2 Peter 2 (Let's get into it)

[Grace777x70]

The Greek word "inherit" means "to obtain" or "to share in".

If we live in worry as a Christian because we have envy of what some others have ( this is a work of the flesh ) or we are in strife with others and we die - will we go to heaven or go to hell as some works-based belief systems try to tell us?

Paul said that the kingdom of God is within us - and it is righteousness, peace and joy.

If we don't experience peace ( because of our envy or our strife we can have with others ) here on this earth and we die - do we still go to heaven?

We did not "share in" or "obtain" the peace while we were here on this earth for whatever reason as this peace is the kingdom of God.

The same principle applies for "joy" in our lives too. What if a Christian does not experience the joy that is ours in the kingdom of God? Do they go to hell now because they didn't experience this joy? Of course not. it is foolishness.

If Gal. 5:19-21 means that we don't go to heaven because of the works of the flesh - then it would be very important to know what "things like these" are because that term is included in the works of the flesh.

Just what are "these things" that will send us to hell? ( other than the ones named in the list in Gal. 5:19-21 )

Because if heaven or hell depends on us knowing what "these things are" if inheriting the kingdom means going to heaven when we die. This is not the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

Preach and teach Christ and Him crucified and that we too died with Him on the cross and we also rose with Him to newness of life. This will provide the proper nutrients for the true Christian to walk out the kingdom of God that is already within them in the new creation which is one spirit with the Lord.

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe those that are acting with this conduct are walking by the flesh and because of that they will not experience the life that is in us because we are in the kingdom.

If someone has malice ( which is ill-will ) towards someone else in the body of Christ for the last 2 months - then die tonight - do they go to hell? This is in the same list as living in sexual sins.

What about quarrels? Quarrels is in the same list as well - imagine "quarreling" with others that day and then you die that night - do they go to hell too for that work of the flesh?

That's why I say "There must be more to this inheriting the kingdom" thing then meets the casual eye.

I fully agree 100% that any behavior associated with those in the list of the works of the flesh are not godly and which is why I believe in preaching the grace of Christ so that people can come out of walking by the flesh and experience His true life and so that good fruit will come forth from their lives.

I am vehemently against every one in that list - from outbursts of anger, envy, strife, division causing, adultery, homosexual lifestyles - quarrels is even in that list. All of them are works of the flesh and will bring destruction to the believer in some form or other.

My own personal belief is that God will deal with all of us and discipline us as sons - because we are sons. Will some of us die before our time because of our behavior? Yes!

It may "look" like I'm saying that these works of the flesh are ok - I am not. I am saying the complete opposite.

I just don't see where these works of the flesh send one to hell although I was taught that in my religious church upbringing. ( Pentecostal )

That's why I firmly believe in preaching and teaching the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ so that we can grow up in Him and others in the world can see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord has towards them. We are the body of Christ on this earth.

 

[MattforJesus]

They have been chosen for they confess Jesus as Lord and Savior,and the Christ,the Son of the living God,but they have not sorted things out,for having food,and clothing,be content,and those that name the name of Christ must depart from iniquity.

I meant to put they have been called but have not sorted things out.

 

[stonesoffire]

Our heart condemns us when we act in flesh. It's a good thing. Love and mercy is always the answer for a condemning heart.

 

[mailmandan]

From the red above. Are you saying a believer can never fall into adultery? In other words you agree then with sinless perfection? Where is your dividing line, that's what I'm trying to determine.

A believer can obviously fall into adultery, as we saw with David, yet that is not where a genuine believer remains with no repentance. My dividing line is temporarily stumble and fall, yet rise again in repentance vs. willful, habitual lifestyle, continuous action, no repentance, just bring it on.

 

[Chris1975]

I believe those that are acting with this conduct are walking by the flesh and because of that they will not experience the life that is in us because we are in the kingdom.

If someone has malice ( which is ill-will ) towards someone else in the body of Christ for the last 2 months - then die tonight - do they go to hell? This is in the same list as living in sexual sins.

