Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
Amen.....growth and maturity......and the fruit/works come from the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ....the results of that is.....

saved UNTO GOOD WORKS.....NOT SAVED BY GOOD WORKS!!!!!!
yeah i agree, its just sometimes, the idea becomes that the works arent for us, when Like you said there, its our ultimate purpose to do the works ordained By His word. i think often in these discussions we arent really hearing the others because were at a different stage of growth, and our sight isnt the same. ive always held that salvation has to, and can only be between Jesus and myself for me, and Jesus and yourself for you.

in times past i was probably on the ten most wanted list according to my sins, because i was simply a seedling in the faith, not strong enough to bear the fruit yet, But i cant remember even at my worst ever feeling condemned, or like i wasnt good enough for Jesus.

as time has passed and i kept from denying the things that make it evident we are to do the word, even though i couldnt say i was doing it, i kept accepting the truth of Jesus even when i didnt measure up, and the word is powerful and faithful enough to work in me daily, still have not ever felt lost or condemned and still am not perfect, but the man i was before is gone, and something new has come forth in my life. all praises to God, in Jesus name. there is power in His word, to keep us from condemnation, and to free us from the grasp of sin.......we simply persevere in belief that the word creates in us. Not always easy but man it sure leaves a heart like ive never Known before, and couldnt have ever acchieved on my own. Makes the warnings Look different as if they are meant for life, to guide me in safety rather than oppress me. theres comfort, reprove, correction, forgiveness, provision, Life, assurance and all the rest in Gods word. Jesus won my heart and im a fool for His word.

im not sure this will make sense to anyone, but the best thing paul ever said was

phillipians 3:7 -15 " But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. "

God bless bro, each day we just walk by faith whether a seedling or a tree, Jesus is a goal were not gonna reach, but we have a goal.


 
A

Ariel82

Guest
agree, the forgone conclusion of the text is righteousness, or as Solomon said our whole purpose in life is to fear God and keep his commandments, of which the apostle Paul said was our reasonable service...Some perceive that obeying God is grievous and unreasonable, but Jesus said that His commandments were not grievous..go figure:confused:
I thought the purpose of life was to love God and love others with an open heart filled with God's AGAPE love (that expects nothing in return) and grace (not only forgiving others but also blessing them) and wisdom(without truth grounded in God's reality,all else is just delusion) ?
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Some people have an evangelical anaphylaxis event in their minds when they hear that the Holy Spirit does not "convict" the believer of sins because we have been taught differently.

The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the believer of the righteousness that is in us which indirectly points to the "works of the flesh" that we need to repent of ( change our minds on how we view them ).
I just ask one question, why?

I am deeply suspicious of any group who attack conviction of sin and a sense of morality.
When you to a doctrine that your conscience is evil if it convicts you of sin, you have lost
the plot.

Now being convicted of real sin is walking in the light. Being convicted of imaginary faults
or problems is ocd, and legalism, which does not rest in Christs love but is forever finding failure.

The sign this was true for this group was when some admitted they could not read the law without
a deep conviction coming on them. So rather than take this to the cross, it was believe forgiveness.

Now if we have truly repented of our past deeds and accepted and believed in Jesus there is no
condemnation. So I wonder what is this conviction they feel, which they do because they confess
constantly of sin in their life daily, that they are not actually addressing?

"Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."
Psalm 46:10

To know this and also to be at peace knowing there is nothing you have to do, only that which your
heart in love with prompt you to do, as an act of love.

Now I am truly the least legalistic minded believer, and walk in the freedom Christ gives me.
So I call you to look at yourself as Christ sees you, as a loved Child of God, cleansed, purified
and made whole. Then get up and walk in it. Now if sin blocks your path, repent, know sorrow,
and work it through, until Christ has shown you His way through.

"In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith."
1 John 5:3-4

John can say this because His heart was flowing with love and sin had been removed and
its hurts and pains healed. Not many find this place, and as faced with the contradiction
between experience and faith hard to face. It is always about finding God beyond religion,
and when religion has been your life, it is a shock to find this love.

I remember when the charismatic movement first hit a church I was going to, people stood
up and testified to the baptism in the Spirit and how it had changed them. They assumed they
had now authentic faith and the rest were just empty and wrong. They left the church, started
their own groups, which after a few years disappeared.

Love is stunning, it blows your mind away, seems like everything, but in the longer term, when
emotions dull, it is faithfulness, patience, hope that pulls through. The law matters, along with
structures of authority, Gods word, truth, facts, our walk.

