Son's of God Genesis 6:1-8

jaybird88 · Jun 2, 2017

its not outside context, Jude is referring to an event that happened where angels left their heavenly realm. Gen 6 is the only other place in the bible where this is mentioned. Jude also connects the story with Sodom, a Canaanite city and Canaan was full of nephilim, and where is the only other place nephilim are mentioned, Gen 6. its not that hard to see.

Magenta · Jun 2, 2017

jaybird88 said:

They are mentioned in Numbers 13:30-33. Elsewhere also, if you go by other names for giants. Try this page: https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/giants-in-the-old-testament/

Zmouth · Jun 2, 2017

jaybird88 said:

Gen 6:1-3
6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

So when men began to multiply upon the face of the earth, if the LORD said that man's life span in the flesh would only be 120 years, then from the beginning the life span of man has only been up to a 120 years. Of course Moses died at a 120 years but then again it is written in Deut 32:20, "And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith."

So a good way to test a principle is see if hold true today, if man's life span on earth was hundred of years then there should should be evidence today to support that long life span unless evolution has drastically altered the genetic design of man. However it is written that man life span had been changed from hundred of years of age to just 70 years. So if true then there should be no evidence of man living past 70 years of age since the time of that change, save but for a few false verifications.

Here is the link to the oldest living persons alive today and the oldest persons to live who age was verified.

Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_verified_oldest_people

valiant · Jun 2, 2017

RedeemedGift said:

they differ in that bene Elohim is only ever used of supernatural beings in the OT. e,g, Job 1 & 2. E

elohim is regularly used of such as you should well know.

In the rare instances where men are referred to as banim le YHWH 'Eelohecem (the sons of YHWH your God - Deut 14.1) it is a totally different phrase.

In the new testament the iuoi theou is used only of those who have become sons of God by adoption and are true believers,.

If you cannot see the distinction I feel sorry for you.

But the LXX translators knew the difference. They did not think of huioi theou in Gen 6.1-4 as being 'sons of God' in the NT sense. Large numbers of those 'sons of God' were wiped out in the Flood. Did God wipe out a whole generation of believers?

you've caught on at last. (and actually its bene Elohim). They refer to angels in the OT and to adopted sons of God in the NT.

So THEY saw bene Elohim as angeloi.? Just as I said.

Translators have their own funny ways, but the probability is that they were different translators. In the Pseudepigrapha all the Jewish literature of the time of the lxx saw Genesis 6.1-4 as angels.

garee · Jun 2, 2017

Whose story line is that?Well of course it includes the beginning of all things.(host of angels )as spirit messengers .Not formed the dust.(they have no dna) Six days he did all the work of creating

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:1

Host…. Strong’s lexicon) 06635 tsaba' {tsaw-baw'} or (fem.) ts@ba'ah {tseb-aw-aw'}
from 06633; TWOT - 1865a,1865b; n m
AV - host 393, war 41, army 29, battle 5, service 5, appointed time 3, warfare 2, soldiers 1, company 1, misc 5; 485
1) that which goes forth, army, war, warfare, host 1a) army, host 1a1) host (of organised army) 1a2) host (of angels) 1a3) of sun, moon, and stars 1a4) of whole creation 1b) war, warfare, service, go out to war 1c) service

garee · Jun 2, 2017

The word Legion, used twice, is used as God purposed to help us understand other portions of scripture in regard to spiritual matters (the unseen).,matters that have to do with workers of familiar disembodied spirits or what the Catholics call patron saints(3,000 and rising)

Samuel was dead asleep and is like all saints who have the Spirit of Christ. They are waiting for the wake up call, just as Lazarus was used in that parable to simulate the second and final resurrection. The Holy Spirit does not use words that have no effect. Twice he used the word legion to represent (many gods)

The saints that depart from here under the sun will never again have any part in any work under the Sun immediately we know it is a gospel of signs and lying wonders

God had complete cut off any kind of communication with Saul. Saul sought after signs and lying wonders..

