Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?

[Ariel82]

Inheritance. Sheep? or Sons?

Servant, slave, least of men, humble, beaten, bruised sheep and sons.

 

[stonesoffire]

I apologized for an unkind comment. The intent of the comment however, was true.

Angela

Ive already said I'm not wordnof faith. But faith in His Word is never wrong.

There are so many gems hidden in the scriptures and Holy Spirit loves to reveal them to us...

They are all about Jesus and what He has to give us.

Passover...
Pentecost..
Tabernacles...

How far will we walk with Him? It's up to us.

 

[Ariel82]

Yep a good study on does infants and mentally handicapped go to hell will put pre election to death where it belongs.

That's just it....reformed folks don't believe that predestination means some are destined to hell.

They believe that God give a folks a choice but because of the sinful world and human selfish nature..,humans choose self and sin over God and His will.
.only some are given additional grace by God...this draws them out of sin and their own bad decisions into having a saving faith in the gospel.

God allows all to chose life or death but He also makes an extra effort of grace for His elect,whom he chooses to fulfill His will not because of their innate merit.

 

[stonesoffire]

Servant, slave, least of men, humble, beaten, bruised sheep and sons.

servants, no. That is not what we have been given through Jesus. Heirs of His inheritance left for us to reign in life by.

Im never so surprised as when I see just how much the children of God do not understand what we are. What Yeshua bought for us so that He can call us brethren.

 

[Johnny_B]

Who teaches that you, read John 2:17-20 Jesus did not come to condemn, people are condemned already. That's what this thread is about trying to find who teaches this, because no Calvinist here does. It's a straw man the people that think they know what Calvinism teaches.

John 3:17-20 not 2:17-20

 

[preacher4truth]

I apologized for an unkind comment. The intent of the comment however, was true..

I know, which proves your apology to be disingenuous. IOW, you meant and still mean the harm you intended, and the apology was only remorse for being caught. So, no need to apologize on your part, you still mean what you've said, the apology was all show, or, better yet "biblical abracadabra" and "charisma." I've been around the block enough to know a false apology when I see one.

 

[DJ2]

Recently a former member posted the following accusations:



Who here teaches these things?

The Reformed have been barraged with many false accusations. One of the drive by slanders of one recently wishing to be removed from the site employed the derision of "lottery" on others who believe in Biblical election. It was intended to ridicule the doctrine of election and those who believe in it.

Now the accusations include the things included in the above quote as well.

So, I am asking, do you teach God creates people to send them to hell?

Do you teach that if one seeks God out of a contrite heart, and thus seeks forgiveness, that it isn't enough?

Or, are all of these simply more false accusations leveled at the Reformed brothers and sisters?

Do not many Baptist churches use Romans 9:21 as proof text for your two questions?

 

[preacher4truth]

Do not many Baptist churches use Romans 9:21 as proof text for your two questions?

I don't know if many do or not. Do you?

 

[stonesoffire]

I know, which proves your apology to be disingenuous. IOW, you meant and still mean the harm you intended, and the apology was only remorse for being caught. So, no need to apologize on your part, you still mean what you've said, the apology was all show, or, better yet "biblical abracadabra" and "charisma." I've been around the block enough to know a false apology when I see one.

all I said was you're a toasty kind of guy. You like plain bread and no new revelation.

Is this true ?

 

[DJ2]

I don't know if many do or not. Do you?

Are you attempting to be coy or is that a serious reply?

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you attempting to be coy or is that a serious reply?

No, I'm being serious.

 

[Ariel82]

Do not many Baptist churches use Romans 9:21 as proof text for your two questions?

What is taught is that God's mercy saves people but people's sins are what causes them to be condemned.

God doesn't tempt people to sin.they do that on their own.
God is still just to punish sinners..vessels of wrath.

However God predestined some to be pulled from,the fire and reshaped to display His glory and mercy to the world.

 

[UnderGrace]

I kinda jumping in on this thread, but I am really not understanding this idea of an extra measure of grace for His elect?

Which scripture are you drawing from?

That's just it....reformed folks don't believe that predestination means some are destined to hell.

They believe that God give a folks a choice but because of the sinful world and human selfish nature..,humans choose self and sin over God and His will.
.only some are given additional grace by God...this draws them out of sin and their own bad decisions into having a saving faith in the gospel.

God allows all to chose life or death but He also makes an extra effort of grace for His elect,whom he chooses to fulfill His will not because of their innate merit.

 

[preacher4truth]

all I said was you're a toasty kind of guy. You like plain bread and no new revelation.

Is this true ?

There is no, zero, zilch new revelation.

To believe that heresy is to deny the sufficiency of Scripture.

And you believe it to your denial of Scriptures sufficiency.

But of course there are false churches that will "teach" others how to "prophesy" in order to hoodwink them into their error.

 

[DJ2]

That's just it....reformed folks don't believe that predestination means some are destined to hell.

They believe that God give a folks a choice but because of the sinful world and human selfish nature..,humans choose self and sin over God and His will.
.only some are given additional grace by God...this draws them out of sin and their own bad decisions into having a saving faith in the gospel.

God allows all to chose life or death but He also makes an extra effort of grace for His elect,whom he chooses to fulfill His will not because of their innate merit.