What about quarrels? Quarrels is in the same list as well - imagine "quarreling" with others that day and then you die that night - do they go to hell too for that work of the flesh?

That's why I say "There must be more to this inheriting the kingdom" thing then meets the casual eye.

I fully agree 100% that any behavior associated with those in the list of the works of the flesh are not godly and which is why I believe in preaching the grace of Christ so that people can come out of walking by the flesh and experience His true life and so that good fruit will come forth from their lives.

I am vehemently against every one in that list - from outbursts of anger, envy, strife, division causing, adultery, homosexual lifestyles - quarrels is even in that list. All of them are works of the flesh and will bring destruction to the believer in some form or other.

My own personal belief is that God will deal with all of us and discipline us as sons - because we are sons. Will some of us die before our time because of our behavior? Yes!

It may "look" like I'm saying that these works of the flesh are ok - I am not. I am saying the complete opposite.

I just don't see where these works of the flesh send one to hell although I was taught that in my religious church upbringing. ( Pentecostal )

That's why I firmly believe in preaching and teaching the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ so that we can grow up in Him and others in the world can see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord has towards them. We are the body of Christ on this earth.

Romans 6
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You purposefully deceive.

 

[BillG]

A believer can obviously fall into adultery, as we saw with David, yet that is not where a genuine believer remains with no repentance. My dividing line is temporarily stumble and fall, yet rise again in repentance vs. willful, habitual lifestyle, continuous action, no repentance, just bring it on.

What I find interesting and cannot get my head round is that most of the focus is on the sins of the flesh as such. The outworkings that people can see but do not seem to concerned about the following

Matthew 25:34-36
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

If we fall foul of one of the above then surely we fall foul the new commandments that Jesus gave us?
We have not loved the Lord our God with all our soul and our neighbour as ourselves.

That being the case what then? Those who were told to depart from Jesus fell foul of the above.

So I think we need to be careful when we purely focus on the flesh and also pay attention to the heart.

I mean, let's say we know of someone in the church who is poor and struggles to put food on the table. I know of this but I'd rather use my money to buy the latest gadgets or by myself say 3 Starbucks a day. I haven't fed someone who is hungry.

Dont get me wrong we need to crucify the flesh and all its passions but we also need to look at the whole picture.

Idolatry or gluttony to me is no different from someone who falls foul of the words of Jesus when separating the sheep and the goats.

 

[Chris1975]

What I find interesting and cannot get my head round is that most of the focus is on the sins of the flesh as such. The outworkings that people can see but do not seem to concerned about the following

Matthew 25:34-36
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

If we fall foul of one of the above then surely we fall foul the new commandments that Jesus gave us?
We have not loved the Lord our God with all our soul and our neighbour as ourselves.

That being the case what then? Those who were told to depart from Jesus fell foul of the above.

So I think we need to be careful when we purely focus on the flesh and also pay attention to the heart.

I mean, let's say we know of someone in the church who is poor and struggles to put food on the table. I know of this but I'd rather use my money to buy the latest gadgets or by myself say 3 Starbucks a day. I haven't fed someone who is hungry.

Dont get me wrong we need to crucify the flesh and all its passions but we also need to look at the whole picture.

Idolatry or gluttony to me is no different from someone who falls foul of the words of Jesus when separating the sheep and the goats.

^^^ excellent.

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 6
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You purposefully deceive.

Nonsense and that is deceitful for you to say this. In your own religion - you condemn yourself to hell. Thank God for the free gift of eternal life in Christ. Rom. 6:23

If you died tonight - if you are a true Christian - you would go to be with the Lord. because of His work and you were sealed with the Holy Spirit when you believed. Eph. 1"13.

