Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues

[notuptome]

human logic cannot replace supernatural work of the Holy Spirit. One may not agree with what is in the Bible because it doesn't meet their logic however, to call it fallacy when it is written in the the word of God in 1 Cor chapter 12,13, 14 , is opinionated.

Still waiting for those to show me where the gifts are done away with.

1Cor 13:8 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The perfect is the completion of the bible. The complete revelation of God for man. The OT was in part a shadow of things to come and those who looked therein saw as it were through a glass darkly but with the completion of the NT we see as face to face. Jesus tore the vale in two so we can enter into the very presence of God by the righteousness imputed to us through Christ.

Prophecy as in new revelation ended with the completion of the bible. Knowledge as a gift for fishermen to withstand highly educated Pharisees ended. Tongues as an evidence to Jews that Gentiles had the Holy Spirit also ended. Revelation states that we are not to add to or take away from the complete (perfect) word of God the bible.

This is not new information as you have heard it many times.

Acts 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 ¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

The human will can be very difficult to manage at times. Men often react in very negative ways when presented with reason especially biblical reason that does not agree with their predetermined conclusions. They find fault and insult where there in none.

We both are opinionated. Unity does not require uniformity. Our opinions differ but it is the same Christ who is our Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

1Cor 13:8 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The perfect is the completion of the bible. The complete revelation of God for man. The OT was in part a shadow of things to come and those who looked therein saw as it were through a glass darkly but with the completion of the NT we see as face to face. Jesus tore the vale in two so we can enter into the very presence of God by the righteousness imputed to us through Christ.

Prophecy as in new revelation ended with the completion of the bible. Knowledge as a gift for fishermen to withstand highly educated Pharisees ended. Tongues as an evidence to Jews that Gentiles had the Holy Spirit also ended. Revelation states that we are not to add to or take away from the complete (perfect) word of God the bible.

This is not new information as you have heard it many times.

Acts 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 ¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

The human will can be very difficult to manage at times. Men often react in very negative ways when presented with reason especially biblical reason that does not agree with their predetermined conclusions. They find fault and insult where there in none.

We both are opinionated. Unity does not require uniformity. Our opinions differ but it is the same Christ who is our Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The perfect is the completion of the bible. The complete revelation of God for man. The OT was in part a shadow of things to come and those who looked therein saw as it were through a glass darkly but with the completion of the NT we see as face to face. Jesus tore the vale in two so we can enter into the very presence of God by the righteousness imputed to us through Christ."




This is your opinion to what you think 1 cor 13: 8-12 this is not in context to the bible .
you always stop at verse 12 and not read chapter 14
the face to face is which is speaking about is the presence of Christ.

Acts 7:51 I find interesting you use this verse when it has nothing to do with 1cor 12, 13, 14

You assume the bible is what verse 12 in 1 cor 13 is speaking about yet if you would read further in chapter 14 it is very clear it is not.
The perfection is not the completion of the bible in fact you have argued certain translations have errors . Tell me how that is possible? 1cor 12, 13, 14 no where say when the bible is completed the gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away with.

you have suggested that but have not shown in scripture.

 

[notuptome]

The perfect is the completion of the bible. The complete revelation of God for man. The OT was in part a shadow of things to come and those who looked therein saw as it were through a glass darkly but with the completion of the NT we see as face to face. Jesus tore the vale in two so we can enter into the very presence of God by the righteousness imputed to us through Christ."




This is your opinion to what you think 1 cor 13: 8-12 this is not in context to the bible .
you always stop at verse 12 and not read chapter 14
the face to face is which is speaking about is the presence of Christ.

Acts 7:51 I find interesting you use this verse when it has nothing to do with 1cor 12, 13, 14

You assume the bible is what verse 12 in 1 cor 13 is speaking about yet if you would read further in chapter 14 it is very clear it is not.
The perfection is not the completion of the bible in fact you have argued certain translations have errors . Tell me how that is possible? 1cor 12, 13, 14 no where say when the bible is completed the gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away with.

you have suggested that but have not shown in scripture.

Sir we have the presence of Christ right now. By faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit we have the presence of Christ it is not future but a present and eternal possession.

You claim I have not presented scripture to support my position. I submit that you have rejected scripture to maintain your position. This is why the behavior of the Pharisees in Acts 7 is worth noting.

Your reading of 1 Cor 14 is way off base. 1 Cor 12, 13 and 14 is not establishing a desired condition in the church but a corrective measure because the church at Corinth was in a mess.