It seems you are attempting to sugar coat the doctrine of predestination. The prefix is pre. The root word is destiny. What do you think the word means? It is the opposite of choice.

 

[Depleted]

​What I've seen is that most don't search it our for themselves, but believe what they've been told by a trusted friend. So to malign them or call them a liar isn't called for because they really believe what they've been told.

But also, when you read the doctrines of grace (the tulip) it's easy to go away with some of the hyper stuff. Theodore Beza who was the one who went after Arminian was the one that drafted along with other men the tulip, but he was more extreme than Calvin. So the way the tulip is worded, it allows extremism.

I do give that people just don't know. I did give that. Even spent days explaining it. But at what point, after repeating the same thing again and again, and the person just repeats what's been told over what people of that persuasion tell them, does it finally turn into it is lies?

You've said you've been to reformed churches as well as non-reformed. You've said that more than once, (not just talking to me, so you had to say it more than once.) After you said it several times, if I said "You've never been in a Reformed Church," might I assume you'd think I missed your previous statements? And then you'd tell it to me again?

What happens if I keep saying that you've never been in one? How many times can I say that before you finally get to the point of calling me a liar?

I got to say, sooner or later you should call me a liar.

And then once you did, do you really think it's within my rights to tell everyone that you're maligning me? Okay, we're Americans, so if there really are rights, I guess you're within your rights, but wouldn't me saying you are maligning me, just be another lie?

I really do get people don't understand. I no longer buy it when a typically rational person keeps telling the lie after the misinformation has been clarified by multiple people in multiple ways and multiple times.

 

[Ariel82]

I kinda jumping in on this thread, but I am really not understanding this idea of an extra measure of grace for His elect?

Which scripture are you drawing from?

Two types of grace....

One is that God allows it to rain on the just and unjust.

Another is God gives the Holy Spirit to His adopted children.

Let me find the scriptures.

 

[Angela53510]

I apologized for an unkind comment. The intent of the comment however, was true.

Angela

Ive already said I'm not wordnof faith. But faith in His Word is never wrong.

There are so many gems hidden in the scriptures and Holy Spirit loves to reveal them to us...

They are all about Jesus and what He has to give us.

Passover...
Pentecost..
Tabernacles...

How far will we walk with Him? It's up to us.

So you have faith in his Word, and yet you reject everything you don't like? Like all the neat metaphors, the comparisons? Those are there for a purpose. To teach us and to help us grow.

Yet you keep parroting all this nonsense about how you are not a sheep, only a son. Strange, I would rather be a daughter, but your choice of course. (Just joking! I know the masculine is inclusive of the feminine in Greek and Hebrew, as it used to be in English!)

The sheep metaphor is particularly poignant to me. My husband was telling me, after a frustrated day of disabling pain, that my "behaviour" showed I was not a Christian. I apologized, but then, God spoke to me and told me to tell him, "My sheep know my voice."

He was a bit taken aback, and then realized that, indeed, I did know the voice of God. It opened the door for me to speak to him about the fact that you cannot lose your salvation. A good talk, although, perhaps a ways to go for him on the soteriological issue.

Last summer, I was given John 10:7-10 to preach on in my church. That is when I got deep into the story behind sheep and goats, and how we are sheep, and that is a GOOD thing. Because, Jesus tells us to follow him, and all those years of me being a goat, running to and fro, far from him, came to an end, when I realized he was the door, and the way, the truth and the life AND the Good Shepherd!

Ironically, a favourite Word Faith verses is right in that parable of the sheep in John 10. (And yes you are Word Faith, not sure why you won't admit it. All the verses you quote, the way you argue, are all signs of following men and this destructive heresy, instead of the Bible, which you choose to reject so many parts of!)

"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10

Too many people pull this verse out of context, and apply it to material blessings or other nonsense, instead of understanding the context of the verse.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep." John 10:1-15.

The abundant life means having Jesus as the Good Shepherd. If you reject being a sheep, you are then rejecting the Good Shepherd. Besides not having respect for the Bible, where every single word counts! I would hate to see anyone excluded because from the Kingdom of God, because they had been lied to about the richness of the meanings of the Bible, and by rejecting being a sheep, the Good Shepherd also rejects them.

As for this narrow view that sheep and goats are nations, you really don't know how to read the Bible, do you? Jesus uses that in in Matt 25, to refer to the nations, but the metaphor is so much broader than that. You simply cannot hermeneutically apply one passage of Scripture to every other occurrence of the word sheep. Because, in the Bible, sometimes sheep are actually sheep, too!

I am not planning on missing out on God's goodness, for Jesus is the Good Shepherd and certainly, I am his sheep.

 

[Ariel82]

Reformed folks call this common grace..

Matthew 5:45 ►
New International Version
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

 

[Ariel82]

https://carm.org/sermon-titus-211-14-results-saving-grace

In theological terms there are two types of grace: common grace and saving grace. Common grace is the favor that God gives to all people. Generally, it is manifested in the way God takes care of all people by providing for them sunshine, rain, shelter, food, government, laws, general health, etc. Common grace extends to every human alive.

On the other hand, saving grace is that favor from God expressed upon those whom He has chosen. This expression of grace results in salvation; hence we have such verses as:

Ephesians 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will."

Almost midnight..going to sleep.

Hope the verses help.