 

[Muzungu256]

but it says inherit the kingdom of God meaning its future......... and if the kingdom talked about is here now within us it doesnt match a christian with the Holy Spirit should have it already.............. so maybe it is talking about the new jerusalem and such............. doesnt make sense if its only about living a good life now because the apostles were living a hard life and so were many early christians from an earthly view they were persecuted and many martyred!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are having it so easy and still fail God have mercy on us!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Grace777x70]

If we walk after the flesh we will not obtain, share in which is what "inherit" means in what is ours in Christ. This is why we preach Christ and the word of His grace because it is what gives us our inheritance that is ours because Christ is in us and we are in the kingdom of God now.

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace,which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

who are sanctified is in the perfect passive which means a done deal in the past that remains in effect continuously in the present. Passive means it was done to you - you did NOT do it to yourself - it was by the Holy Spirit when we believed in Christ.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Thank God one day we will be physically with the Lord for all eternity but right now we have eternal life in our new creation in Christ.

1 John 5:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Chris1975]

If we walk after the flesh we will not obtain, share in which is what "inherit" means in what is ours in Christ. This is why we preach Christ and the word of His grace because it is what gives us our inheritance that is ours because Christ is in us and we are in the kingdom of God now.

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace,which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

who are sanctified is in the perfect passive which means a done deal in the past that remains in effect continuously in the present. Passive means it was done to you - you did NOT do it to yourself - it was by the Holy Spirit when we believed in Christ.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Thank God one day we will be physically with the Lord for all eternity but right now we have eternal life in our new creation in Christ.

1 John 5:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Let's look at the full passage of scripture:

1 Corinthians 6
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[SUP][a][/SUP] nor sodomites, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

- If we are to apply Grace777's interpretation to the above passage, then these (in orange above) will be saved, its just they won't experience God's kingdom here on earth.

- However the passage goes on.....And such WERE some of you. In other words this is the life of the unbeliever, but once coming to Christ, these things CHANGE. We become sanctified (holy).
- If a person goes back into the world and is once again overcome, the latter end is worse for them than in the beginning (2 Peter 2 v 20).
- The inheritance will not be found. Eternal life is not for the unbeliever.

 

[Grace777x70]

Let's look at the full passage of scripture:

1 Corinthians 6
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[SUP][a][/SUP] nor sodomites, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

- If we are to apply Grace777's interpretation to the above passage, then these (in orange above) will be saved, its just they won't experience God's kingdom here on earth.

- However the passage goes on.....And such WERE some of you. In other words this is the life of the unbeliever, but once coming to Christ, these things CHANGE. We become sanctified (holy).
- If a person goes back into the world and is once again overcome, the latter end is worse for them than in the beginning (2 Peter 2 v 20).
- The inheritance will not be found. Eternal life is not for the unbeliever.

That is where you err. Those are "identities" of the unrighteous in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 as opposed to the identity of those that are righteous now because of Christ. Our identity is in Christ and not in the things of the flesh now. We are to walk by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

The believer has eternal life in them forever and Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16. Jesus is NOT a liar. We can trust Him.

That's why we are to proclaim Christ and Him crucified because we were crucified with Him and we too were raised from the dead with Him.

The true Christian needs the proper nutrients of the love and grace of God in Christ in order for them to walk by the spirit and not be fooled by a works-righteousness false doctrine that denies the power of God for real transformation by the Holy Spirit.

Paul didn't say that the baby Christians in Corinth were going to hell now because of walking in the flesh. Post # 243 and # 244 clearly show this. There is such a distortion of the gospel of the grace of Christ and so much unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153404-2-peter-2-lets-get-into-13.html#post3122283

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153404-2-peter-2-lets-get-into-13.html#post3122287

Why do we have unbelieving believers in Christ and are denying their Lord and Master by trying to establish their own righteousness?

 

[Grace777x70]

This whole lose your salvation doctrine is a complete denial of the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious "sinless perfection in the flesh" ( or not having any works of the flesh still in their life ) Christian life that was being preached to them by some people.

They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

The Lord is bringing His beloved back to Him. Let's not have the judgmental works-based older brother who doesn't know the heart and true nature of the Father to meet them at the door of our churches instead of having the Father meet them.

