Son's of God Genesis 6:1-8

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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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I can't speak for Johnny B but as far myself, I asked.

She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.Prov 3:18

So how do you answer your own question? Considering Job 32:3 then if you don't have an answer then at least have the decency to make something up. :eek:
he was joking lol
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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The angels are referred to as sons of God, but human believers are also called the sons of God, read Romans 8:14 as an example.
Believers are NEVER called bene Elohim. You cannot transcribe into another language words which differ in meaning and then say they are the same.
 
May 13, 2017
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Believers are NEVER called bene Elohim. You cannot transcribe into another language words which differ in meaning and then say they are the same.
:
Well that would depend on what language you speak.....Romans 8:14 calls man bene Elohim. Because it means 'sons of God' If you can't trascribe then read the original
[h=1]אגרת פולוס השליח אל-הרומיים[/h]
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Well that would depend on what language you speak.....Romans 8:14 calls man bene Elohim. Because it means 'sons of God' If you can't trascribe then read the original
אגרת פולוס השליח אל-הרומיים
no romans 8.14 calls men 'uioi theou which is very different from bene elohim.

The former is a NT conception, the latter an OT conception. The former is used of believers, the latter is NOT. (And I read Greek and Hebrew) :)
 
May 13, 2017
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no romans 8.14 calls men 'uioi theou which is very different from bene elohim.

The former is a NT conception, the latter an OT conception. The former is used of believers, the latter is NOT. (And I read Greek and Hebrew) :)
Let me put it simpler for you....
[h=1]Kehillah in Philippi 2:15 (OJB)[/h] [SUP]15 [/SUP]That you may be innocent and without michshol of blame [1:10], bnei haElohim TAMIM U’MUM ("unblemished and unspotted" Ex 12:5; Lv 22:20; Isa 53:7-9) in the midst of a DOR IKKESH UFETALTOL ("warped and crooked generation Dt 32:5), among whom you shine as the ZOHAR (Dan 12:3) in the Olam Hazeh,
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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As a Witch she saw as the spirt of lies revealed gods (legion)false prophcy. She needed Saul to discribe what he wanted to see.They always come up as a legion(many) with the need for someone to put a face on the legion. It becomes; "who you gonna call" the skies the limit.

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

Luke 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
so there were a legion of Samuels? lol

Corrupted Flesh and blood could never enter the kingdom of God. Satan remains without form as does any angel.
Angels regularly appear in human form. But if it was demon intercourse in Gen 6.1-4 they did not need to.,

What was seen was a false sign and wonder as a illusion of his fleshly mind under the influence of the father of lies. (will worship)
it was the witch who saw it, and she was expecting a familiar.

Therefore seeing of things that were not there. God sent a strong delusion so that Saul would believe the lie to confirm his unbelief.(no faith)
But Samuel WAS THERE. God sent Samuel

Samuel was dead.... not in suspended animation as in reincarnation. His new born again spirit he was given in regard to his new birth left his body of death and entered the Bosom of God the heavenly city of new Jerusalem, as the bride of Christ.
But SAMUEL appeared,

Corrupted flesh and blood that ages to show decay and leading to death cannot enter that city. Samauel is part of the first resurrection awaiting his new incorruptible body.
irrelevant. SAMUEL appeared



To assume Samuel did arise in flesh and blood and that it was not just a vision of his own mind as will worship. A person would have to establish that necromancy is a approved manner in which the Holy Spirit would bring a revelation, called prophecy.
God chooses His own methods.

It seems easy to see Saul was seeking to commune with God who was already cut off from all communication and therefore sought after a god of his mind (will worship) enticed by the father of lies through necromancy. Rachael with her god’s as idols (teraphims) that she hid from her father, would be a good example of the father of lies and false prophecy.
But God sent Samuel.

When a person seeks after (necromancy)disembodied spirits in a hope of communing with God (prophecy) in respect to any other spirit that does not have a bodily form other than the Spirit of our Father in heaven, God. They have sought after necromancy.The Catholics perform that with what they call patron saints, approved by men, and not God
So what of it? The woman said she saw Elohim. Whatever they were they were supernatural.

There is one manner that we can commune with one who has no body, the other side of the coin spells blasphemy
But the Scripture says he DID commune with him through the witch.