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Saul had previously put away those kinds of workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land,. but not according the faith of Christ. It is why he desired to use a medium as another kind of authority (false gospel) this exposed his hardened heart.

God had cut Saul off from any communication. This shows his heart was not in the work of cutting off the Witches as human mediators for lying wonders as spirits called demons as they bring the information vision. Saul was not walking by the faith that comes from hearing God, as it is written, but sought after another avenue called necromancy. It became their own source of faith as a wonder.(lying)

He prayed to the witch, I pray you, divine a vision for me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. Not knowing any thing about Samuel she asked him his name

Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 1Sa 28:11

The woman saw legion (many gods)

1Samuel 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods (legion) ascending out of the earth

Still not enough information to comfort Saul …
1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

Above, the father of lies revealed the information (An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle to Saul as a vision it was just as Saul had hoped (had faith in the Witch).

God sent Saul a strong delusion by hardening his heart so that he would believe the lying wonder..
.

And the woman came unto Saul, and saw that he was sore troubled, and said unto him, Behold, thine handmaid hath obeyed thy voice, and I have put my life in my hand, and have hearkened unto thy words which thou spakest unto me.Now therefore, I pray thee, "hearken" thou also unto the voice of thine handmaid,(the voice of the father of lies) and let me set a morsel of bread before thee; and eat, that thou mayest have strength, when thou goest on thy way.But he refused, and said, I will not eat. But his servants, together with the woman, compelled him; and he "hearkened" unto their voice .(believed had faith) So he arose from the earth, and sat upon the bed.And the woman had a fat calf in the house; and she hasted, and killed it, and took flour, and kneaded it, and did bake unleavened bread thereof:And she brought it before Saul, and before his servants; and they did eat. Then they rose up, and went away that night. 1Sa 28:25

Where a persons heart is there you wil find his treasure. either Christ is our treasure, or its Hollywood

Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Denadii · Jun 2, 2017

valiant said:

they differ in that bene Elohim is only ever used of supernatural beings in the OT. e,g, Job 1 & 2. E

elohim is regularly used of such as you should well know.

In the rare instances where men are referred to as banim le YHWH 'Eelohecem (the sons of YHWH your God - Deut 14.1) it is a totally different phrase.

In the new testament the iuoi theou is used only of those who have become sons of God by adoption and are true believers,.

If you cannot see the distinction I feel sorry for you.

But the LXX translators knew the difference. They did not think of huioi theou in Gen 6.1-4 as being 'sons of God' in the NT sense. Large numbers of those 'sons of God' were wiped out in the Flood. Did God wipe out a whole generation of believers?

you've caught on at last. (and actually its bene Elohim). They refer to angels in the OT and to adopted sons of God in the NT.

So THEY saw bene Elohim as angeloi.? Just as I said.

Translators have their own funny ways, but the probability is that they were different translators. In the Pseudepigrapha all the Jewish literature of the time of the lxx saw Genesis 6.1-4 as angels.

Actually Greek is probably the most precise language on the planet..and Hebrew is the most faceted one.. Check it...Greek must have every letter precise and even those little marks like ' have meaning....The Hebrew Each letter has meaning Each word has multiple meanings etc Not at all ambiguous

Denadii · Jun 2, 2017

garee said:

Whose story line is that?Well of course it includes the beginning of all things.(host of angels )as spirit messengers .Not formed the dust.(they have no dna) Six days he did all the work of creating

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:1

Host…. Strong’s lexicon) 06635 tsaba' {tsaw-baw'} or (fem.) ts@ba'ah {tseb-aw-aw'}
from 06633; TWOT - 1865a,1865b; n m
AV - host 393, war 41, army 29, battle 5, service 5, appointed time 3, warfare 2, soldiers 1, company 1, misc 5; 485
1) that which goes forth, army, war, warfare, host 1a) army, host 1a1) host (of organised army) 1a2) host (of angels) 1a3) of sun, moon, and stars 1a4) of whole creation 1b) war, warfare, service, go out to war 1c) service

Maybe Johnny-B has red hair and is afraid he might be nephilim....LOL Well....Some people are afraid of that......

valiant · Jun 2, 2017

garee said:

But nothing to do with the story of Samuel's appearance.