What was interesting was yes some in the church probably had gone cold but this power of
the Spirit within is everything, some will get it, and some will not. The challenge is how to bring
people into the reality of the Lord while not condemning others who are still struggling.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,324
6,693
113
I just ask one question, why?

I am deeply suspicious of any group who attack conviction of sin and a sense of morality.
When you to a doctrine that your conscience is evil if it convicts you of sin, you have lost
the plot.

Now being convicted of real sin is walking in the light. Being convicted of imaginary faults
or problems is ocd, and legalism, which does not rest in Christs love but is forever finding failure.

The sign this was true for this group was when some admitted they could not read the law without
a deep conviction coming on them. So rather than take this to the cross, it was believe forgiveness.

Now if we have truly repented of our past deeds and accepted and believed in Jesus there is no
condemnation. So I wonder what is this conviction they feel, which they do because they confess
constantly of sin in their life daily, that they are not actually addressing?

"Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."
Psalm 46:10

To know this and also to be at peace knowing there is nothing you have to do, only that which your
heart in love with prompt you to do, as an act of love.

Now I am truly the least legalistic minded believer, and walk in the freedom Christ gives me.
So I call you to look at yourself as Christ sees you, as a loved Child of God, cleansed, purified
and made whole. Then get up and walk in it. Now if sin blocks your path, repent, know sorrow,
and work it through, until Christ has shown you His way through.

"In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith."
1 John 5:3-4

John can say this because His heart was flowing with love and sin had been removed and
its hurts and pains healed. Not many find this place, and as faced with the contradiction
between experience and faith hard to face. It is always about finding God beyond religion,
and when religion has been your life, it is a shock to find this love.

I remember when the charismatic movement first hit a church I was going to, people stood
up and testified to the baptism in the Spirit and how it had changed them. They assumed they
had now authentic faith and the rest were just empty and wrong. They left the church, started
their own groups, which after a few years disappeared.

Love is stunning, it blows your mind away, seems like everything, but in the longer term, when
emotions dull, it is faithfulness, patience, hope that pulls through. The law matters, along with
structures of authority, Gods word, truth, facts, our walk.

What was interesting was yes some in the church probably had gone cold but this power of
the Spirit within is everything, some will get it, and some will not. The challenge is how to bring
people into the reality of the Lord while not condemning others who are still struggling.

and I give very little credit to anyone who thinks they do not sin. this is a non realistic view of one's self, that leads one to condem people instead of helping and encouraging them.

it is perfectly fine to speak against sin, as long as one understands that they still stumble. are you ready to tell truth yet mr. jens?/ that you are not sinless.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
True repentance is trusting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and all that He has done. True humility is agreeing with what God says about the Son and about ourselves who are in the Son by the Holy Spirit forever. John 14:16

It is agreeing ( confessing which means to "say the same thing" ) that He has made us a new creation in Christ - joined as one spirit with the Lord. It is agreeing that He is our righteousness and that we don't create nor maintain our own righteousness.

It is agreeing that we have died to the law, been released from the law and not under the law anymore. We have the law of Christ in us now. He is all we need.

It is agreeing that He has cleansed our hearts and that He is living in and through us.

That we live by His grace through faith alone and not of our own self-effort in the flesh. For it is God who is at work in us - both to will ( gives us the desire ) and to do ( gives us the capability ) of His good pleasure.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
EG and his pushing me to repent and believe on Christ.
His method is to show I am proud and being defensive as if I am standing on my own self worth.

This does not work if I am standing on Christ and the cross and know my failure in myself and
100% rely on Him in faith.

My problem with belief that drove this approach was the level of hard heartedness and daily
sin being confessed.

Now this illustrates emotional realities are stronger than theological ones. So take away the
language and one person is saying, I was like you once, but this fantastic experience has happened
to me, so you must follow it, because I know you, and know what you need. I would say on a
thread like this, these two statements or convictions are impossible. We can put out a few sentences
that seem to fit, that the Lord can use, but that is it.

But this is my point. Emotional realities dictate what the words mean, so you cannot translate things
that easily or be so certain speaking into a situation. It is why we are lights, shinning the light of love
and Jesus, and it is up to others to search out the source and find this love themselves.

And why I came to cc was to shine, to be a light of Christs love and goodness, to say His word can
be relied upon and that to obey is central to everything.

John 3:36
Young's Literal Translation
he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'


J.P. Green's Literal Translation
The one believing into the Son has everlasting life; but the one disobeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

To believe is to obey and to dis-believe is to not obey.