God simply sent a strong delusion to Saul so that he could keep believing the lie that came form will worship (his own will) Just as Satan continues to do today spread his lies.
It was no delusion, God sent Samuel

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Col 2:18
Totally irrelevant.

Angels that were not formed from the dust as a beast of the field... remain without form (DNA)
Scripture?

They do not belong to the terrestrial. Kinds multiply after kinds. They are not the kind that can multiply (no reason to)
what do you know about demon intercourse?

And were does Scripture say that angels can't take bodies capable of sex?


That portion of scripture is simply teaching us to not to be unevenly yoked.
Your whole post is irrelevant to the Question. The witch saw something and described it as Elohim (supernatural beings). As to the rest you don't know what you are talking about :)
 
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RedeemedGift

Senior Member
May 28, 2017
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Believers are NEVER called bene Elohim. You cannot transcribe into another language words which differ in meaning and then say they are the same.
I was not transcribing anything, I was pointing out the fact that "sons of God" is used in both the Hebrew OT and Greek NT, the latter obviously referring to the righteous saints. In what way do they differ in any meaningful way, besides being in different languages?

Concerning the Greek specifically (especially being the less ambiguous language of the two), why does the LXX use "huioi Theou" in Genesis 6 that Romans 8:14 and Galatians 3:26 use? Are you arguing that bane Elohim, "sons of God", strictly refers only to angelic beings in the OT whilst "sons of God" in every instance refers to the saints in the Greek NT? And it shouldn't go without notice that the LXX NEVER has "huioi Theou" in the entire book of Job. 1:5, 2:1 and 38:7 all say "angeloi", angels. Why would the LXX make a distinction between huioi Theou and angeloi?
 
May 13, 2017
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so there were a legion of Samuels? lol



Angels regularly appear in human form. But if it was demon intercourse in Gen 6.1-4 they did not need to.,



it was the witch who saw it, and she was expecting a familiar.



But Samuel WAS THERE. God sent Samuel



But SAMUEL appeared,



irrelevant. SAMUEL appeared





God chooses His own methods.



But God sent Samuel.



So what of it? The woman said she saw Elohim. Whatever they were they were supernatural.



But the Scripture says he DID commune with him through the witch.



It was no delusion, God sent Samuel



Totally irrelevant.



Scripture?



what do you know about demon intercourse?

And were does Scripture say that angels can't take bodies capable of sex?




Your whole post is irrelevant to the Question. The witch saw something and described it as Elohim (supernatural beings). As to the rest you don't know what you are talking about :)
All this talk of angels taking human form...What do they normally look like? Squid? No no. They look like daises Right?
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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Hey Johnny B...I was just wondering.....How does one get to know everything? Like How did you get to know everything?
LOL, if simply following the context of a storyline is knowing everything, where does that leave you? Because I by no means do I know everything, but that is a new rabbit trail, I'll give you a point for originality.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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Since everyone will take what I post and answer it section by section to prove their out of context point. I figured that they could take this and go section by section to show where fallen angels fell into the in the context of the storyline on the generations/genealogies of Adam to Abram.

Genesis 4:11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 15 Then the Lord said to him, “Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.


17
Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. When he built a city, he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad fathered Mehujael, and Mehujael fathered Methushael, and Methushael fathered Lamech. 19 And Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah also bore Tubal-cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

23 Lamech said to his wives:“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say: I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me. 24 If Cain's revenge is sevenfold, then Lamech's is seventy-sevenfold.”

25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.” 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the Lord.

5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.4 The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

6
When Seth had lived 105 years, he fathered Enosh. 7 Seth lived after he fathered Enosh 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Thus all the days of Seth were 912 years, and he died.


9
When Enosh had lived 90 years, he fathered Kenan. 10 Enosh lived after he fathered Kenan 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Thus all the days of Enosh were 905 years, and he died.

12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he fathered Mahalalel. 13 Kenan lived after he fathered Mahalalel 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Thus all the days of Kenan were 910 years, and he died.

15
When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he fathered Jared. 16 Mahalalel lived after he fathered Jared 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Thus all the days of Mahalalel were 895 years, and he died.

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he fathered Enoch. 19 Jared lived after he fathered Enoch 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Thus all the days of Jared were 962 years, and he died.

21
When Enoch had lived 65 years, he fathered Methuselah. 22 Enoch walked with God after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters.23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.