.

The Bible says God raised up SAMUEL. Don't you think God could do that?

But the Bible SAYS it was Samuel.

The Bible says it was Samuel

But the Bible says it was Samuel.

But the Bible says He sent Samuel.

But the Bible says it was Samuel who appeared.

And the Bible says it was Samuel who came up

She thought she saw Elohim, but it was Samuel

she said that she saw Elohim, but the Bible makes clear it was Samuel

So it WAS Samuel.

No, God sent Samuel. Or don't you believe the Bible?

Denadii · Jun 2, 2017

valiant said:

But nothing to do with the story of Samuel's appearance.

.

The Bible says God raised up SAMUEL. Don't you think God could do that?

But the Bible SAYS it was Samuel.

The Bible says it was Samuel

But the Bible says it was Samuel.

But the Bible says He sent Samuel.

But the Bible says it was Samuel who appeared.

And the Bible says it was Samuel who came up

She thought she saw Elohim, but it was Samuel

she said that she saw Elohim, but the Bible makes clear it was Samuel

So it WAS Samuel.

No, God sent Samuel. Or don't you believe the Bible?

This is so disjointed that it's almost intelligible. What are you talking about? What are you trying to say?

valiant · Jun 2, 2017

Denadii said:

LOL that it WAS Samuel who was raised up by God, in 1 Sam 29.

Denadii · Jun 2, 2017

valiant said:

Oh!!!!!! Thank you. I got lost there....

LOL

garee · Jun 2, 2017

Denadii said:

It seems he is following after necromancy which is seeking to commune with the dead as disembodied spirits or workers with familiar spirits. Catholics call them which they worship patron saints

The word of God uses darash meaning "to seek" in both way in Isaiah 8. Its clear which one (seek) is of God and who is following the god of this world. We pray one manner our father in heaven not our sants who are dead asleep never to have any part under the sun again.

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?.To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:19

01875 darash {daw-rash'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 455; v
AV - seek 84, enquire 43, require 12, search 7, misc 18; 164
1) to resort to, seek, seek with care, enquire, require 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to resort to, frequent (a place), (tread a place) 1a2) to consult, enquire of, seek 1a2a) of God 1a2b) of heathen gods, necromancers 1a3) to seek deity in prayer and worship 1a3a) God 1a3b) heathen deities 1a4) to seek (with a demand), demand, require 1a5) to investigate, enquire 1a6) to ask for, require, demand 1a7) to practice, study, follow, seek with application 1a8) to seek with care, care for 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to allow oneself to be enquired of, consulted (only of God) 1b2) to be sought, be sought out 1b3) to be required (of blood)

Denadii · Jun 2, 2017

garee said:

It seems he is following after necromancy which is seeking to commune with the dead as disembodied spirits or workers with familiar spirits. Catholics call them which they worship patron saints

The word of God uses darash meaning "to seek" in both way in Isaiah 8. Its clear which one (seek) is of God and who is following the god of this world. We pray one manner our father in heaven not our sants who are dead asleep never to have any part under the sun again.

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?.To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:19

01875 darash {daw-rash'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 455; v
AV - seek 84, enquire 43, require 12, search 7, misc 18; 164
1) to resort to, seek, seek with care, enquire, require 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to resort to, frequent (a place), (tread a place) 1a2) to consult, enquire of, seek 1a2a) of God 1a2b) of heathen gods, necromancers 1a3) to seek deity in prayer and worship 1a3a) God 1a3b) heathen deities 1a4) to seek (with a demand), demand, require 1a5) to investigate, enquire 1a6) to ask for, require, demand 1a7) to practice, study, follow, seek with application 1a8) to seek with care, care for 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to allow oneself to be enquired of, consulted (only of God) 1b2) to be sought, be sought out 1b3) to be required (of blood)

Naw...He's just a man of strong opinion.....Wrong but strong. LOL and a beloved brother

Johnny_B · Jun 3, 2017

jaybird88 said:

You do not know what context means, that's why you never followed the context of the story. One other thing the angels in Jude were judged for leaving their first abode and for no other reason. I would say read the context, but you do not know what that is. Seriously read this it will help you to understand the Bible better.

https://studyingtheword.wordpress.com/?s=context&searchbutton=go%21

Johnny_B · Jun 3, 2017

Denadii said:

We have to have fun too, it can't all be serious.

