The finished work of the cross ?
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yeah i see much more as you are saying here, i believe that the cross is a call for repentance, and obedience with all of the heart. in that way its sufficient, if we take it to heart and follow the gospel. thanks for the input i couldnt make anything out really of most of the other comments. which is why i asked in the op for the scriptures that support the "rest in the finished work, do nothing or you are trying to save yourself" stuff that seems so popular.
i see much more what you are saying here. Thanks for the input, God bless
Honestly my Faith is in Gods Word. not in the cross But In Jesus Christ. because to me, its pretty clear that God does His work through His word. so my faith is in His word, the Word of Jesus Christ, the gospel. this includes what He did on the cross. I guess im asking here, where is the doctrine that we just only accept the scriptures about Gods sacrifice and forget all He says about what were supposed to do ?
im honestly wondering if ive missed something.
yeah salvation by Grace through faith. <<< can you explain that statement and then incluse the next verse in there being " we are Gods workmanship created to do the good works set forth by God?
honestly im trying to understand How the cross means we dont do the things Jesus taught. isnt the point of the cross to ultimately send the holy spirit into our hearts which that seems as though it would make a person able, being impowered by the spirit of God Like Jesus was, and then the apostles were. it seems to me were supposed to walk in the spirit doing the things were commanded to do, because we now have the HOLY spirit? but it seems so many take receiving the spirit, to mean do nothing its already been done. im just really looking for someone who understands the popular doctrine ofrest dont work, someone willing to use scriptural context and then take the time to explain a bit without straying from the word of God.
im not sure ive said i have faith in my own work, or if ive heard anyone else claim that. what is faith to you? sorry so many words here its just i never really understand what people are saying about this idea of resting in the finished work of the cross. ill admit i sure do not understand it thus this post here.
im honestly wondering if ive missed something.
yeah salvation by Grace through faith. <<< can you explain that statement and then incluse the next verse in there being " we are Gods workmanship created to do the good works set forth by God?
honestly im trying to understand How the cross means we dont do the things Jesus taught. isnt the point of the cross to ultimately send the holy spirit into our hearts which that seems as though it would make a person able, being impowered by the spirit of God Like Jesus was, and then the apostles were. it seems to me were supposed to walk in the spirit doing the things were commanded to do, because we now have the HOLY spirit? but it seems so many take receiving the spirit, to mean do nothing its already been done. im just really looking for someone who understands the popular doctrine ofrest dont work, someone willing to use scriptural context and then take the time to explain a bit without straying from the word of God.
im not sure ive said i have faith in my own work, or if ive heard anyone else claim that. what is faith to you? sorry so many words here its just i never really understand what people are saying about this idea of resting in the finished work of the cross. ill admit i sure do not understand it thus this post here.
i understand some of what yu are saying and its more like i have always seen the "cross"
matthew 16:From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
to me this isnt saying its all finished, but more " follow my example"
im trying to grasp what so many seem to have found, because i dont want to be missing something important. im just kind of wondering How Jesus death cancels out all he said i guess....
matthew 16:From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
to me this isnt saying its all finished, but more " follow my example"
im trying to grasp what so many seem to have found, because i dont want to be missing something important. im just kind of wondering How Jesus death cancels out all he said i guess....
Does not 1 Cor 15.54-57 and Romans 6 tell us SIN is defeated at resurrection and not the cross?
[SUP]54 [/SUP]But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. [SUP]55 [/SUP]O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” [SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; [SUP]57 [/SUP]but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
The shed blood of Christ at the cross paid for your deliverance from the powers of darkness in full and for the forgiveness of your SIN.
Likewise, without the death of Christ we would be able to die with him.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. [SUP]55 [/SUP]O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” [SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; [SUP]57 [/SUP]but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
The shed blood of Christ at the cross paid for your deliverance from the powers of darkness in full and for the forgiveness of your SIN.
Likewise, without the death of Christ we would be able to die with him.
Many will disagree wiht me here, but the call tp pick up the cross and follow me is not at all about daily crucifying ourselves.
It is about divine destiny to carry out the divine purpose God has for your life by being 100% submitted to that plan. For example: A Pastor carries the cross of his church, which is his divine destiny. A hair dresser may have a ministry in her salon.
Jesus divine destiny was the cross.
We know that the disciples did not carry around real crosses while following Jesus, so we know this was figurative language, which means sacrifice yourself, including all your wants, desires, jobs, everything and forsake those things and pick up the cross of your divine purpose and follow me
It is about divine destiny to carry out the divine purpose God has for your life by being 100% submitted to that plan. For example: A Pastor carries the cross of his church, which is his divine destiny. A hair dresser may have a ministry in her salon.
Jesus divine destiny was the cross.
We know that the disciples did not carry around real crosses while following Jesus, so we know this was figurative language, which means sacrifice yourself, including all your wants, desires, jobs, everything and forsake those things and pick up the cross of your divine purpose and follow me
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lolo yeah i understand the soiritual nature of His words 
and actually see it as a call to follow the gospel because the gospel teaches us to lay down our selfish desires, and to Love others as He Loved us. which i find to be where the circumcision of the heart comes in.