I believe in preaching the love and grace of God in Christ so that believers will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Christ.

We need to build the firm foundation in Him first before we bring on the warning scriptures because we can speak of them in the wrong light and if we are not built on the foundation of Christ Himself and His finished work on the cross - it can cause us to become ship-wrecked in our faith while on this earth.

Speaking the warning scriptures to those with that have that firm foundation in Christ is needed and they should be heeded and then they become a blessing to us and keep us centered on Christ and His life and not on the flesh with it's deceitfulness.

Walk by the flesh in this life and we will bring destruction of some sort in all our lives - from living a homosexual lifestyle to outbursts of anger, to malice, to envy, to the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are all in the same lists together.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God so that we can grow up in Christ.

 

[Muzungu256]

If we walk after the flesh we will not obtain, share in which is what "inherit" means in what is ours in Christ. This is why we preach Christ and the word of His grace because it is what gives us our inheritance that is ours because Christ is in us and we are in the kingdom of God now.

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace,which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

who are sanctified is in the perfect passive which means a done deal in the past that remains in effect continuously in the present. Passive means it was done to you - you did NOT do it to yourself - it was by the Holy Spirit when we believed in Christ.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Thank God one day we will be physically with the Lord for all eternity but right now we have eternal life in our new creation in Christ.

1 John 5:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

thanks grace! God bless you i overstand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[stonesoffire]

2Co 3:18　 As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord's Spirit.　

Becoming more like Him....within our Spirit we are "finished" or sealed. But, we have a soul and body and the soul needs "saved". From the inside out is our salvation process.

I believe God is more patient with us then the "church" is. Or possibly religion...misunderstanding the true nature of God.

No 3 strikes and you are out in the kingdom.

It's a process and is done by Holy Spirit. Grace 7 has it right. He sticks to the foundation which if we don't have it correct...all the building is off.

 

[Grace777x70]

2Co 3:18　 As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord's Spirit.　

Becoming more like Him....within our Spirit we are "finished" or sealed. But, we have a soul and body and the soul needs "saved". From the inside out is our salvation process.

I believe God is more patient with us then the "church" is. Or possibly religion...misunderstanding the true nature of God.

No 3 strikes and you are out in the kingdom.

It's a process and is done by Holy Spirit. Grace 7 has it right. He sticks to the foundation which if we don't have it correct...all the building is off.

Amen....we must have the foundation right or else the whole building will be off. That foundation is Christ Himself. He is the cornerstone - He is the rock of offense to the self-righteousness belief system that says "We save ourselves".

As we have received Him - so we walk in Him and it is all by grace through faith in what He has already done. Good news/gospel means something that is proclaimed as being done. They call it "news" for a reason.

Colossians 2:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

Nonsense and that is deceitful for you to say this. In your own religion - you condemn yourself to hell. Thank God for the free gift of eternal life in Christ. Rom. 6:23

If you died tonight - if you are a true Christian - you would go to be with the Lord. because of His work and you were sealed with the Holy Spirit when you believed. Eph. 1"13.

This is a very odd statement. In your own religion.
So g7 is saying he has his own religion. I hope he enjoys it, lol.
I do not think any of us wish to join him, as he is willing to condemn simple
believers.

 

[Zmouth]

If you died tonight - if you are a true Christian - you would go to be with the Lord. because of His work and you were sealed with the Holy Spirit when you believed. Eph. 1"13.

This is a very odd statement. In your own religion.
So g7 is saying he has his own religion. I hope he enjoys it, lol.
I do not think any of us wish to join him, as he is willing to condemn simple
believers.

At least I am not the only one, I figured if I died tonite the Cutting crew rule would apply. (See Duet 33:27)
I guess he has a point about dying at night, Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51

But then again if this evolution thing is true we don't actually die we just emerge from the flesh into the light of his glorious kingdom. But what I didn't get was the part about going to be with the LORD, if the LORD isn't with you now then is death going to bring you any closer?

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Ps 139:8