One could read this verse as a positive statement, to believe you are saved, with the following
to not believe you are not saved, but that would be pointless, because it is in the meaning of
the first statement.

Rather to believe means to obey, so to claim you believe yet disobey is to deny your belief.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
I believe it is the accurate hearing of Christ Himself and what He has already done by His grace and love that brings true faith which has as it's own fruit - obedience - which is to believe.

Right believing in what Christ has already done releases His empowering grace within us to live godly in this present world.


Some get that disobedience is not obeying because of some translations which says..

Hebrews 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

This word for "disobedience" is really "unbelief" in Greek in Hebrews 4:6.

To not believe in the finished work of Christ for living and salvation is in fact disobedience. Relying on our own self works of righteousness is disobedience to the faith.

That's why the gospel is often called "the obedience of faith".

Even good moral living law-keeping Jewish priests came to be "obedient to the faith."


Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
and I give very little credit to anyone who thinks they do not sin. this is a non realistic view of one's self, that leads one to condem people instead of helping and encouraging them.

it is perfectly fine to speak against sin, as long as one understands that they still stumble. are you ready to tell truth yet mr. jens?/ that you are not sinless.
Good morning gb9. The problem with your accusation that I say that I have not sinned
in the past, because I have. When I will next fall or stumble I do not know. You seem to
believe you abide in sin constantly, which is odd for a redeemed believer.

And as I have said before, I can never say I am sinless, only God can do that. I only know
of the sins I have confessed and have repented of. So this argument is a bit pointless if you
cannot accept my words or my position. God bless you :eek:

By the way what sins have you commited today? Or are they too numerous to list?
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
I believe it is the accurate hearing of Christ Himself and what He has already done by His grace and love that brings true faith which has as it's own fruit - obedience - which is to believe.

Right believing in what Christ has already done releases His empowering grace within us to live godly in this present world.


Some get that disobedience is not obeying because of some translations which says..

Hebrews 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

This word for "disobedience" is really "unbelief" in Greek in Hebrews 4:6.


To not believe in the finished work of Christ for living and salvation is in fact disobedience. Relying on our own self works of righteousness is disobedience to the faith.

That's why the gospel is often called "the obedience of faith".

Even good moral living law-keeping Jewish priests came to be "obedient to the faith."


Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
New International Version
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience,

New Living Translation
So God's rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God.

English Standard Version
Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,

Berean Study Bible
Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience,

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those having received the good news formerly did not enter in because of disobedience,

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 543: ἀπείθεια

ἀπείθεια (WH ἀπειθια, except in Heb. as below (see Iota)), ἀπειθας, (ἀπειθής), disobedience (Jerome,inobedientia), obstinacy, and in the N. T. particularly obstinate opposition to the divine will: Romans 11:30, 32; Hebrews 4:6, 11; υἱοί τῆςἀπειθείας, those who are animated by this obstinacy (see υἱός, 2), used of the Gentiles: Ephesians 2:2; Ephesians 5:6; Colossians 3:6 (R G L brackets). (Xenophon, mem. 3, 5, 5; Plutarch, others.)

USES:
Ephesians 2:2 N-GFS
GRK: υἱοῖς τῆς ἀπειθείας
NAS: working in the sons of disobedience.
KJV: in the children of disobedience:
INT: sons of disobedience

Ephesians 5:6 N-GFS
GRK: υἱοὺς τῆς ἀπειθείας
NAS: comes upon the sons of disobedience.
KJV: upon the children of disobedience.
INT: sons of disobedience

Colossians 3:6 Noun-GFS
GRK: υἱοὺς τῆς ἀπειθείας
INT: sons disobedience

Hebrews 4:6 N-AFS
GRK: εἰσῆλθον δι' ἀπείθειαν
NAS: to enter because of disobedience,
KJV: in because of unbelief:
INT: did enter in on account of disobedience

Hebrews 4:11 N-GFS
GRK: πέσῃ τῆς ἀπειθείας
NAS: example of disobedience.
KJV: the same example of unbelief.
INT: might fall
of disobedience


A lie is still a lie. Why do you lie? Are you forever forgiven, & yet you lie without remorse?

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Hebrews 4:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For we
who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

"
Have believed" = Greek word for belief. Unbelief in Heb. 4:6 is the same Greek word only it has the "negative" part added to it.

The verb [FONT="Gentium" !important]apeitheō
is a term synonymous with [FONT="Gentium" !important]apisteō[/FONT] (564), “to disbelieve, mistrust,”. The root for all the words both in the [FONT="Gentium" !important]pisteuō[/FONT]-group and in the [FONT="Gentium" !important]peithomai[/FONT]-group is the base word [FONT="Gentium" !important]peith[/FONT], which has as its primary meaning “trust, confidence.”


539. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]ἀπείθεια[/FONT]
[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]apeitheia[/FONT] noun

Disobedience, willful unbelief, obstinacy.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Alpha-Gamma
.

It is abundantly clear that unbelief is disobedience.

Hebrews 4:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of
unbelief:
 
Last edited:

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,324
6,693
113
Good morning gb9. The problem with your accusation that I say that I have not sinned
in the past, because I have. When I will next fall or stumble I do not know. You seem to
believe you abide in sin constantly, which is odd for a redeemed believer.

And as I have said before, I can never say I am sinless, only God can do that. I only know
of the sins I have confessed and have repented of. So this argument is a bit pointless if you
cannot accept my words or my position. God bless you :eek:

By the way what sins have you commited today? Or are they too numerous to list?
I accept truth. the truth- the Biblical definition of sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. these are the guides I use to define sin. so, do you use these , or just make up your standards and keep them?

now, I can certainly not take God's name in vain, not lie, not steal, not lust. BUT, not doing those things DOES NOT make one sinless. there are many more sins listed in the Bible. I use all of them to define sin.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0

539. [FONT=&quot]ἀπείθεια
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]apeitheia[/FONT] noun
Disobedience, willful unbelief, obstinacy.
I have to laugh. The bible is full of obey the commandments, if you know love you
are obeying the commandments, to be a friend of Christ is to obey Him.
Christ obeyed His Fathers word, to walk in the law is not hard when you have a transformed
loving heart, it is your birth right.

Now here you are condemning those who say obey the commandments and they are in unbelief
by not just saying believe in Jesus and do what you like.

If you are saying you actually mean believe in Jesus and this empowers you to obey the commandments
then amen, but I do not think you are because you continually come out with theological mumbo jumbo.

It is like me going round my friends house as suggesting we both go somewhere and they say yes
that would be good. And off we go. I could talk about the rules of relationship, trust, conditions
etc. when actually it is just doing it. But the truth is before your revelation of Christ overwhelming
love you could not walk in His ways, and now you can. Amen, welcome to the people of God.

You are in danger of undoing it all, with this passion for bashing people over the head as if this
is a ministry of grace and love. I wonder if the legalistic passion for bashing people never leaves,
it is just the object of this passion changes. I have a cousin in law who went from being an
ardent communist, bashing the bourgeoisie to being an ardent follower of Sathya Sai Baba with the
same passion. Nothing to do with the conviction, just they needed the conviction of something
and someone to blame.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
The sky is still blue...

What happens in some people's minds is this:

Someone makes the statement:

"What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us today."

Someone else responds back to the above statement:

"What? The sky is not green- everyone knows that the sky is blue - you are condemning others that want to obey God

When people have this kind of a mindset - it is impossible to have any kind of a rational discussion with them as they continually "see" something else than what is actually said. They then proceed to talk as if this "made-up thought" is real.


And sometimes we can just agree to disagree too but to deliberately mis-represent what is really being said is deceitful and with these types I have no interaction because no good can come from it.

The Lord will be faithful to all of us to reveal Himself and His beauty.
 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
I accept truth. the truth- the Biblical definition of sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. these are the guides I use to define sin. so, do you use these , or just make up your standards and keep them?

now, I can certainly not take God's name in vain, not lie, not steal, not lust. BUT, not doing those things DOES NOT make one sinless. there are many more sins listed in the Bible. I use all of them to define sin.
gb9 - with the best will in the world, the point of bashing yourself about things that are
subjective is pointless. The law was given to differentiate between bad intentions and actual sin.

I was looking at the Lords prayer yesterday and saw Jesus uses the word debtors, and not sinners.
People can be in debt to you, and you to them and it not be sin, but also including sinful behaviour.

So we are called to walk in love, to know the intentions of others and how we can help or withhold
help. Seeking the best and appropriate way of expressing things is our walk, because sin does not
really touch us, unless things go wrong. So if the walk with Christ was actually about sin, we would
have arrived at day 1. But we spend each day doing things, with a focus and intention. Here in is
the ministry of the Spirit and our walk.

