The finished work of the cross ?

[Meggido]

Don't even address me with your accusatory lies and false diatribe.....the only thing I stand against is a false pseudo salvation of faith plus works to gain or keep it....so keep lying and keep making the Proverbs 6 list and see how that works out for the salvation that you work for

Here is proof you do not believe in personal faith is needed for salvation. you posted it in Not by works and Grace 101. You elevate Faith as a greater gift than Love. WHo is lying and defending now?

That not of yourselves is grammatically directed at the faith that saves.......

Have been saved out of faith, and this NOT OF YOURSELVES, of GOD the gift (is) Literal translation...

IT is the gift of FAITH that has led to one's "past tense" salvation!

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Christ is the SOURCE of OUR FAITH

Keeping our eyes on Jesus, the source and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that lay before Him endured a cross and despised the shame and has sat down at the right hand of God's throne.

fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

PROFOUND TRUTHS denied and swept under the rug by ALL who say salvation can be lost....

a. JESUS is the Source of the faith that SAVES US
b. JESUS is the FINISHER of the faith that SAVES US
c. THE FAITH that JESUS STARTS and FININISHES WITH US is A GIFT
d. IT IS THIS GIFT OF FAITH that SAVED US

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

ἐν πίστει ζῶ τῇ τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ

in flesh through faith I live that OF THE SON OF GOD

Jesus is the source, the beginner and finisher of our faith, of the FAITH that saves which is a GIFT

HIS FAITH gifted to US<--he starts, sustains and finishes it! FROM FAITH to FAITH the JUST shall LIVE by the FAITH....THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD!

TO LOSE FAITH and SALVATION JESUS MUST FAIL in his EFFORT that HE BEGAN and that which HE FINISHES

The scriptures are clear!

 

[Meggido]

Simple....he fails to read and comprehend English because he is too busy bloviating.....and accusing me of something I do not espouse.....

a. JESUS is the Source of the faith that SAVES US
b. JESUS is the FINISHER of the faith that SAVES US
c. THE FAITH that JESUS STARTS and FININISHES WITH US is A GIFT
d. IT IS THIS GIFT OF FAITH that SAVED US

If this is not faith of Jesus only saves you what is it?


Whats next DC, you posting 2 TIm 2.13 to try to prove your straw man out?

You totally push and sell the gospel, that no saving faith comes from man at al...=because you view even exercising simple faith is a work that takes away form what Jesus did, yet God said without faith you cannot what!?!?!? Please him...

 

[Magenta]

Here is proof you do not believe in personal faith is needed for salvation. you posted it in Not by works and Grace 101. You elevate Faith as a greater gift than Love. WHo is lying and defending now?

I see DC saying personal faith is required and that charity (love) is the greatest... how can you miss that?

 

[Meggido]

I see DC saying personal faith is required and that charity (love) is the greatest... how can you miss that?

a. JESUS is the Source of the faith that SAVES US
b. JESUS is the FINISHER of the faith that SAVES US
c. THE FAITH that JESUS STARTS and FININISHES WITH US is A GIFT
d. IT IS THIS GIFT OF FAITH that SAVED US

does this look like personal faith to you?

 

[followjesus]

Just before Jesus gave up His spirit to His heavenly father He said "It is finished."

what is finished though? isnt He referring to the fulfilling of the Mosaic Law there? as well as His suffering?

 

[followjesus]

Amen.....Christ is the Alpha and Omega. - the Aleph and Tav of all things.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

In Him we have it all - and it is according to the riches of His grace.

Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

So, we boast in the Lord's finished work on the cross and resurrection to obtain eternal redemption for all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

so do the alpha and omega words apply forever as He said they do?

matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


it seems as if total dependance on Jesus is what this doctrine is teaching, wheres the part where His words change? and the great commission that came after His resurrection kind of says this

matthew 28:17-20 "And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


doesnt this kind of fit with His words not changing or passing away? because He says " Go teach them, everything i taught you" and then Knowing this

Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"

and this

matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

it seems like the things Jesus taught His disciples, are the gospel, along with His death and resurrection, which is why i still dont really see the finished works doctrine about total reliance on His death, but rather His crucifixion as a part of it, and total reliance on the gospel that He preached and then sent His disciples to preach to the world. does the finished work include accepting Gods word? or do we Just ignore the Words and teachings of Jesus, and rely on the terrible event of Our saviors suffering?