25
When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he fathered Lamech. 26 Methuselah lived after he fathered Lamech 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Thus all the days of Methuselah were 969 years, and he died.


28
When Lamech had lived 182 years, he fathered a son [SUB]29 [/SUB]and called his name Noah, saying, “Out of the ground that the Lord has cursed, this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the painful toil of our hands.” 30 Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters.31 Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died.


32
After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:1 When men began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6 And the Lordregretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

9
These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.10 And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


11
Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth....

10:1 These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood........32 These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood....
11:10 These are the generations of Shem. When Shem was 100 years old, he fathered Arpachshad two years after the flood...11 And Shem lived after he fathered Arpachshad 500 years and had other sons and daughters....27 Now these are the generations of Terah. Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran fathered Lot.

Since someone reminded me that the context of the story was from 1:1 to 11:32. I've added the verses that show that the storyline is about generations/genealogies, so someone can show how fallen angels fell into the contest of a storyline on the generations/genealogies of Adam to Abram?

Since I've caused myself to believe what I believe, as someone mentioned, they can show me how the fallen angels came to be in these generations/genealogies so that I can understand the truth. Here it is chop it up brake it down, show us your contextual exegete of these Scriptures.

For those that use the book of Enoch they can show how the book of Enoch mentions anyone in these generations/genealogies or how in these generations/genealogies make mention of anyone on the book of Enock to prove that the stories are the same. Two stories about a car accident can sound the same, that does not make them about the same car accident.







 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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Well that would depend on what language you speak.....Romans 8:14 calls man bene Elohim. Because it means 'sons of God' If you can't trascribe then read the original
אגרת פולוס השליח אל-הרומיים
where does it say bene Elohim?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Since everyone will take what I post and answer it section by section to prove their out of context point. I figured that they could take this and go section by section to show where fallen angels fell into the in the context of the storyline on the generations/genealogies of Adam to Abram.

Genesis 4:11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 15 Then the Lord said to him, “Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.


17
Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. When he built a city, he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad fathered Mehujael, and Mehujael fathered Methushael, and Methushael fathered Lamech. 19 And Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah also bore Tubal-cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

23 Lamech said to his wives:“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say: I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me. 24 If Cain's revenge is sevenfold, then Lamech's is seventy-sevenfold.”

25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.” 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the Lord.

5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.4 The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

6
When Seth had lived 105 years, he fathered Enosh. 7 Seth lived after he fathered Enosh 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Thus all the days of Seth were 912 years, and he died.


9
When Enosh had lived 90 years, he fathered Kenan. 10 Enosh lived after he fathered Kenan 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Thus all the days of Enosh were 905 years, and he died.

12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he fathered Mahalalel. 13 Kenan lived after he fathered Mahalalel 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Thus all the days of Kenan were 910 years, and he died.

15
When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he fathered Jared. 16 Mahalalel lived after he fathered Jared 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Thus all the days of Mahalalel were 895 years, and he died.

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he fathered Enoch. 19 Jared lived after he fathered Enoch 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Thus all the days of Jared were 962 years, and he died.

21
When Enoch had lived 65 years, he fathered Methuselah. 22 Enoch walked with God after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters.23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.


25
When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he fathered Lamech. 26 Methuselah lived after he fathered Lamech 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Thus all the days of Methuselah were 969 years, and he died.


28
When Lamech had lived 182 years, he fathered a son [SUB]29 [/SUB]and called his name Noah, saying, “Out of the ground that the Lord has cursed, this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the painful toil of our hands.” 30 Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters.31 Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died.


32
After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:1 When men began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6 And the Lordregretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

9
These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.10 And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


11
Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth....

10:1 These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood........32 These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood....
11:10 These are the generations of Shem. When Shem was 100 years old, he fathered Arpachshad two years after the flood...11 And Shem lived after he fathered Arpachshad 500 years and had other sons and daughters....27 Now these are the generations of Terah. Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran fathered Lot.

Since someone reminded me that the context of the story was from 1:1 to 11:32. I've added the verses that show that the storyline is about generations/genealogies, so someone can show how fallen angels fell into the contest of a storyline on the generations/genealogies of Adam to Abram?

Since I've caused myself to believe what I believe, as someone mentioned, they can show me how the fallen angels came to be in these generations/genealogies so that I can understand the truth. Here it is chop it up brake it down, show us your contextual exegete of these Scriptures.