I agree that people have ministries no matter where they are in Life, often the things that speak Loudest are the way we treat other people. which is again what Jesus is teaching us to do, to Love others Gods way.
anyways thanks for the input and God bless
and actually see it as a call to follow the gospel because the gospel teaches us to lay down our selfish desires, and to Love others as He Loved us. which i find to be where the circumcision of the heart comes in. I agree that people have ministries no matter where they are in Life, often the things that speak Loudest are the way we treat other people. which is again what Jesus is teaching us to do, to Love others Gods way.
anyways thanks for the input and God bless
Everything bolded and underlined.......is...
a. False or
b. Out of context to prove an invalid point
Originally Posted by OneFaith
Christianity is about taking up our cross daily and following Jesus Christ. Jesus died once for all- all in the past who obeyed God, and all in the future who would obey God. Their obedience didn't earn Christ's blood (which is grace), but the obedient are the group of people He chooses to give that gift to.
What was finished on the cross was Christ's part- to perfectly complete the Old (physical covenant) law, and nail it to the cross. And to purchase His church (spiritual covenant) with His blood. And to provide the opportunity for all to be saved. (Whosoever will). This was His part. His part does not leave us with no part.
Once saved we need to remain saved. Christ's blood only covers us if we are trying not to sin. But the Bible says "If we sin willfully thereno longer remains a sacrifice for our sins." (No longer means it once genuinely did). If we sin willfully we are no longer in Christ, no longer have a scape goat, and only those in Christ will be saved. If you are in Christ all your sins are washed away, but we must obey God continuously until we die.
If we leave God by sinning willfully, we are as the prodigal son. If we come back to the Father before we die, we will be back to a saved state of being. When the prodigal returned to his father, his father said "My son was dead, but now he is alive." The son did not die physically- so this is speaking of spiritual death and spiritual life.
a. False or
b. Out of context to prove an invalid point
Originally Posted by OneFaith
What was finished on the cross was Christ's part- to perfectly complete the Old (physical covenant) law, and nail it to the cross. And to purchase His church (spiritual covenant) with His blood. And to provide the opportunity for all to be saved. (Whosoever will). This was His part. His part does not leave us with no part.
Once saved we need to remain saved. Christ's blood only covers us if we are trying not to sin. But the Bible says "If we sin willfully thereno longer remains a sacrifice for our sins." (No longer means it once genuinely did). If we sin willfully we are no longer in Christ, no longer have a scape goat, and only those in Christ will be saved. If you are in Christ all your sins are washed away, but we must obey God continuously until we die.
If we leave God by sinning willfully, we are as the prodigal son. If we come back to the Father before we die, we will be back to a saved state of being. When the prodigal returned to his father, his father said "My son was dead, but now he is alive." The son did not die physically- so this is speaking of spiritual death and spiritual life.
How I see the finished work of Jesus and our life then..is that God gave His Son to rescue the world from Adams fall, which happened because of listening to lies of the enemy.
Being then restored...we are in a process of overcoming gods that we put our trust in other than Father and His plan.
All of us will have things rise up in life (mountains) that we learn then how to "toss into the sea". We might not think of these things as idols...but they are. Most come from "lust"..wanting what is forbidden. But, others from other sources than God.
Being then restored...we are in a process of overcoming gods that we put our trust in other than Father and His plan.
All of us will have things rise up in life (mountains) that we learn then how to "toss into the sea". We might not think of these things as idols...but they are. Most come from "lust"..wanting what is forbidden. But, others from other sources than God.
Everything bolded and underlined.......is...
a. False or
b. Out of context to prove an invalid point
Originally Posted by OneFaith
Christianity is about taking up our cross daily and following Jesus Christ. Jesus died once for all- all in the past who obeyed God, and all in the future who would obey God. Their obedience didn't earn Christ's blood (which is grace), but the obedient are the group of people He chooses to give that gift to.
What was finished on the cross was Christ's part- to perfectly complete the Old (physical covenant) law, and nail it to the cross. And to purchase His church (spiritual covenant) with His blood. And to provide the opportunity for all to be saved. (Whosoever will). This was His part. His part does not leave us with no part.
Once saved we need to remain saved. Christ's blood only covers us if we are trying not to sin. But the Bible says "If we sin willfully thereno longer remains a sacrifice for our sins." (No longer means it once genuinely did). If we sin willfully we are no longer in Christ, no longer have a scape goat, and only those in Christ will be saved. If you are in Christ all your sins are washed away, but we must obey God continuously until we die.
