Not By Works

[Stephen63]

Your view on others position is NOT 100% correct anymore than their view that you teach sinless perfection or works salvation is true.

The only view you seem to be able to statement is your own and even then your communication ability is vague and often unclear because you like redefining words like G777.

Yeah, & we're still waiting for you to say something to G777 about his redefining of terms.

Not holding my breath, though.

Your view on others position is NOT 100% correct anymore than their view

Yours not even 10%

Why are you so hung up on PJ, anyway? You SAY his posts are no different, yet you're only riding his case about it.

If his are wrong also, that's saying they're all wrong.

Obviously integrity isn't one of your strong points.

 

[Ariel82]

I try not to redefine words as you say. So what you are saying is you do not understand
where I stand. It is a little difficult with such a bland statement. I am standing on evangelical
theology except for the doctrine to total inability. That is not vague or undefined.

No what I said was that you misrepresent where others stand and they don't get where you stand because of your constant misrepresentation of where they stand.

.instead of listening when you actually getting around to telling folks what you actually believe, they are busy defending your attack upon them by your false accusations/portayal of what they believe.

Example: you accused gb9 of teaching legalism earlier today in this thread.

 

[Ariel82]

Yeah, & we're still waiting for you to say something to G777 about his redefining of terms.

Not holding my breath, though.

Yours not even 10%

Why are you so hung up on PJ, anyway? You SAY his posts are no different, yet you're only riding his case about it.

If his are wrong also, that's saying they're all wrong.

Obviously integrity isn't one of your strong points.

I told G777 his redefining of terms gives me a headache.

He tells me He doesn't care and his posts are for others and not me.

.I say okay and then ignore his posts.

****

I have told folks they are wrong about Peter teaching sinless perfection or works salvation countless times, but at the end of the day HE has to show them what he believes.

Peter and I are having a conversation.

When he tells me He doesn't care to speak with me, then we will end the conversation.

Me and you, we don't talk much because it rarely accomplishes much of anything.

 

[slave]

with love ariel..... with love

(^w^)


i havent been keepin up with this thread


now i feel like i misread

and you were looking for somethin from the other side


haha

sorry

feel free to ignore my post


i know works are a gift from God to us

not us to him

Pleasing the Lord should be the great ambition of every believers heart. Pleasing the Lord is not only to be a primary aim of all of His Children, but something at which we should all seek to excel, not to be accepted (alone),but because we love the Lord and because of future rewards. Ability to please the Lord is ultimately the result of His work in our lives as the Great Shepard. But this is where it comes,and it flows thru by, but not where it ends, for in our New miraculously transformed Christ-like self we are to seek to please God by doing as He wills. The credit is always His but the results will be in us doing it in Him.

Pleasing the Lord begins in the heart or inner person (our spirit) for this is where we think, while the brain is the result of our spiritual communication between His Spirit and ours. Now, the brain is to work hard too, but from the premise, then, of the spirits input only and not our knowledge first. A key element in righteous living.Our minds must be placed by us in the Lord therefore. Thus, it is from spirit we gain knowledge and understanding to be able to please Him in all respects.

When we fail to please Him, therefore, we ultimately become hostile; or at least, useless not only to God, but to man. It is not selfish, as we are in Christ, to count on future rewards, after our first love of Christ, to be a constant source of motivation. We, actually, are warned of entanglements which would hinder our capacity to please God.

Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the lord Jesus, that as you have received from us as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you may excel still more......not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God. (1 Thess. 4:1,5).

...equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, thru Jesus Christ to whom be the glory forever and ever. (Hebrews 13:21).

For you were formally Darkness; but now you are the light in the Lord, walk as Children of Light (for the fruit of the Light (consists) in all goodness and righteousness and truth, trying to learn (a change in behavior) what is pleasing to the Lord. (Ephesians 5:8-10).

For this reason, also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual Wisdom and Understanding, so that you (may) walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in knowledge of God. (Col. 1:9-10).

...and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:8).

For the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness (a right (properly aligned) relationship with God) and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (not simply from the Holy Spirit). For he who is in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. (Romans 14:17-18).

Therefore also we have as our ambition (never self ambition, but our New Christ-like dispositional ambition) whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to God. (2 Corinthians 5:9).

..so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the days of Christ. (Philippians 1:10).

 

[Ariel82]

I have also told Peter that Dcon and EG don't teach a lawless, easy believism doctrine, but he doesn't listen either.