Johnny_B · Jun 3, 2017

RedeemedGift said:

The first clue is they will not deal with the context, they are always going outside the context and outside the Bible. I think it makes them feel as though they have some special information. But what I've found interesting is there are about 5 guys that believe the fallen angels theory and they will go non stop when it comes to prophecy. They ganged up on my the first time I posted in one of these threads. So I researched the book of Enoch and it says nothing about Genesis 6, not one character in either story is mentioned in the other, no Noah in Enoch, no Azazel in Genesis.

When I asked for someone to show how fallen angels got into the storyline of the context, can they exegete it to show the fallen angels. No takers, they all brakes down what I post, but no one will deal with the context of the Scriptures.

valiant · Jun 3, 2017

Johnny_B said:

You hypocrite. I have dealt with the context of Scripture and shown how it cannot mean what you claim. The daughters of 'adam are quite clearly those described in the previous chapter, the daughters of Seth (the only daughters previously mentioned)..

The bene Elohim relate back to the Elohim in the creation story, where they also 'suddenly' come in. All fits together nicely. The trouble is you just don't want to see it.

And I have never cited Enoch. I have cited the Scriptures.

RedeemedGift · Jun 7, 2017

valiant said:

Bane Elohim is used a grand total of five times in the Masoretic. That's it. Genesis 6, Job 1, 2 and 38 are all we have there, and the contexts between both books where the phrase is used are completely different. Genesis 6 is all about MAN'S sin, MAN'S disobedience, men of lustful human flesh marrying women. How many times have righteous men of God gone into seductive women who are not of God? We shouldn't pretend this theme isn't present throughout all the Bible. Man, or men, is mentioned no less than 11 times between the first verse and the thirteenth verse, how can that not tell us what the context is?

Job chapters 1, 2 are self-explanatory, it's Satan, a spirit being, amongst others. In Job 38, it's clearly not man, is it? Man wasn't around when the stars were made.

So what are you saying? That Old Testament saints are not saved by the blood of Jesus as much as we are? Abel was called righteous, Seth was called righteous, Enoch was raptured for goodness sake. You would not call them sons of God? Considering the context of Genesis 6 which you have ignored, and the fact that only in Genesis 6 is the phrase "huoi Theou" used, I don't see what legs you have to stand on to hold the position you do.

We know the LXX was created at least 200 years before Christ was even born, so how would they discern any difference?

But were they? It wasn't until Methuselah's (son of the raptured Enoch) death that the flood came, and he only died 5 years after his son Lamech died. They are of the line of Seth, are they not? Since the context of Genesis 6 is dealing with man's sin increasingly worsening sin on the earth, why should one ignore the definition of the word "nephilim" which means men of great renown, like murderous tyrants, fellers?

The context says "no". The LXX says "no".

How do you know that is what the Hebrew manuscripts they translated from said? If they could translate Genesis 6 as huioi Theou, why would they not do the same in Job also? Without Job containing anything to do with any "sons of God", your position falls apart.

Why not let the Bible interpret itself? We go wrong when we go outside of the Bible for doctrine, as I said.