If we leave God by sinning willfully, we are as the prodigal son. If we come back to the Father before we die, we will be back to a saved state of being. When the prodigal returned to his father, his father said "My son was dead, but now he is alive." The son did not die physically- so this is speaking of spiritual death and spiritual life.
a. False or
b. Out of context to prove an invalid point
Originally Posted by OneFaith
What was finished on the cross was Christ's part- to perfectly complete the Old (physical covenant) law, and nail it to the cross. And to purchase His church (spiritual covenant) with His blood. And to provide the opportunity for all to be saved. (Whosoever will). This was His part. His part does not leave us with no part.
Once saved we need to remain saved. Christ's blood only covers us if we are trying not to sin. But the Bible says "If we sin willfully thereno longer remains a sacrifice for our sins." (No longer means it once genuinely did). If we sin willfully we are no longer in Christ, no longer have a scape goat, and only those in Christ will be saved. If you are in Christ all your sins are washed away, but we must obey God continuously until we die.
If we leave God by sinning willfully, we are as the prodigal son. If we come back to the Father before we die, we will be back to a saved state of being. When the prodigal returned to his father, his father said "My son was dead, but now he is alive." The son did not die physically- so this is speaking of spiritual death and spiritual life.
talk about easy believing gospel....you preach it bro and in spades.
I believe this about the "carry our crosses" when Jesus was talking to His disciples at the time.
How can we die to our self if we have already died in Christ on the cross with Him? How many times did Christ die on the cross? In like manner we too have died with Christ. Romans 6:5
Religion actually has that backwards - we need to live to our true selves in Christ now because we have been raised from the dead.
"For we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God now". Col.3:3
Luke 9:22-25 Take up your cross daily and follow Me. ( Some manuscripts do not have "daily" in Luke 9 as it is also not in Matthew's account ) In context Jesus is talking about going to the Cross and being raised up again (Luke 9:22 ).
How do we follow Jesus? What was He really saying to His disciples at the time? We too need to "follow Jesus" to the cross because we need to die and to be raised up with Him to newness of life.
We lost our life when we received Christ when we heard the message of Christ. If we just preached what happened to the believer when he came to Christ and that we became a new creation in Him - that would stop a lot of religious striving and than allow the grace of God to transforms us outwardly and renew our minds to reflect who we truly are now in Christ.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I am crucified with Christ = in the Greek is the perfect tense - passive voice construction.
perfect = The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present time. It is continuously happening in the present.
passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it
Without a doubt this verse says that we have died with Christ from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on us....not something we did.
Now we reckon ourselves to be dead to sin and alive to God. In other words - agree with what the finished work of Christ has done for us.
Romans 6:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
If we would preach and teach about what happened to us in Christ now that we are a new creation - then His life would shine form and reflect the grace and love of Christ in us to a hurt and dying world. As we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit.
Preach Christ and Him crucified because in that - we too were crucified with Him. We need our minds renewed to the truths of the real gospel of the grace of Christ so that we can grow up in Him.
How can we die to our self if we have already died in Christ on the cross with Him? How many times did Christ die on the cross? In like manner we too have died with Christ. Romans 6:5
Religion actually has that backwards - we need to live to our true selves in Christ now because we have been raised from the dead.
"For we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God now". Col.3:3
Luke 9:22-25 Take up your cross daily and follow Me. ( Some manuscripts do not have "daily" in Luke 9 as it is also not in Matthew's account ) In context Jesus is talking about going to the Cross and being raised up again (Luke 9:22 ).
How do we follow Jesus? What was He really saying to His disciples at the time? We too need to "follow Jesus" to the cross because we need to die and to be raised up with Him to newness of life.
We lost our life when we received Christ when we heard the message of Christ. If we just preached what happened to the believer when he came to Christ and that we became a new creation in Him - that would stop a lot of religious striving and than allow the grace of God to transforms us outwardly and renew our minds to reflect who we truly are now in Christ.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I am crucified with Christ = in the Greek is the perfect tense - passive voice construction.
perfect = The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present time. It is continuously happening in the present.
passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it
Without a doubt this verse says that we have died with Christ from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on us....not something we did.
Now we reckon ourselves to be dead to sin and alive to God. In other words - agree with what the finished work of Christ has done for us.
Romans 6:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
If we would preach and teach about what happened to us in Christ now that we are a new creation - then His life would shine form and reflect the grace and love of Christ in us to a hurt and dying world. As we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit.
Preach Christ and Him crucified because in that - we too were crucified with Him. We need our minds renewed to the truths of the real gospel of the grace of Christ so that we can grow up in Him.
I believe the Bible says our personal faith is required to come to Jesus,.
DC says no personal faith is needed, because saving faith is not mans part of salvation it is Jesus Christ' part and his faith and it also a gift of faith given to us as well as the gift of salvation.
He is saying out loud man has no part in Salvation at all, even exercising personal saving faith in getting saved is a work as far as he is concerned.
DC says no personal faith is needed, because saving faith is not mans part of salvation it is Jesus Christ' part and his faith and it also a gift of faith given to us as well as the gift of salvation.
He is saying out loud man has no part in Salvation at all, even exercising personal saving faith in getting saved is a work as far as he is concerned.