For those that use the book of Enoch they can show how the book of Enoch mentions anyone in these generations/genealogies or how in these generations/genealogies make mention of anyone on the book of Enock to prove that the stories are the same. Two stories about a car accident can sound the same, that does not make them about the same car accident.

,


'These are the generations of' should strictly be translated 'these are the family histories of'. As will be seen it splits Genesis into family histories, and is the evidence of colophons on stone tablets,

We have already shown how the bene Elohim fit into the picture
 
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RedeemedGift

Senior Member
May 28, 2017
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Strong's and Brown-Driver-Brigg's definition of "to-led-aw'" do not show any strict reading as you say. Generations is perfectly valid.

Why would any Christian go to a gnostic book for doctrine?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Strong's and Brown-Driver-Brigg's definition of "to-led-aw'" do not show any strict reading as you say. Generations is perfectly valid.
Toledoth means family history. See modern lexicons.

Why would any Christian go to a gnostic book for doctrine?
What has that to do with it? I have never referred to a Gnostic book.
 

RedeemedGift

Senior Member
May 28, 2017
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Again, no strict rendering of that in the Hebrew at least. Generations perfectly is valid. Brenton's translation of the LXX renders Genesis 5:1 as genealogy, from geneseos, the exact same that the gospel of Matthew opens with Christ's genealogy, actually. Can also be translated as "natural" as it is in James 1:23.

I haven't accused you personally. But it is a sign when people feel they must go outside of the Bible to get their doctrines.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
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'These are the generations of' should strictly be translated 'these are the family histories of'. As will be seen it splits Genesis into family histories, and is the evidence of colophons on stone tablets,

We have already shown how the bene Elohim fit into the picture
Great if you have already show how the sons of God are fallen angels in the context of the storyline, then you would not mind going through these verse to show how they fit in the context of the history of these family/genealogies/generations. Since you've already proven it, all you have to do is copy and paste, this way it will all be in one post for all to judge.

Genesis 4:11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 15 Then the Lord said to him, “Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

17
Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. When he built a city, he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad fathered Mehujael, and Mehujael fathered Methushael, and Methushael fathered Lamech. 19 And Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah also bore Tubal-cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

23 Lamech said to his wives:“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say: I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me. 24 If Cain's revenge is sevenfold, then Lamech's is seventy-sevenfold.”

25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.” 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the Lord.

5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.4 The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

6
When Seth had lived 105 years, he fathered Enosh. 7 Seth lived after he fathered Enosh 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Thus all the days of Seth were 912 years, and he died.


9
When Enosh had lived 90 years, he fathered Kenan. 10 Enosh lived after he fathered Kenan 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Thus all the days of Enosh were 905 years, and he died.

12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he fathered Mahalalel. 13 Kenan lived after he fathered Mahalalel 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Thus all the days of Kenan were 910 years, and he died.

15
When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he fathered Jared. 16 Mahalalel lived after he fathered Jared 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Thus all the days of Mahalalel were 895 years, and he died.

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he fathered Enoch. 19 Jared lived after he fathered Enoch 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Thus all the days of Jared were 962 years, and he died.

21
When Enoch had lived 65 years, he fathered Methuselah. 22 Enoch walked with God after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters.23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.


25
When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he fathered Lamech. 26 Methuselah lived after he fathered Lamech 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Thus all the days of Methuselah were 969 years, and he died.


28
When Lamech had lived 182 years, he fathered a son [SUB]29 [/SUB]and called his name Noah, saying, “Out of the ground that the Lord has cursed, this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the painful toil of our hands.” 30 Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters.31 Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died.


32
After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:1 When men began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6 And the Lordregretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

9
These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.10 And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


11
Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth....

10:1 These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood........32 These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood....
11:10 These are the generations of Shem. When Shem was 100 years old, he fathered Arpachshad two years after the flood...11 And Shem lived after he fathered Arpachshad 500 years and had other sons and daughters....27 Now these are the generations of Terah. Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran fathered Lot.

Since someone reminded me that the context of the story was from 1:1 to 11:32. I've added the verses that show that the storyline is about generations/genealogies, so someone can show how fallen angels fell into the contest of a storyline on the generations/genealogies of Adam to Abram?