This subject always creates a divide. There is no edification where there is division. We have unity in Christ but we are not uniform on the matter of tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Sir we have the presence of Christ right now. By faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit we have the presence of Christ it is not future but a present and eternal possession.

You claim I have not presented scripture to support my position. I submit that you have rejected scripture to maintain your position. This is why the behavior of the Pharisees in Acts 7 is worth noting.

Your reading of 1 Cor 14 is way off base. 1 Cor 12, 13 and 14 is not establishing a desired condition in the church but a corrective measure because the church at Corinth was in a mess.

This subject always creates a divide. There is no edification where there is division. We have unity in Christ but we are not uniform on the matter of tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Sir

never said you did, now as I have said before yes if you are saved; yes you have the Spirit of Christ in you now . That is a straw-man you bring up as you continue to do.

please quote me correctly I said you have not provided any scripture to show the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today or they are done away with with the completion of the bible as you have stated.

NOW the Behavior in acts 7, there we see Stephens defense. which is funny you did not see : in ACTS 6 THIS ABOUT HIM

6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

6:8" And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people."

Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

in ACTS 7

THEY KILLED him
you quoted Acts 7:51-52
to suggest it was a testament against me . it has been my experience those who use scriptures like that in a discussion is trying to belittle but just not able to do it directly. it's type of control button some use when they are upset.

The subject cause no divide the edification you speak of is one has to agree with you. No we do not. Your issue is with tongues but you have no issue with the other remaining gifts ? Tongues is not that important nor is it any less then the other gifts recorded in 1cor 12,13,14 chapters.

 

[preacher4truth]

Sir we have the presence of Christ right now. By faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit we have the presence of Christ it is not future but a present and eternal possession.

You claim I have not presented scripture to support my position. I submit that you have rejected scripture to maintain your position. This is why the behavior of the Pharisees in Acts 7 is worth noting.

Your reading of 1 Cor 14 is way off base. 1 Cor 12, 13 and 14 is not establishing a desired condition in the church but a corrective measure because the church at Corinth was in a mess.

This subject always creates a divide. There is no edification where there is division. We have unity in Christ but we are not uniform on the matter of tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You nailed one finally. Good job.

 

[notuptome]

Sir

never said you did not as I have said before yes if you are saved yes you have the Spirit of Christ in you now . That is a straw-man you bring up as you continue to do.

please quote me correctly I said you have not provided any scripture to show the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today or they are done away with with the completion of the bible as you have stated.

NO the Behavior acts & was Stephens defense which is funny you did not see : in ACTS 6 THIS ABOUT HIM

6:6Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

6:8" And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people."

Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

in ACTS 7

THEY KILLED him
you quoted Acts 7:51-52
to suggest it was a testament against me . it has been my experience those who use scriptures like that in a discussion is trying to belittle but just not able to do it directly. it's type of control button some use when they are upset.

The subject cause no divide the edification you speak of is one has to agree with you. No we do not. Your issue is with tongues but you have no issue with the other remaining gifts ? Tongues is not that important nor is it any less then the other gifts recorded in 1cor 12,13,14 chapters.

Historically and in context Stephen was in the apostolic church and was establishing the authority of the word of God through the miracles and signs to Jewish people. The same ones that stoned him.

I'm not against you but unity is achieved through mutual understanding of the word of God.

God did not give us His word so that we could accuse one another with it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Historically and in context Stephen was in the apostolic church and was establishing the authority of the word of God through the miracles and signs to Jewish people. The same ones that stoned him.

I'm not against you but unity is achieved through mutual understanding of the word of God.

God did not give us His word so that we could accuse one another with it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

really ? was Stephen Greek speaking a Jew was he not?

you say unity is achieved through mutual understanding really ? but if one does not agree they are fallacy in their understanding ? But to be far notuptome can you say that you have been understanding of this topic? and gracious to other who do not agree with you? I'm sure there are those who on the other side too I as I know there are . let talk about you and I. have a abused my authority with you? yes or no? have I been respectful but pithy in my comments ? Please show me where your scriptural ref of Acts 7:51-52 proves the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today? and if they do not prove to me you did not use them to "could accuse one another with it. " and why would I be wrong in thinking that?