What does G777 teach? I don't know. Sometimes He says things that sound okay, but his posts give me a headache to read so I don't bother reading most of them. If I read any of hjs post and he says something that totally contradicts the Bible,i comment. Otherwise I just skip his posts.

Does that mean I lack integrity or just prefer not wasting my time?

I make a policy to spend time talking to people who respect and love me or that God moves me to speak with.

Otherwise, why bother?

Jesus didn't demand His disciples to chase after and tear down the Pharisees. He said let the blind lead the blind and both will fall into a ditch.

God has us rebuke those we view as brothers and sisters.

How does God tell us to deal with wolves?

Beat them bloody?

Or does He say to mark them, warn the other sheep and then avoid them?

There is no point in rebuking wolves because they won't listen.

So until I consider someone a brother or sister in Christ, i don't bother rebuking them.

Doesn't mean they aren't one of God's children,just means we don't have a loving relationship as siblings so I don't bother addressing/rebuking their behavior. Just their doctrine.

 

[Stephen63]

I told G777 his redefining of terms gives me a headache.

He tells me He doesn't care and his posts are for others and not me.

.I say okay and then ignore his posts.

****

I have told folks they are wrong about Peter teaching sinless perfection or works salvation countless times, but at the end of the day HE has to show them what he believes.

Peter and I are having a conversation.

When he tells me He doesn't care to speak with me, then we will end the conversation.

Me and you, we don't talk much because it rarely accomplishes much of anything.

G777's posts always give you a headache..... that's your excuse for never reading them, anyway.

I think I could come up with a better excuse than that.

Just saying you're taking up for him & his doctrine would be more honest & easier to swallow.

 

[Ariel82]

G777 hasn't posted in this thread for days.your hatred of him has blinded you Stephen.

I posted a response in a thread G777 created...if you want to judge me on that, feel free:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153584-consequences-sinning.html

I don't read many of his post because I get stuck on a part that seems like a lie to me and the rest seems like nonsense...therefore a waste of time.

 

[PeterJens]

He is against sinless perfection doctrine, but approves of people trying to walk righteously.
Its not "emphasising failure" it's admiting the need for grace and mercy from God daily.
Why is that so hard to understand?

Ariel, dc has not been clear about what he believes so all I can say he classifies me, dooms me to hell.

So I cannot say he knows how to define his position, which implies to me he is scared of defining it.
Negating someone else is not positively affirming anything. This is why I regard this all as a joke.

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel, dc has not been clear about what he believes so all I can say he classifies me, dooms me to hell.

So I cannot say he knows how to define his position, which implies to me he is scared of defining it.
Negating someone else is not positively affirming anything. This is why I regard this all as a joke.

In other words...you are too busy defending yourself to actually hear what he says he believes?

 

[Stephen63]

DC dooms a lot of people to hell..... he's done me several times.

He definitely has doctrinal issues..... He says everybody's forever saved who's called on Jesus, regardless of their sins, outta one side of his mouth, then says those who are "works salvationists" are going straight to hell.

IOW, everybody's going BUT THEM.

It seems PJ & I are still the minority. Strait is the gate & narrow is the way, & few that be that find it.

 

[Ariel82]

See I have issues with that article G777.

We can start with this statement:


God still sees when we sin. He isn't blinded by the blood to our need to live holy and godly lives.

He has adopted us His kids and the next thing he does is feed us milk of His Word and teach us to discern right and wrong. Then He sends us as ambassadors for His ministry to the world.

The reason why God doesn't give physical healing to all people or make everyone millionaires/have worldly prosperity is because that isn't God's plan for His elect.

He has a message to give to the world and His messanger will be treated worst than slaves, beaten, ridiculed and left homeless at times in this world.

Jesus warned of this but WOF teachers FALSELY claim that God promises people material wealth and no troubles, but the Bible never does promise that in this life. Only in the world to come. We are not home yet, we are strangers in this land making our way back home to our King.

You are entitled to your own opinion. Personally I believe God wants us well and healthy and that He blesses us to be a blessing to others in the world so that they can see His grace and love towards them. The millionaire stuff is nonsense. God promises us to be richly supplied so that we can bless others.

I have never heard of this "no trouble" stuff. Jesus said in the world you will have tribulations but be of good cheer for I have overcome the world.

Yeah, & we're still waiting for you to say something to G777 about his redefining of terms.

Not holding my breath, though.

That good. You can stop holding it and re-read this page of the conversation. It's when I actually took the time to read the article G777 posted and have two points I found as unbiblical.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-368.html

****I still wonder why I am bothering to address you.***

 

[Ariel82]

David and the sword in his house all his days, and the obvious physical ailments mentioned in the Psalms?

