Not By Works
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2nd John v 7- for many deceivers have gone into the world, those who do not acknowledge or confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. this ( person) is a deceiver and the antichrist.
just thought I would add the part of verse 7 you purposely left out. you know, the part that changes the meaning of the little commentary you made.
stop being purposely deceitful peter. I have defended you in the past when others have called you evil. when you are wickedly deceitful like this, leaving out a part of a verse that does not fit your agenda, I wonder if others might be correct......
just thought I would add the part of verse 7 you purposely left out. you know, the part that changes the meaning of the little commentary you made.
stop being purposely deceitful peter. I have defended you in the past when others have called you evil. when you are wickedly deceitful like this, leaving out a part of a verse that does not fit your agenda, I wonder if others might be correct......
Some people have exchanged the life of Christ for a behavior modification program and thus nullify the very grace of God needed to walk in this world what the Lord has already done at the cross and resurrection.
Well said.
This is my biggest beef and concern.
I call it sin management.
I have said it before and will always say it.
This focus detracts from Jesus and focuses on oneself. It weighs down with a heavy burden of guilt or brings self righteousness.
Either way it further detracts us from being what we already are which is children of God.
Get the focus wrong we are likely to walk around as miserable people and judgmental and the world will see it. We are less likely to walk in love towards God and our brothers and sisters and those around us.
Resting in Jesus brings fruit based on our love
for him and his love for and in us.
By this the world we see are his disciples.
And before anyone goes at me I am not advocating it's ok to sin regardless and use grace an excuse to do so. God forbid we be like that.
For me get the focus right and we will be conformed to the image of Jesus. Sin will start to decrease and fruit increase of which the greatest is LOVE.
Well said.
This is my biggest beef and concern.
I call it sin management.
I have said it before and will always say it.
This focus detracts from Jesus and focuses on oneself. It weighs down with a heavy burden of guilt or brings self righteousness.
Either way it further detracts us from being what we already are which is children of God.
Get the focus wrong we are likely to walk around as miserable people and judgmental and the world will see it. We are less likely to walk in love towards God and our brothers and sisters and those around us.
Resting in Jesus brings fruit based on our love
for him and his love for and in us.
By this the world we see are his disciples.
And before anyone goes at me I am not advocating it's ok to sin regardless and use grace an excuse to do so. God forbid we be like that.
For me get the focus right and we will be conformed to the image of Jesus. Sin will start to decrease and fruit increase of which the greatest is LOVE.
Amen, Hallelujah, Glory to the living God, great is my reward in heaven.If I was earning reward, you are just giving it to me, in heaps, a great mountain.
It is utterly absurd to say a deceiver who takes the commands of Christ and nullifies them
is not doing exactly what John is describing in John 3:7
I wonder at how blind, deaf and dumb people are to the word of God. But then it is no wonder
the same voices come in opposition to me, claiming such terrible things I am holding to and saying.
I am just repeating what John is saying in scripture, word for word.
Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God
3 John 1:11
this is love, that we walk according to his commandments
2 John 1:6
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
John 13:34-35
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matt 5:11-12
Now the problem is what evil have I done? Quoted scripture in context and with it true
meaning.
And what am I upholding?
Loving your enemies.
Walking with an open heart, seeing need and meeting it.
Speaking the truth in love.
Praying in private.
Not being lustful, greedy, arrogant, boastful, proud, covertous, anything evil.
Walking in righteousness and truth.
Now it these things from the bottom of my heart I thank you for helping me walk
this road. Without opposition, I would just get bored and probably give up.
I am a weak man, and easily distracted, and like to pursue things to their logical end.
It does mean I ask questions others fear to ask, and wonder at issues that could be
self defeating. We each are answerable to the King, but you all know this.
Sometimes it is fed back to me as if I do not stand before the Lord daily bringing my
heart and soul to this place, knowing how flawed and incapable I am. So what I bring
is His word, simply without additions, and ask you to look at it in the light of the Spirit,
and find the Lord. Amen.
[video=youtube;PnWKehsOXu8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnWKehsOXu8[/video]
Well said...the works-based/ works-righteousness belief system relies on "sin management" instead of the life and grace of Christ is us. This is why the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection is a major stumbling block to them.
This is why they must create and maintain their own righteousness and this is one of the favorite verses for them - Ezekiel 33:13.
They are relying on "their own righteousness" and not the righteousness of God in Christ given to us as a "gift" Rom. 5:17
Ezekiel 33:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
This is why they must create and maintain their own righteousness and this is one of the favorite verses for them - Ezekiel 33:13.
They are relying on "their own righteousness" and not the righteousness of God in Christ given to us as a "gift" Rom. 5:17
Ezekiel 33:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Hi Bill, I agree with you on the problem of continual failure and condemnation.
But let us get real about what failure, condemnation and guilt you are talking about.
If we are talking about a real addiction and dominant behaviour this does destroy our faith.
Most fellowships now emphasis the love and acceptance we have in Christ as His children.
But equally you cannot ignore rebellion and sin working in ones heart.
I would describe this as going beyond standing at the door and hoping to enter in, to actually
realising the spiritual reality in your heart and knowing it for real. Until this happens is one truly
saved? Putting the gospel as a walk of fellowship with the Lord, these issues will arise, and have
to be overcome to enter into the Kingdom.
But in the version of faith when you have everything at the start, and are totally secure no matter
the walk, or how far you stray, then this point is totally lost, and the enemy will rejoice at it being so.
Now as the Kingdom is all about the walk, and nothing else, missing these issues is a salvation issue.
So when Peter, Jesus's rock, stumbled, Jesus prayed for him that he might not lose his faith.