 

[valiant]

a. JESUS is the Source of the faith that SAVES US
b. JESUS is the FINISHER of the faith that SAVES US
c. THE FAITH that JESUS STARTS and FININISHES WITH US is A GIFT
d. IT IS THIS GIFT OF FAITH that SAVED US

does this look like personal faith to you?

if it is not personal faith, what good is it?

 

[valiant]

I believe the Bible says our personal faith is required to come to Jesus,.

DC says no personal faith is needed, because saving faith is not mans part of salvation it is Jesus Christ' part and his faith and it also a gift of faith given to us as well as the gift of salvation.

He is saying out loud man has no part in Salvation at all, even exercising personal saving faith in getting saved is a work as far as he is concerned.

It is a God-given personal faith. Our feeble faith wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[followjesus]

I believe the Bible says our personal faith is required to come to Jesus,.

DC says no personal faith is needed, because saving faith is not mans part of salvation it is Jesus Christ' part and his faith and it also a gift of faith given to us as well as the gift of salvation.

He is saying out loud man has no part in Salvation at all, even exercising personal saving faith in getting saved is a work as far as he is concerned.

faith is given through the Word though. through Hearing the Word of God, so it isnt something that comes from us first, its more of accepting the word that produces faith, from Glory to Glory. God has always done His work by speaking it, look at creation. so if faith comes by Hearing, and Hearing By the word of God, then its from Him to begin with. we just need to accepot the word as is, and it will work in us as the word says

hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


john 3:5-6 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit
john 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

james 1:18 "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


it seems to me as if the words of Jesus are where our faith comes from and has to remain and this BECAUSE He suffered and died for us. seems as if the spirit comes through the word, the Life comes through the word, the birth comes through the Word, the Light is the word, the freedom comes through the Word, by the will of God, which is expressed to us by His Word Our part would be to Believe Jesus because we Believe what He did for us. and if we Believe Jesus, we will learn that doing His word is Our place.

 

[Meggido]

It is a God-given personal faith. Our feeble faith wouldn't stand a chance.

Our feeble faith can be as small as a mustard seed....and yet it can do great things

 

[dcontroversal]

It is a God-given personal faith. Our feeble faith wouldn't stand a chance.

EXACTLY..........GOD GIVEN FAITH...One of the spiritual GIFTS unto man, dealt in measure...FAITH to FAITH.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Here is proof you do not believe in personal faith is needed for salvation. you posted it in Not by works and Grace 101. You elevate Faith as a greater gift than Love. WHo is lying and defending now?

Copy and post it again.....each time you do you actually post the truth that I presented....thanks...her one more time maybe your will get it....


That not of yourselves is grammatically directed at the faith that saves.......

Have been saved out of faith, and this NOT OF YOURSELVES, of GOD the gift (is) Literal translation...

IT is the gift of FAITH that has led to one's "past tense" salvation!

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Christ is the SOURCE of OUR FAITH

Keeping our eyes on Jesus, the source and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that lay before Him endured a cross and despised the shame and has sat down at the right hand of God's throne.

fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

PROFOUND TRUTHS denied and swept under the rug by ALL who say salvation can be lost....

a. JESUS is the Source of the faith that SAVES US
b. JESUS is the FINISHER of the faith that SAVES US
c. THE FAITH that JESUS STARTS and FININISHES WITH US is A GIFT
d. IT IS THIS GIFT OF FAITH that SAVED US

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

ἐν πίστει ζῶ τῇ τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ

in flesh through faith I live that OF THE SON OF GOD

Jesus is the source, the beginner and finisher of our faith, of the FAITH that saves which is a GIFT

HIS FAITH gifted to US<--he starts, sustains and finishes it! FROM FAITH to FAITH the JUST shall LIVE by the FAITH....THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD!

TO LOSE FAITH and SALVATION JESUS MUST FAIL in his EFFORT that HE BEGAN and that which HE FINISHES

The scriptures are clear!

 

[dcontroversal]

I see DC saying personal faith is required and that charity (love) is the greatest... how can you miss that?