The Corinthian brother cut lose for the destruction of the flesh?

The words of Jesus concerning all perishing in like manner if they did not repent?

The Corinthian brothers and sister who "fell asleep" for their corruption concerning the Lord's supper?

Peter said he walks around seeking whom he may devour.....just saying...he cannot have your eternally sealed spirit, but if allowed he can ruin your testimony and life.....

We should preach the WHOLE gospel...not only,that Jesus died on the cross for our sins but also that he Rose again and sent His Holy spirit to teach us how to live godly lives,

Identified as the whole council of God.....the "meat and potatoes" as well as the milk........

Here you go Peter...maybe rereading what he posted might give you a better idea of what Dcon believes?

 

[PeterJens]

I have also told Peter that Dcon and EG don't teach a lawless, easy believism doctrine, but he doesn't listen either.

Ariel, on EG - in theory he believes almost the same as me, except he is the mirror
of me on calvanistic/Amenian positions approx.

Dcon I do not know about because I do not read enough of the exchanges, not enough time.
He just rubbishes everything I contribute. They hated my point about our response to Christ
is part of salvation, or else salvation is imposed and not accepted.

It is always hard to leave the confined structures of theology and express faith with differing
words and perspectives.

 

[Ariel82]

EG isnt a Calvinist. I don't know Dcon's position on election.

Both believe that salvation is by Faith in JESUS Christ alone and that after being saved the Holy Spirit will lead people into producing good fruit and good works.

Which is why they and others find common ground to stand upon in this thread.

The major question is where do you stand? Upon what/who is the foundation of your faith laid?

 

[PeterJens]

Here you go Peter...maybe rereading what he posted might give you a better idea of what Dcon believes?

So the 3 quote appear to show this about dc

1. Judgement of God on the people of God.
2. Satan cannot take your salvation away
3. dc agrees with g7's gospel

Not much progress then.

 

[PeterJens]

EG isnt a Calvinist. I don't know Dcon's position on election.

Both believe that salvation is by Faith in JESUS Christ alone and that after being saved the Holy Spirit will lead people into producing good fruit and good works.

Which is why they and others find common ground to stand upon in this thread.

The major question is where do you stand? Upon what/who is the foundation of your faith laid?

Ariel, In discussion on the 5 points of calvanism, and the 5 points of armenism he agreed with the
points I did not. I agree with a couple in each. I think this is very common. It was interesting that he
held to the opposite set than I did. So in terms of election I am more calvanist, in terms of losing
salvation I am more armenian. Many are choice in election but security in salvation. So it is not
surprising we disagree, because though the basics are the same how it works out is different.

It highlights that differences can be hidden in the detail, lol.

 

[PeterJens]

In other words...you are too busy defending yourself to actually hear what he says he believes?

I obviously share from my perspective and I will endeavour to grasp where they
stand if they actually explain it. Many do not.

I do not have an obligation to hunt out others positions if the are actively obscure.
It is up to them to bring it to the table. And I will listen to anyone, if they want to talk.

I have noticed many are so cautious they dare not actually state what it is probably they
know it will not stand up to inspection.

 

[Ariel82]

Do you agree or disagree with this statement PeterJens?

"We should preach the WHOLE gospel...not only,that Jesus died on the cross for our sins but also that he Rose again and sent His Holy spirit to teach us how to live godly lives"

The statement above was not made by G777, though he says he agrees with it.

 

[Ariel82]

How can you hold to Calvinist election and still believe you lose your salvation? The two are incompatible. Which implies you don't know what Calvinist teach about election.

 

[PeterJens]

EG isnt a Calvinist. I don't know Dcon's position on election.

Both believe that salvation is by Faith in JESUS Christ alone and that after being saved the Holy Spirit will lead people into producing good fruit and good works.

Which is why they and others find common ground to stand upon in this thread.

The major question is where do you stand? Upon what/who is the foundation of your faith laid?

The foundation of my faith in Jesus and the cross. I have said this many times, so why is this a
question?

Imagine you are going on a perilous journey across a very dangerous mountain area.
You are going with a guide who has done this route before. Your life is literally in their hands.
Now if you do not go with them, you will never get there and there is no other guide who can
take you where you need to go.

Now some say you can agree with the guide and trust them fully and never travel and you will
arrive. Others say you can take any path you like because all paths lead to the same place,
you just need to first talk to the guide first.

Now funnily the only way of getting there is trusting the guide and following His path.
Funny that, how 100% faith in the guide means you go with Him.