 

[RickyZ]

CS1, don't waste your time

 

[hornetguy]

really ? was Stephen Greek speaking a Jew was he not?

you say unity is achieved through mutual understanding really ? but if one does not agree they are fallacy in their understanding ? But to be far notuptome can you say that you have been understanding of this topic? and gracious to other who do not agree with you? I'm sure there are those who on the other side too I as I know there are . let talk about you and I. have a abused my authority with you? yes or no? have I been respectful but pithy in my comments ? Please show me where your scriptural ref of Acts 7:51-52 proves the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today? and if they do not prove to me you did not use them to "could accuse one another with it. " and why would I be wrong in thinking that?

To be fair, he DID give you scripture that states that, in post 161. He gave the scripture, and his understanding of it. It seemed pretty well thought out, to me.

It doesn't mean you have to agree with his understanding, but to keep pounding on him to "show me the scripture" after he has already done so, begins to sound a little belligerent....

 

[notuptome]

really ? was Stephen Greek speaking a Jew was he not?

you say unity is achieved through mutual understanding really ? but if one does not agree they are fallacy in their understanding ? But to be far notuptome can you say that you have been understanding of this topic? and gracious to other who do not agree with you? I'm sure there are those who on the other side too I as I know there are . let talk about you and I. have a abused my authority with you? yes or no? have I been respectful but pithy in my comments ? Please show me where your scriptural ref of Acts 7:51-52 proves the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today? and if they do not prove to me you did not use them to "could accuse one another with it. " and why would I be wrong in thinking that?

I have not accused you of being unfair. I have moderated my responses to the subject of tongues considerably in my time here. I have defended you as one who is fair and does not abuse his authority.

The passage in Acts 7 should not offend. It is merely an account of how some will not receive the word of God. It applies to me as readily as any other believer.

On the subject of tongues there is no mutual understanding because there is no constructive discourse through the scriptures. I am more than willing to discuss the scriptures on the subject. I do not know how it can be done given the highly emotional nature of the subject and the high probability of hurt feelings.

I would appreciate less pithy and more substantial responses. I'm not offended but you can come across as evasive when you need to come across as having a more persuasive answer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

Historically and in context Stephen was in the apostolic church and was establishing the authority of the word of God through the miracles and signs to Jewish people. The same ones that stoned him.

In the Bible, we see that signs and wonders confirmed the message and those who preached it. But it wasn't a once-for-all thing. It is presented as an ongoing thing in Acts. Signs, wonders, and miracles were done among the Jews in Jerusalem, but were also done in other places like Joppa.

Peter did not say to those in Joppa, "The word of God has already been confirmed in Jerusalem by the miracles other apostles and I did there. So my telling you about those miracles, or your reading about them, performs the exact same function as if I were to declare Aeneaus healed of being cripped right now. So I will not do that, because the word was already confirmed in Jerusalem." Even though the word of God had been confirmed in Jerusalem, where many of those in Joppa had not seen it, Peter still performed miracles in Joppa. Paul and Barnabas did signs and wonders among the Gentiles and told about them in Acts 15. That didn't keep Paul from doing more signs among the Gentiles later.

I Corinthians 12 shows that the Spirit gives certain individuals with the working of miracles. There is no Biblical reason to believe that this passage is not true today as it was back then.

 

[CS1]

I have not accused you of being unfair. I have moderated my responses to the subject of tongues considerably in my time here. I have defended you as one who is fair and does not abuse his authority.

The passage in Acts 7 should not offend. It is merely an account of how some will not receive the word of God. It applies to me as readily as any other believer.

On the subject of tongues there is no mutual understanding because there is no constructive discourse through the scriptures. I am more than willing to discuss the scriptures on the subject. I do not know how it can be done given the highly emotional nature of the subject and the high probability of hurt feelings.

I would appreciate less pithy and more substantial responses. I'm not offended but you can come across as evasive when you need to come across as having a more persuasive answer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No, I do not think I need to be more persuasive in the biblical context provided in 1Cor chapter 12,13, and 14. Also throughout the book of Acts. The substance is well seen and you do not agree . You suggest that one has not given you enough to persuasive you. I am not trying to do that just show the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for to day and there is no language in the New Testament that says " the gifts of the Holy Spirit have creased, when the bible was completed". No where you assume only Two verses in 1 cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Verse 10 [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] That is not the context because the message continues into chapter 14 .[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] The substantial and contextual meaning of the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit " found in all three chapters not just two verses you have suggested . [/FONT]

 

[CS1]

To be fair, he DID give you scripture that states that, in post 161. He gave the scripture, and his understanding of it. It seemed pretty well thought out, to me.

