rejecting this knowledge (greater light) will make them more accountable at the judgment. Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. ​Those cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

 

[popeye]

So according to your logic, ALL the Jews were part of God's family because they were His servant who He has chosen?

The latter end is worse than the beginning for those because rejecting this knowledge (greater light) will make them more accountable at the judgment. Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. ​Those cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Ok,you are looking at a concept THROUGH osas.

I understand osas. I understand it's logic. I even walk alongside it,for a while. But I also do not take things off the table.

You are ASSUMING the prodigal would be rescued while in the hog pen. You nor I do not know,but to assume it is just as bad as taking God's property as far as who is or isn't in the book of life.

 

[followjesus]

very sound post, and we can never forget the willingness of the Lord, to pick us up when we stumle in our faith, Hes not demanding us be perfect and then Hell save us, but simply as you have made so plian here, that we continue in the Knoweldge Given us, theres no shame in a believer falling and calling out for help and mercy, i think its when we stop pressing forward and allowing His word to re make us that we get in dangerous territory. there is security in following the Lord and there is grace and forgiveness when we need it and call out.

God bless you and Keep you

 

[followjesus]

for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
1 Thess 5:2

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1 John 1:7

Remember the gospel is a gospel of light, illuminating ones very heart and soul.
So as we walk in the light there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

If rather condemnation does weigh heavy on you, repent and believe on the cross
for the forgiveness of sins, and you will be saved, for the King is coming, and the
time draws near. Halleluyah, Praise to the King

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1 John 1:7

just to add to what you are saying here peter

john 3:16-21 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."


its Hard to accept that we need to come into the light, because humans are creatures with darkness in us, some morethan others, but all before Jesus, have some level of darkness in our hearts stemming from the deception in eden, the changing of mans mind. the Light as you are making very plain in your statement is the gospel ministry of Jesus, this kind of to me goes back to a previous statement you made about " the testing of our hearts"

when we believe in Jesus, and come to His teachings, all of us if were hinest will find things in us, illuminated by His words, things that show us some darkness in our ways, in our hearts and minds. so, theres a point when this happens that we need to stand in those things He is teaching, even though its exposing the hidden things in our minds and hearts, and deeds. when we do this, there is power in His light to extinguish the darkness revealed. Because of what He has done in dying for us, and we have our faith in him, we must let His ways be ours, rather than with holding or trying to Hide the things exposed By His word of Life and light, we simply acknowledge the truth that He is the One who knows Gods ways, so Hes always right, and if were in disagreement, were in the wrong.

Our deeds then are wrought in God, created by His words of truth, correcting our thoughts held contrary, the renewing of the mind, and Heart renews Our desires and deeds come from what is created in us, by the Word of God accomplished By Grace, and established by the truth of the Knowledge of Jesus, who was shining Gods mind and thinking to the world, in order to save us from the condemnation already established beforehand by the mosaic Law.

when we step into a dark room, we cant see anything clearly if at all, but when we reach out and turn on the light, everything becomes visible, the mess, as well as the things in order. its quite exsposing to stand in the light, when we have lived our lives in the darkness, not seeing clearly. so in coming to His light we find out were not as "good" as we had assumed in the darkened room when we couldnt see. its almost Like Jesus is a mirror for the truth in us, what we are meant to be, and what we truly are. this to me, is one of the most important parts of the gospel and what drives some away because the deeds of darkness, humans enjoy, and dont necassarily have the desire to be changed until we begin seeing clearly and feeling the inexpressable Joy that is found in walking in His ways, by the Power of His word and our wilingness to give all we are in trust to Him, that He will make us for the better rather than him taking away what we enjoy, we realize we really werent enjoying those thing as we thought, but rather we had forgotten who God meant for us to be, and then find what we have been missing out on all along the things of the Light and Life.

 

[valiant]

Ok,you are looking at a concept THROUGH osas.

Well I don't like the term osas for it doesn't describe the logic behind eternal security, which rests on God's efforts. But there can be no doubt that Jesus taught eternal security (and therefore osas). He said, 'and this is the Father's will that sent me, that of ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME I should lose nothing, but should raise them up at the Last Day.' Personally I see in this His guarantee that He will never lose them, but will keep them to the end, as also in John 10.27-29.

So I am looking through Jesus Christ and His faithfulness and not through osas.

I understand osas. I understand it's logic

It's logic is simple, that once He saves He keeps.

. I even walk alongside it,for a while.

well I once walked the other way. until the Holy Spirit brought home to me the truth of eternal security. through the saving and keeping power of Christ. And oh what blessedness it brought me. No more worrying about whether I was quite up to scratch, but the knowledge that in the end He would have kept me up to scratch, as with Peter.

But I also do not take things off the table.

when the table contains a promise of Jesus Christ that's good enough for me.

You are ASSUMING the prodigal would be rescued while in the hog pen

The parable of the prodigal son was justifying His saving of publicans and sinners. The stress was on the Father's love, being ever willing to welcome with open arms sinners who came to Him. The son was a son of Israel. not a son of God. We must never overstress the details of parables which tended to have one or two main lessons while not being applied in every detail.. Otherwise the elder son is non existent, For who has ever been with God?

. You nor I do not know,but to assume it is just as bad as taking God's property as far as who is or isn't in the book of life.

Not intended to be a lesson of the parable.

 

[thehardertruths]

Yeah it just means you were never saved to begin with.

This is not a great response to Scripture. I hear pastors on the radio saying this as well, similarly with no biblical response. What you are saying does not agree with the Scriptures that were quoted - you must provide some kind of evidence of this belief.

 

[valiant]

This is not a great response to Scripture. I hear pastors on the radio saying this as well, similarly with no biblical response. What you are saying does not agree with the Scriptures that were quoted - you must provide some kind of evidence of this belief.

The evidence lies in Jesus faithulness to His promises

 

[valiant]

It would be better to say you don't know than to say servants are not Gods family.

I am absolutely certain Jesus was portraying that he was not of Gods family. Jesus was talking to people who knew that the Scribes and Pharisees whom Jesus condemned were 'servants of God.' But they had never been saved.

 

[Sagart]

The evidence lies in Jesus faithulness to His promises

The promises that you have posted were not His promises—they were perversions of His promises; and that fact has been proven repeatedly in this thread.

 

[valiant]

The promises that you have posted were not His promises—they were perversions of His promises; and that fact has been proven repeatedly in this thread.

And this is the Father's will Who sent me that of ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME I should lose nothing but should raise them up at the last day,(John 6.39);

OK show me where this is a perversion of His promises?