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Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?
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I agree that this predestination vs. free will thing is not in any way preaching Christ and Him crucified. It's just a ploy from the enemy to cause strife and division.
The sad thing about that is that all that type of behavior goes totally against what Jesus taught.
We know God is no respecter of persons, but some people seems to think he has some kind of double standard for people...
Yep very true!
Thankfully some one met my Dad and showed him the truth and after he knew the truth, it set him free and he pulled us out of reformed Baptist circles. Both Dad and Mom spent the next several years counseling people out of that stuff.
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BeyondET
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Indeed Grace is a gift of God, Grace is not by ourselves manifested but is from God.
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BeyondET
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Come back predestinaters don't fall for the scam.
[video=youtube;Ib_Ak9lF8oU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib_Ak9lF8oU[/video]
[video=youtube;Ib_Ak9lF8oU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib_Ak9lF8oU[/video]
I was under the impression that we are all called to the cross of Christ...
I cannot imagine living a life where one does not wonder about the meaning and purpose of it, and how we got here, and what it was all for... this translates into the search for truth, and since Jesus Christ is the embodiment of Truth and the reason and purpose for all that is, if one sincerely seeks answers to these age old questions, then God will reveal Himself to that person; how He does that may look quite different from one person to the next... but always the love of God and the cross of Christ will figure predominately, for it is by faith in the shedding of His righteous blood that we have been saved.
I cannot imagine living a life where one does not wonder about the meaning and purpose of it, and how we got here, and what it was all for... this translates into the search for truth, and since Jesus Christ is the embodiment of Truth and the reason and purpose for all that is, if one sincerely seeks answers to these age old questions, then God will reveal Himself to that person; how He does that may look quite different from one person to the next... but always the love of God and the cross of Christ will figure predominately, for it is by faith in the shedding of His righteous blood that we have been saved.
Hello ForthAngel, good morning and God bless you! Could you please clarify whether you mean this in relation to choosing God? Or is it simply a general statement that people can do good apart from being born again of the Spirit of God? Thank you
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I dunno if Pelagius taught that we could choose God with or without divine intervention or not, but that would be the assumption. He did deny sin nature and claimed man was basically born neutral. No bondage to sin.
First of all, as I've made clear a hundred times if I've done it once, is to clarify that I don't really identify as a Calvinist. That is what I'm called by others, as are many of us here. Being a Calvinist also doesn't make someone a disciple of Calvin. Also, could you not understand my post or did you even read it? I clarified my position and the position of most reformed believers. As has been said many, many times already, most reformed believers are reformed because they have read their bibles and come to the realization of certain biblical truths. Most have no clue what Calvin taught beyond TULIP. Some may not even know what TULIP is but are reformed in their beliefs.
Again, in essence, yes, we are all predestined one way or another because all things were predetermined before creation. This is true whether you are on the Arminian or Calvinist side unless you want to deny God's omniscience and throw in your lot with open theists. None were chosen to hell, but God created knowing he would be rejected. God actively changes the nature of some to bring about salvation by his grace while the others are left to their own desires and condemned. God does not cause them to not choose him which is the insinuation by those who say God "elected" some to hell. God only elected to salvation, not hell.
However, God DOES actively harden people who have already rejected him. Pharaoh for example. The reprobates of 2 Thes. 2 as well. Those he gives over to their own desires in Romans 1. There is biblical precedence to support that idea, however, God did not cause these people to reject him nor does he force people to sin, although in his divine sovereignty he does use their rejection and sin to his advantage to accomplish his plans according to his own purpose and will. Joseph being sold into slavery by his brothers, the Assyrian King, and the crucifixion are all examples of man's evil being used by God in a way predetermined by himself for good.
My Dad taught all the men in the congregation and those aspiring to be baptist reformed evangelists.
Our Sunday school teachers taught us straight up that God sends some people to hell and not others, it is all his choice.
Which is not what Arminian taught.
Arminius affirmed total depravity but believed that only prevenient grace allowed people to choose salvation:
Concerning grace and free will, this is what I teach according to the Scriptures and orthodox consent:
Free will is unable to begin or to perfect any true and spiritual good, without grace.... This grace [prævenit] goes before, accompanies, and follows; it excites, assists, operates that we will, and co operates lest we will in vain.[SUP][9]
[/SUP]
Jacobus Arminius, The Works of James Arminius, D.D., Formerly Professor of Divinity in the University of Leyden (Auburn, NY: Derby and Miller, 1853), vol. 2:472.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevenient_grace
Free will is unable to begin or to perfect any true and spiritual good, without grace.... This grace [prævenit] goes before, accompanies, and follows; it excites, assists, operates that we will, and co operates lest we will in vain.[SUP][9]
[/SUP]
Jacobus Arminius, The Works of James Arminius, D.D., Formerly Professor of Divinity in the University of Leyden (Auburn, NY: Derby and Miller, 1853), vol. 2:472.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevenient_grace
The one thing I see in common with all Arminians/syngergists is that they love philosophy but none of it has a strong foundation in scripture. Single verses, emotional knee-jerk responses, but not a lot of truth or an ability to defend their position coherently from scripture.
I do not believe this one bit, but yet and your other 3 ring circus brothers love to paint everyone with this brush, if they don't believe as you do.
Why is that?
Oh wait, yeah you are taught that.
Thank you. Hmmm, it is interesting to then consider this Pelagian viewpoint as something the RCC adopted in relation to Mary, for they claimed she was born without the stain of sin (the dogma of the immaculate conception) and also because of that she did not suffer the consequence of sin (death ). Both ex cathedra dogmas of the RCC revolve around that issue. But, back to us... I agree we are in need of the grace of God to be enabled to choose Him. The natural man does not accept the things of God for they are Spiritual, and spiritually discerned. I do believe we are asked to co-operate. God makes our acceptance of Him possible, but He does not force us to accept Him. Maybe I am wrong, but in my own process, being so stubbornly set against God, I did finally come to a place of surrender after having Him reveal Himself to me a few times in a number of different ways, over quite a period of time (fifteen years).
You walk with the Lord every day of your life? And will till the death?
Are you sure you will have enough of time to repent of everything you messed up before you die?