It doesn't mean you have to agree with his understanding, but to keep pounding on him to "show me the scripture" after he has already done so, begins to sound a little belligerent....

no he did not sir.
the full context of the " gifts of the Holy Spirit " start in 1cor 12 and are completed in at the end of chapter 14. only two verses in 1 cor 13 he uses to suggest the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not needed because the bible has been completed. verse 8 and 10 of chapter 13. Now he maybe correct if he could prove the perfect which was to come is the bible and the point argued did not have to address chapter 14.

which after verse 1 chaper 13 : 1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,(Love) I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


Chapter 14 :1 " Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts,[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] but rather that ye may prophesy." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] as you continue on as one should we see , the instruction and the effectiveness of the gifts when done properly . The whole chapter is on how to use the gifts. If the gifts are not to be anymore then why speak on it in chapter 14? Why give instruction on how to use them and provide the blessing of the one using and hearing?

The answer is clear the gifts of the Holy Spirit have not stopped and God had Paul correct those who were unlearned and immature in the operation of ALL the gifts. Hornetguy please explain what is a little belligerent ?

thank you [/FONT]

 

[CS1]

CS1, don't waste your time

Thank you RickyZ

but some many others can read the full context of 1cor 12,13,14 Chapters and follow along the moving of the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts and see how the gifts are for to day and needed. Strawman those who build up to try and attack and take out of context full chapters of the contextual meaning with only two verses is also most funny.

 

[notuptome]

No, I do not think I need to be more persuasive in the biblical context provided in 1Cor chapter 12,13, and 14. Also throughout the book of Acts. The substance is well seen and you do not agree . You suggest that one has not given you enough to persuasive you. I am not trying to do that just show the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for to day and there is no language in the New Testament that says " the gifts of the Holy Spirit have creased, when the bible was completed". No where you assume only Two verses in 1 cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Verse 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
That is not the context because the message continues into chapter 14 .

The substantial and contextual meaning of the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit " found in all three chapters not just two verses you have suggested .

I have shown from the scriptures that from the beginning tongues are not a blessing but a warning and a judgment from God. This is the unknown tongues which again from what I am able to determine are the tongues of choice in the modern church.

To appreciate the message that continues in chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians we need to agree on just what tongues are cited in the chapter. My concept of biblical tongues may not be consistent with your understanding and that will create possible misunderstandings.

I do appreciate that you endeavor to address this subject in an orderly fashion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

I have shown from the scriptures that from the beginning tongues are not a blessing but a warning and a judgment from God. This is the unknown tongues which again from what I am able to determine are the tongues of choice in the modern church.

To appreciate the message that continues in chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians we need to agree on just what tongues are cited in the chapter. My concept of biblical tongues may not be consistent with your understanding and that will create possible misunderstandings.

I do appreciate that you endeavor to address this subject in an orderly fashion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I think you just filibustered. Chapters 12, 13, 14 1 Corinthians uses the word tongues more than 18 times. the Context of tongues in chapter 12,13,14 of 1cor are not told to be a warning. You cannot even say that about Acts 2 where Peter expound in context to that event. Paul is correcting what is the CHURCH in that day. Modern is a secular term used to show how much man has moved from the normal church happenings as Paul addressed and corrected. proper application from the authorial intent as the Context is seen as to be applied today. The understanding of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not mine but the context of the chapters provided. you have suggested those who see it this way have a fallacy . There is not misunderstanding. You said we need to agree on what is cited about tongues in Chapter 14. I disagree you have to take the full context of all chapters on the topic . Not just two verses

 

[RickyZ]

I have shown from the scriptures that from the beginning tongues are not a blessing but a warning and a judgment from God.
Roger

Ya know, I've still got that list. Just added this one to it. Thanks

 

[jb]

CS1, don't waste your time

Ditto!

Some Christians (including Roger) are unteachable when it comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, unscriptural man made traditions and unbelief have totally imprisioned their mind and spirit! Matt 15v1-20, Rom 1v28, 1Cor 12v7-11, 1Peter 1v18

 

[miknik5]

-
According to Acts 2:4-11, the gift of tongues is supposed to enable the
giftees to be heard in a variety of honest to gosh, real-life languages.

/

So then shouldnt the giftees be outside the doors of the church preaching?

 

[miknik5]

-
● 1Cor 14:39 . .Do not forbid speaking in tongues.

That rule applies only to people who actually have the gift of tongues
because according to Rom 12:4, 1Cor 12:10-11, 1Cor 12:29-30, and 1Cor
14:5 not everyone does.

/

That wasn't the only thing said regarding tongues