2 Peter 2 (Let's get into it)

[Zmouth]

No believing is not a work. It is accepting and responding to the truth because I can do no other. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Believing is a work if it is the act required to acquire a promised consideration.

If I walk up to you and give you $10, that is a gift which requires no belief or work on your part to receive..

However, if I walk up to you and promise to give you $10 if in return for you doing something then you only obtain the $10 by your doing something in return, which let say that something is your saying "you believe" So your faith is in receiving the $10 thus saying I believe is the works that obtains the promise.

 

[Zmouth]

Amen! Believing is not simply another work in series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works, as some teach. Through believing, we are trusting in Another's work - "Christ's finished work of redemption."

I would agree with that except you condition that salvation on a person's belief in God in order to be saved when the person can't have faith until they receive the gift of faith.

 

[UnderGrace]

Faith is not the gift...it is salvation that is the gift

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Ephesians 2:

I would agree with that except you condition that salvation on a person's belief in God in order to be saved when the person can't have faith until they receive the gift of faith.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I would agree with that except you condition that salvation on a person's belief in God in order to be saved when the person can't have faith until they receive the gift of faith.

Everyone has faith —— even unbelievers.


The issue is not whether one has faith or does not have faith.


The issue is WHO do we place our faith in.


If/when we hear the word of God (by which faith comes - Rom 10:17) do we suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18)?


Or do we receive it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God (1 These 2:13), and allow that Word of God to percolate down to our hearts where God brings the increase (1 Cor 3:15)?


2 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


Compare 2 These 2:13 with Her 4:2


Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


When the word is preached, if the hearer suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, there is no profit to that person (Heb 4:2).


On the other hand, when the word is preached, if the hearer receives it as it is in truth, the Word of God, that word will work effectually in that person (2 These 2:13).

 

[Katy-follower]

he IS talking about those who heard the word, maybe believed it, but never really trusted it, tasted it, but never swallowed it (hence why it did not take root or produce fruit)

it it is worse for them, because they were this close to salvation, and let it slip away, then the unbeliever who never gave it any thought but rejected t outright from the beginning.

Verse 19 really jumped out at me... "while they (false teachers) promise them liberty" - well, real believers already have real freedom in Christ, don't we. So why would we follow a false teacher trying to offer us "freedom"? What is enticing about it? Nothing. However, the lost (non believers) have no freedom. They would easily be enticed with this promise of liberty, because they themselves have none. They are searching.

Also, I see 3 sets of people are being addressed here... "you" (believers), "they" (false teachers), "the ones/them" (the lost who follow them).

 

[Zmouth]

Faith is not the gift...it is salvation that is the gift

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Ephesians 2:

Mark 9:23
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

So you believe that all things are possible, except that faith is the gift since as written in 2 Thess 3:2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.





4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:4-9

Everyone has faith —— even unbelievers.


The issue is not whether one has faith or does not have faith.

To all men is given a measure of faith...but a measure is a part, not the whole. The measure of faith that all men have is the ability to believe. However they believe what they want to believe is true and dismiss whatever they don't want to believe is true, having not the faith to adhere to the principles of Christ.
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 2 Thess 3:2

 

[Katy-follower]

they fled the world in search of hope, and decided the hope offered was not what they were looking for, the false teachers led them away. Just like the Jews led many Jewish people who tried to follow Christ away to return to law

It reminds me a bit of the famous woes, specifically verse 13...

(Matthew 23)

V13: “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in"

V15: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves"

V25: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also"

 

[Katy-follower]

Either "we have the Son and have life or we don't".

It is not some thing we work for in our own self-effort. I really encourage you to ask the Lord about the real gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

1 John 5:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Great post!

And I noticed it's the mormons who teach that endurance to the end is a necessary requirement!

 

[Grace777x70]

Great post!

And I noticed it's the mormons who teach that endurance to the end is a necessary requirement!

All work for salvation believers are really trying to achieve what Christ has already done on the cross and resurrection. This is why they have exchanged the grace of God for a behavior modification program of the flesh. The Lord is bringing to an end this religion with the preaching of Christ and Him crucified and us crucified with Him on the cross and raised to newness of life.

The preaching and teaching of Christ with His grace and the gift of righteousness being received will manifest in and through us the fruit of His life so that others in this world can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

Christ Himself will bring forth the end of religion!