But you want to continually talk to me about sin. This must only be because you are still wrapped up
in this in some way.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
The sky is still blue...
What happens in some people's minds is this:
Someone makes the statement:
"What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us today."
Someone else responds back to the above statement:
"What? The sky is not green- everyone knows that the sky is blue - you are condemning others that want to obey God
When people have this kind of a mindset - it is impossible to have any kind of a rational discussion with them as they continually "see" something else than what is actually said. They then proceed to talk as if this "made-up thought" is real.
And sometimes we can just agree to disagree too but to deliberately mis-represent what is really being said is deceitful and with these types I have no interaction.
You are a bright guy, but it is not sown up in theology.
Humans are emotional creatures not rational ones.

I am truly glad you know the freedom in Christ and His love overflowing within you.
At least this is how it sounds. The only problem is you have made an enemy of religion,
not seeing this is just the emotional outworking of fear, grief and a desire for real answers.

Until you can relate to people in real distress and a desire to know, how can you answer
the question as to why they create such complex belief systems. You yourself have made
your version of faith a change on normal faith.

How do I know you are just a distortion of normal faith? Because you have to refer to the
original words and apply your formula. Most cults avoid this be rewriting the bible, makes it
a lot simpler. You have gone for changing the meaning of words, which equally is as flawed.

And until you can be honest about what you are doing, I will not engage with you, because
it is literally pointless. You refuse to accept even the simplest of propositions, and coming
from an evangelical background you know what they are likely to be.

What gives it all away is the need to lie about ones opposition. It started when we first
engaged with your group, reflecting back your belief system was evil.

But you are right. You hold beliefs emotionally, and if we do not say the words with the
same emotional feel, it is evil. I love Jesus and He is my Lord, and He brought me salvation,
and changed my life forever. If your belief system cannot cope with that, then it is simply
too narrow and empty. I am saved because I know Christ and follow Him. Nothing else
actually matters. This is what the charismatic revival stamped out, God sent His spirit on
people because of love and faith not theology. Until you accept this, things will not go well.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
People get convicted of the Holy Spirit...they repent...they move on to learning what God wants them to do with their lives....

What's the big issue? Why do people want to lecture about it?


Salvation is by Faith alone in what Jesus did upon the Cross and His resurrection..,.who still has issues with that statement?
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
You are a bright guy, but it is not sown up in theology.
Humans are emotional creatures not rational ones.

I am truly glad you know the freedom in Christ and His love overflowing within you.
At least this is how it sounds. The only problem is you have made an enemy of religion,
not seeing this is just the emotional outworking of fear, grief and a desire for real answers.

Until you can relate to people in real distress and a desire to know, how can you answer
the question as to why they create such complex belief systems. You yourself have made
your version of faith a change on normal faith.

How do I know you are just a distortion of normal faith? Because you have to refer to the
original words and apply your formula. Most cults avoid this be rewriting the bible, makes it
a lot simpler. You have gone for changing the meaning of words, which equally is as flawed.

And until you can be honest about what you are doing, I will not engage with you, because
it is literally pointless. You refuse to accept even the simplest of propositions, and coming
from an evangelical background you know what they are likely to be.

What gives it all away is the need to lie about ones opposition. It started when we first
engaged with your group, reflecting back your belief system was evil.

But you are right. You hold beliefs emotionally, and if we do not say the words with the
same emotional feel, it is evil. I love Jesus and He is my Lord, and He brought me salvation,
and changed my life forever. If your belief system cannot cope with that, then it is simply
too narrow and empty. I am saved because I know Christ and follow Him. Nothing else
actually matters. This is what the charismatic revival stamped out, God sent His spirit on
people because of love and faith not theology. Until you accept this, things will not go well.
This is what the charismatic revival "stamped out", mean "brought to life"
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
What is amusing is the exclusivity of some people.

****************
They come in swaggering saying we know how to divide the word of God.
You heathens over there need to repent. We have the true insight into Gods word, because
we have converted out of your faith into our own, and we know how evil you really are, hahahaha.

You are full of malice, hatred and evil. You are the worst thing in church history.
****************

I stand back and just go, what? A lot of scripture ignored, things simplified and tremendous gilt
and worldliness applied. Nothing has changed much over 2 years except it has got more overt
and extreme. And for my part, I just wonder what it is all about. Legalists turned hunters for
legalists. They say that people who have given up smoking are strongest persecutors of smokers
so the same seems to apply here, except they see legalism every where, even in scripture.

I wonder how many times people read the sermon on the mount? Once a year, or 10 years maybe.
It is like poison to them, and they go away feeling defiled and dirty. Which is obviously a lie of
satan, because they are the chosen people of God forever secure in Christ, except they do not feel
that on the inside. Rather self defeating that then.