 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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Regardless of what one's position is on this, the teaching that the sons of God were the sons of Seth, has no scriptural basis or logical basis. It is an illogical teaching that requires adding to the story what is not there. If one does not believe that angels cohabited with humans, then believe that way, but do not stoop to making up an illogical story and trying to place it in the bible.
Great then you can show us logically by the context here in the storyline how fallen angels are the sons of God, it should not be a problem since you say it logical.

Genesis 4:11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 15 Then the Lord said to him, “Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

17
Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. When he built a city, he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad fathered Mehujael, and Mehujael fathered Methushael, and Methushael fathered Lamech. 19 And Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah also bore Tubal-cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

23 Lamech said to his wives:“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say: I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me. 24 If Cain's revenge is sevenfold, then Lamech's is seventy-sevenfold.”

25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.” 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the Lord.

5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.4 The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

6
When Seth had lived 105 years, he fathered Enosh. 7 Seth lived after he fathered Enosh 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Thus all the days of Seth were 912 years, and he died.


9
When Enosh had lived 90 years, he fathered Kenan. 10 Enosh lived after he fathered Kenan 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Thus all the days of Enosh were 905 years, and he died.

12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he fathered Mahalalel. 13 Kenan lived after he fathered Mahalalel 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Thus all the days of Kenan were 910 years, and he died.

15
When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he fathered Jared. 16 Mahalalel lived after he fathered Jared 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Thus all the days of Mahalalel were 895 years, and he died.

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he fathered Enoch. 19 Jared lived after he fathered Enoch 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Thus all the days of Jared were 962 years, and he died.

21
When Enoch had lived 65 years, he fathered Methuselah. 22 Enoch walked with God after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters.23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.


25
When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he fathered Lamech. 26 Methuselah lived after he fathered Lamech 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Thus all the days of Methuselah were 969 years, and he died.


28
When Lamech had lived 182 years, he fathered a son [SUB]29 [/SUB]and called his name Noah, saying, “Out of the ground that the Lord has cursed, this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the painful toil of our hands.” 30 Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters.31 Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died.


32
After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:1 When men began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6 And the Lordregretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

9
These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.10 And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


11
Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth....

10:1 These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood........32 These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood....
11:10 These are the generations of Shem. When Shem was 100 years old, he fathered Arpachshad two years after the flood...11 And Shem lived after he fathered Arpachshad 500 years and had other sons and daughters....27 Now these are the generations of Terah. Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran fathered Lot.
 
May 13, 2017
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LOL, if simply following the context of a storyline is knowing everything, where does that leave you? Because I by no means do I know everything, but that is a new rabbit trail, I'll give you a point for originality.
You're a good un bro
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
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Jude 6-7 (CJB)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the angels that did not keep within their original authority, but abandoned their proper sphere, he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for the Judgment of the Great Day. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And S’dom, ‘Amora and the surrounding cities, following a pattern like theirs, committing sexual sins and perversions, lie exposed as a warning of the everlasting fire awaiting those who must undergo punishment.


Jude 6-7 (AMP)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And angels who did not keep their own designated place of power, but abandoned their proper dwelling place, [these] He has kept in eternal chains under [the thick gloom of utter] darkness for the judgment of the great day, [SUP]7 [/SUP]just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent cities, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in gross immoral freedom and unnatural vice and sensual perversity. They are exhibited [in plain sight] as an example in undergoing the punishment of everlasting fire.