 

[mailmandan]

I would agree with that except you condition that salvation on a person's belief in God in order to be saved when the person can't have faith until they receive the gift of faith.

Not simply belief in God. The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved (Acts 16:31). In other words, they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Faith is not the gift...it is salvation that is the gift

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Ephesians 2:

The Amplified Classic Bible explains it nicely: Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

 

[garee]

Faith cannot be works because we have been saved by grace, not of works lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8).

Since it is God Who has given to every man the measure of faith (Rom 12:3), and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God – Rom 10:17, there is no cause for boasting.

Incidentally, faith is energized by love – Gal 5:6.

The faith of God is a work of God. Without his faith working in us to both will and do His good pleasures no one could believe Him in order to please Him. Salvation is a work that He works in us. It is His grace in respect to his work of His faith, for it is Christ who works in us, and not the other way around.upside down ( Isaiah 29:16 )If any man has not the Spirit of Christ by which we can believe Him then neither do they know Him

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

You can ask oneself, what if some do not believe according to the faith of God, will their unbelief (no faith) make the faith of ?God as the work of God without effect. To effect is to work. No effect no work.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Rom 3:3

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you fall from faith, you fall from Grace, and you have not the Son, and you have not eternal life.

Eternal life is available to all who remain in the faith. But if you shrink back.....

Hebrews 10v38
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the[SUP][g][/SUP] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[SUP][h][/SUP]

How can you fall from something that was a gift of God to begin with? When will you all start relying on God, and not your flesh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Believing is a work if it is the act required to acquire a promised consideration.

If I walk up to you and give you $10, that is a gift which requires no belief or work on your part to receive..

However, if I walk up to you and promise to give you $10 if in return for you doing something then you only obtain the $10 by your doing something in return, which let say that something is your saying "you believe" So your faith is in receiving the $10 thus saying I believe is the works that obtains the promise.

john 6. The people asked, what work must we do to work the works of God,

Jesus reply, It is the WORK OF GOD that you believe in the one he sent.

 

[Chris1975]

john 6. The people asked, what work must we do to work the works of God,

Jesus reply, It is the WORK OF GOD that you believe in the one he sent.

[h=1]Luke 18:18-23New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

[SUP]19 [/SUP]So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”[SUP][a][/SUP]

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.



Why is it that Jesus did not tell this one to simply "Believe"? Why was Jesus talking about commandments in answer to the question of eternal life?

Or do you think there are multiple ways to eternal life? A set of commandments for one set of people, and for set of people its faith?

 

[Chris1975]

How can you fall from something that was a gift of God to begin with? When will you all start relying on God, and not your flesh?

Because Hebrews 10v38 says so.

 

[valiant]

Believing is a work if it is the act required to acquire a promised consideration.

If I walk up to you and give you $10, that is a gift which requires no belief or work on your part to receive..

However, if I walk up to you and promise to give you $10 if in return for you doing something then you only obtain the $10 by your doing something in return, which let say that something is your saying "you believe" So your faith is in receiving the $10 thus saying I believe is the works that obtains the promise.

It is not an act required, it is a response. God saves, I respond.

 

[valiant]

Because Hebrews 10v38 says so.

No it says, 'we are NOT of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and guard their souls.'

In other words 'we have believed'.

 

[valiant]

Luke 18:18-23New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

[SUP]19 [/SUP]So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”[SUP][a][/SUP]

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.



Why is it that Jesus did not tell this one to simply "Believe"? Why was Jesus talking about commandments in answer to the question of eternal life?

Or do you think there are multiple ways to eternal life? A set of commandments for one set of people, and for set of people its faith?

He was pointing out that the Pharisaic idea of obtaining eternal life was wrong (they taught it was by keeping the Law). He was proving to the young man that he could not do it. No man receives eternal life by keeping the commandments, only by following Jesus

You have however made crystal clear that YOU believe it. God help you

 

[Chris1975]

He was pointing out that the Pharisaic idea of obtaining eternal life was wrong (they taught it was by keeping the Law). He was proving to the young man that he could not do it. No man receives eternal life by keeping the commandments, only by following Jesus

You have however made crystal clear that YOU believe it. God help you

That's not what these scriptures say.