Do you understand how significant this point is? The enemy will try and diminish its meaning, but it is
like a light. Jesus said to the Father, he kept all those given to Him, protecting them, but this only has
meaning because literally they could be lost if He had not acted.
So when I stand here day after day testifying to my Kings word, it is because I am contending for the
salvation of millions, and those who trust in Christs words. Authority is clear, it comes from God through
His word. Those who detract from this are deceivers and of the anti-Christ.
But let us get real about what failure, condemnation and guilt you are talking about.
If we are talking about a real addiction and dominant behaviour this does destroy our faith.
Most fellowships now emphasis the love and acceptance we have in Christ as His children.
But equally you cannot ignore rebellion and sin working in ones heart.
I would describe this as going beyond standing at the door and hoping to enter in, to actually
realising the spiritual reality in your heart and knowing it for real. Until this happens is one truly
saved? Putting the gospel as a walk of fellowship with the Lord, these issues will arise, and have
to be overcome to enter into the Kingdom.
But in the version of faith when you have everything at the start, and are totally secure no matter
the walk, or how far you stray, then this point is totally lost, and the enemy will rejoice at it being so.
Now as the Kingdom is all about the walk, and nothing else, missing these issues is a salvation issue.
So when Peter, Jesus's rock, stumbled, Jesus prayed for him that he might not lose his faith.
Do you understand how significant this point is? The enemy will try and diminish its meaning, but it is
like a light. Jesus said to the Father, he kept all those given to Him, protecting them, but this only has
meaning because literally they could be lost if He had not acted.
So when I stand here day after day testifying to my Kings word, it is because I am contending for the
salvation of millions, and those who trust in Christs words. Authority is clear, it comes from God through
His word. Those who detract from this are deceivers and of the anti-Christ.
E
Amen, it is a different outlook from striving to serve others doing what the Lord encourages and seeking after the spirit, to serve others in love, but being humble enough to know you still need to grow and thus are still not to the point you do not sin,
and going ring around preaching how holy you are, and telling the world to follow you. And deny any sin you may be convicted of.
and going ring around preaching how holy you are, and telling the world to follow you. And deny any sin you may be convicted of.
The funny thing about preachers against righteousness, is their answer is to find sin
with which to tear down believers.
So if the met Jesus would they behave any differently? No.
Because the problem is in their hearts and unresolved sin which they dare not face.
This is the same as the sinful world, which is why their energy is spent against believers
and not the world.
But truly those who have made friends with the world are no longer part of the body of Christ.
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
The elect know of what I speak because it is embedded in their hearts.
So my brothers and sisters take heart, because the Lord is with you, and nothing the enemy
can ever do can bring your down, Amen.
with which to tear down believers.
So if the met Jesus would they behave any differently? No.
Because the problem is in their hearts and unresolved sin which they dare not face.
This is the same as the sinful world, which is why their energy is spent against believers
and not the world.
But truly those who have made friends with the world are no longer part of the body of Christ.
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
The elect know of what I speak because it is embedded in their hearts.
So my brothers and sisters take heart, because the Lord is with you, and nothing the enemy
can ever do can bring your down, Amen.
Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )
This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.
He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
Satan wants us to rely on "our own" righteousness and we end up rejecting the righteousness of God in Christ. That is the gospel message. In the gospel - the righteousness of God is revealed. Rom. 1:16-17
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )
This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.
He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
Satan wants us to rely on "our own" righteousness and we end up rejecting the righteousness of God in Christ. That is the gospel message. In the gospel - the righteousness of God is revealed. Rom. 1:16-17
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
E
no one is preaching against righteousness. Again a strawman from people who refuse to see what others are saying.
it us sad they will refuse to see their own sin, yet try to judge others, just shows their true heart. It is self righteous, as MMD said, they refuse to submit to Gods righteous standard, and promote their own
it us sad they will refuse to see their own sin, yet try to judge others, just shows their true heart. It is self righteous, as MMD said, they refuse to submit to Gods righteous standard, and promote their own
Oh my goodness, did you copy and paste this same post (with some bolding modifications) from the "Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)" thread? - http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...g-away-faith-its-possible-43.html#post3116279 Be sure to read my rebuttal in post #847 and don't let FBI agent Stephen63 see that copied the same post on another thread. He will be out to incriminate you.
no, the " elect " know that taking verses out of context, and purposely leaving out parts of verses , as you did above, to push an agenda, is wicked false teaching.
those of us that care enough about what we believe to want to handle the Word of God with extreme care see right through this deceitfulness. I have one agenda. Biblical truth.
those of us that care enough about what we believe to want to handle the Word of God with extreme care see right through this deceitfulness. I have one agenda. Biblical truth.
Isaiah 65:5-6
Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
James 3:13-18
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Isaiah 32:17
And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
James 3:13-18
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Isaiah 32:17
And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
E
Amen, If we interpret the scripture with scripture. We will not have to remove parts of a passage, or take verses out of context. The thought and interpretation will freely flow with the passage,
If, however, we interpret the word with our belief system, We will be forced to remove or ignore parts of the passage in order to make the passage believeable and to force it to agree with us,, This is one of the symptoms of this disease of interpreting scripture according to our belief system, and not interpret scripture with scripture (force my belief system to align with the word)
That is one of the things my friend used to get me to start repenting and remove my self from religion and Find out Who god really is.
If, however, we interpret the word with our belief system, We will be forced to remove or ignore parts of the passage in order to make the passage believeable and to force it to agree with us,, This is one of the symptoms of this disease of interpreting scripture according to our belief system, and not interpret scripture with scripture (force my belief system to align with the word)
That is one of the things my friend used to get me to start repenting and remove my self from religion and Find out Who god really is.