Denadii · Jun 7, 2017

RedeemedGift said:

g: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: autoDealing with the Fallen Angels in the Room
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of
all which they chose. (Genesis 6:2)
There is great speculation regarding the identity of the Sons of God in Genesis 6:2. I prefer the
traditional Hebraic view that these were angels and not men. Some would argue today that the sons of
God represented the descendants of Seth. Dr. Chuck Missler explains the origin of the Sethite theory:
The strange events recorded in Genesis 6 were understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, as
well as the Septuagint translators, as referring to fallen angels procreating weird hybrid
offspring with human women-known as the “Nephilim.” So it was also understood by the early
church fathers. These bizarre events are also echoed in the legends and myths of every ancient
culture upon the earth: the ancient Greeks, the Egyptians, the Hindus, the South Sea Islanders,
the American Indians, and virtually all the others.
However, many students of the Bible have been taught that this passage in Genesis
6actually refers to a failure to keep the “faithful” lines of Seth separate from the “worldly” line
of Cain. The idea has been advanced that after Cain killed Abel, the line of Seth remained
separate and faithful, but the line of Cain turned ungodly and rebellious. The “Sons of God” are
deemed to refer to leadership in the line of Seth; the “daughters of men” is deemed restricted to
the line of Cain. The resulting marriages ostensibly blurred an inferred separation between
them. (Why the resulting offspring are called the “Nephilim” remains without any clear
explanation.)
Since Jesus prophesied, “As the days of Noah were, so shall the coming of the Son of
Man be,” it becomes essential to understand what these days included.
Origin of the Sethite View
It was in the 5th Century A.D. that the “angel” interpretation of Genesis 6was
increasingly viewed as an embarrassment when attacked by critics. (Furthermore, the worship
of angels had begun within the church. Also, celibacy had also become an institution of the
church. The “angel” view of Genesis 6was feared as impacting these views.)
Celsus and Julian the Apostate used the traditional “angel” belief to attack
Christianity. Julius Africanus resorted to the Sethite interpretation as a more comfortable
ground. Cyril of Alexandria also repudiated the orthodox “angel” position with the “line
of Seth” interpretation. Augustine also embraced the Sethite theory and thus it prevailed
into the Middle Ages. It is still widely taught today among many churches who find the
literal “angel” view a bit disturbing. There are many outstanding Bible teachers who still
defend this view.[34]
In my own personal research, I have concluded that Dr. Missler is correct. All of the sages of
Israel and the early Church fathers concluded that the “sons of God” referred to some category of
angel and not righteous men! It should also be noted that, in the rabbinical literature of today, these
sons of God are still interpreted as fallen angels as well. The only deviation from this interpretation
is within Catholic theology and the Protestant theology that was influenced by Rome. Any time a
biblical theory stops at Rome and does not continue on to Jerusalem, I am convinced that it produces
problems. Rome’s universal Church tends to amalgamate pagan traditions and concepts rather than
replacing them with biblical truth. It appears to me that the truth of fallen angels breeding with human
women did not fit well into other areas of their developing theology, thus an alternative view was
developed.
George H. Pember, in his classic work written in late 1800s, Earth’s Earliest Ages, came to the
same conclusion:
These words are often explained to signify nothing more than the intermarriage of the
descendants of Cain and Seth: but a careful examination of the passage will elicit a far deeper
meaning.
When men, we are told, began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were
born unto them, the sons of God saw the daughters of men. Now by “men” in each case the
whole human race is evidently signified, the descendants of Cain and Seth alike. Hence the
“sons of God” are plainly distinguished from the generation of Adam.
Again; the expression “sons of God” (Elohim) occurs four times in other parts of
the Old Testament, and is in each of these cases indisputably used of angelic beings.[35]
To me, the concept of producing giants by the marriage of godly men with corrupt women is farfetched. If that were the case, we would have giants living among us today. It is obvious that
something more was going on—something supernatural.
Finally, we find that the book of Genesis is not the oldest book in the Bible; the book of Job is.
Moses wrote the book of Genesis after 1440 BCE, during the forty years in the wilderness. Most
scholars believe Job was written between 2000 to 1800 BCE. In the book of Job, the angels that
appeared before God, to include Satan, were called Bene Elohim. The Noah narrative perfectly
matches the language already inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Son's of God Genesis 6:1-8

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