Seems to be plain that the sons of God are angels


Two New Testament passages shed further light on Genesis 6. They
are Jude 6-7 and 2 Peter 2:4. These verses indicate that at some point
in time a number of angels fell from their pristine state and proceeded
to commit a sexual sin that was both unusual and repugnant. Jude
6-7 states: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left
their Own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under
darkness unto the judgement of the great day. Even as Sodom and
Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh...”
These angels not only failed to keep their original dominion and
authority, but they “left their own habitation.” Habitation is a significant word: it means “dwelling place” or “heaven.” And the addition
of the Greek word idi (their own) means that they left their own private, personal, unique possession.68 Heaven was the private, personal
residence of the angels. It was not made for man but for the angels.
This is why the ultimate destination of the saints will not be Heaven
but the new and perfect Earth which God will create (Revelation
21:1-3). Heaven is reserved for the angels, but as for the beings
referred to in Jude 6-7, they abandoned it.
Not only did these angels leave Heaven, they left it once-for-all.
The Greek verb apoleipo is in the aorist tense, thus indicating a oncefor-all act. By taking the action they did, these angels made a final and
irretrievable decision. They crossed the Rubicon. Their action, says
Kenneth Wuest, “was apostasy with a vengeance.”69
As to the specific sin of these angels, we are given the facts in
Jude 7. As in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah it was the sin of
“fornication” and “going after strange flesh.” “Strange” flesh means
flesh of a different kind (Greek heteros). To commit this particularly
repugnant sin, the angels had to abandon their own domain and
invade a realm that was divinely forbidden to them. Says Wuest:
“These angels transgressed the limits of their own natures to invade
a realm of created beings of a different nature.”70 Alford confirms:
“It was a departure from the appointed course of nature and seeking after that which is unnatural, to other flesh than that appointed
by God for the fulfillment of natural desire.” The mingling o f these
two orders of being, was contrary to what God had intended, and
summarily led to God’s greatest act of judgement ever enacted upon
the human race.
​Another attempt to go outside the context of the storyline to prove a point from something that does not mention the angels having anything to do with Genesis. I could quote K&D OT commentary which is the standard on the OT, not my saying that's form Chuck Missler. Did I miss something, can you show me where Peter or Jude is saying that this has anything to do with the storyline in Genesis? As for Wuest I love the way he contradicts himself because he believed in the fallen angels theory as well.

Wuest's Expanded Translation. Jude 1:6-7"And angels who did not carefully keep inviolate
their original position of pre-eminent dignity but abandoned once for all their own private dwelling place, with view to the judgement of the great day, in everlasting bonds under darkness He has placed under careful guard. Just as Sodom and Gomorrha and the cites about them, in like manner to these [the angels of verse 6], having given themselves over with a complete abandon to fornication, and having gone after a different kind of flesh [from their own, cohabiting with beings of a different nature], are being set forth as an exhibit, undergoing the punishment of everlasting fire."

Wuest makes it known that the angels were judged because they left "their original position of pre-eminent dignity but abandoned once for all their own private dwelling place," then he translates it to say that those angels are " in everlasting bonds under darkness He has placed under careful guard." They are under careful guard, how did they escape from these eternal bonds of darkness to come to earth to marry women? Notice he contradicts the Scriptures as well, he bring up [from their own, cohabiting with beings of a different nature] this is his input not from the Greek, but the Scriptures are very plane that the sons of God married the women so no fornication there, which is what Sodom and Gormorrha and the surrounding cities did and were judged for it.

W.E.T. II Peter 2:4-5 "For, in view of the fact that God did not spare angels who sinned, but having thrust them down into Tartarus, committed them to pits of nether-world gloom, being reserved for judgement, and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah as the eight person [to be preserved], a proclaimer of righteousness, having let loose the deuce upon the world of those who were destitute of reverential awe towards God, and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha having reduced to ashes, He condemned them to destruction, having constituted them a permanent example to the ungodly of things about to come;"

Wuest does not interject the the idea of Genesis here because it show that the angels were thrust down into
Tartarus and with his translating like he did in Jude. They are "under careful guard" the reason Wuest uses "under careful guard" is because tetērēken is in the prefect tense, in other words there is no escape He "committed them to pits of nether-world gloom," So the angels that left "their original position of pre-eminent dignity" were thrust into Tartarus and reserved in eternal chains of darkness, How did they escape Tartarus while being under specially perfect guard? They did not, the verses in II Peter could of proved the point more because of the actual mention of the Genesis flood/judgement but, he did not do it because of the fact that they were thrust into Tartarus, there was no wasted time they sinned God judged then thrusting them into Tartarus and placing them in eternal chains of glooming darkness, under an inescapable guard. The Scripture says what their sin was "did not carefully keep inviolate their original position of pre-eminent dignity but abandoned once for all their own private dwelling place" that is/was their sin reeling against God, no sex with women.

He interjects the Genesis idea of fallen angels where there is no mention of the Genesis judgement, but where there is a mention of the judgement he does not interject it because the angels were immediately thrust into Tartarus and as he translated in Jude "under careful guard" You would think he would of tried to make his case here in II Peter not Jude where there is not mention of the deluge. But the thrusting into tartarus an immediate action, he knew that it could not fit so he did not try.