EXACTLY.....he cannot get past his own mind which rejects the scriptures posted and the correct grammatically application of the faith that saves and it's biblical source........FAITH unto FAITH also alludes his mind.......for some odd reason....such a simple truth<--should be easy to see for one who claims Christ

 

[followjesus]

But Paul in Rm 6 says 'we have died'. It was His work not ours. He does not say we must die. Being in Christ makes it certain.

he does say we must die....

colossians 3: 5-10 "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[SUP]b[/SUP]7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.


"you must Because" its really a common teaching in pauls epistles. teaching us that we are to follow Jesus and put to death our flesh nature. and follow the spirit which is what puts us in Christ

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

seems as if pauls preaching to repent of the sins we used to live in before accepting Jesus, not Jesus repented for you

romans 2:7 "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Galatians 6:7-9 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.


romans 8:12-13 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


seems theres alot to do just from these few examples, cant see how paul is teaching its already done, and then contradicting Himself by instructing and warnings.....seems were called to out to death the deeds of sin, the deeds of the Flesh which comes from Jesus teaching " deny yourself, pick up your cross daily and follow me"

i dont see, rest, and ill carry your cross and force you to follow me, seems pauls writings can be easily misconstrued ....as can other scripture

 

[followjesus]

How I see the finished work of Jesus and our life then..is that God gave His Son to rescue the world from Adams fall, which happened because of listening to lies of the enemy.

Being then restored...we are in a process of overcoming gods that we put our trust in other than Father and His plan.

All of us will have things rise up in life (mountains) that we learn then how to "toss into the sea". We might not think of these things as idols...but they are. Most come from "lust"..wanting what is forbidden. But, others from other sources than God.

would you say now that Jesus doed for us to reconcile us, we have a part in it ? that we are instructed very clearly on what to actually do now that weve been reconciled? our part Being faith, Hearing and obeying the gospel?

 

[followjesus]

Sorry for any misunderstandings I may have to your thread in advance as I am not sure if I understand what your question is exactly.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2Tim 3:16)

Also the Greek word for the English words "fulfilled and finished" is the same word (G4134)
ληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

There are many scriptures in the Word of God in the old testament prophecies about the work of Jesus that were fulfilled at the cross (see all Isa 53, Much of the ceremonial laws feasts days etc that pointed to Jesus see Leviticus 16-19)

""He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

""Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

""But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

""All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opens not his mouth."

"He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken."

"And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death;8 because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."

"Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isa 53:1-12)

"I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. (John 3:18)

"After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst." (John 19:28) etc etc etc....

So in one sense fulfilled or finished can refer to the fulfillment of a prophecy of scripture of the work of Christ and His life as our Savior, our great sacrifice for our sins as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world prior to moving into the Heavenly Sanctuary as our great High Priest and in another sense the finishing of the first phase of His work here on earth as our sacrifice for sin.

"The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)

"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." (Heb 4:14; see also Heb 9:1-14 etc)

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." (John 19:30)

Hope this helps and is what you are asking? God bless you!

no worries about any misunderstandings, and i appreciate the scriptures. I agree also that all scripture is useful.


knowing that, isnt there also alot of things we are taught to do having been reconciled by His death? such as obey the Lords Word, having been unable before, but now being ,made able through Jesus Life death and resurrection ?

because i do see probably more instruction of what we are supposed to do now, in response to His suffering. it seems as if the gospel of Jesus Christ riegns above the rest, or in other words it has to be our foundation meaning the things He taught, and then sent His disciples to go teach the world. there are many things to do, is what im understanding from scripture. I take that Jesus already did His part and thats sufficient, now my part is to do what He says to do, and reap the promise He gave according to those words. am i thinking wrong here?

 

[UnderGrace]

Sadly this will lead to feelings of guilt, insecurity and condemnation.

Sadly you have missed the Good News of the Gospel.

Sadly you have made the work of Jesus unable to undo what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eve, since we will fail again and again we are actually back where we started

Sadly you have made God's grace (His LOVE) a revolving door of in and out

Thankfully it is not Truth!!!

Christianity is about taking up our cross daily and following Jesus Christ. Jesus died once for all- all in the past who obeyed God, and all in the future who would obey God. Their obedience didn't earn Christ's blood (which is grace), but the obedient are the group of people He chooses to give that gift to.

What was finished on the cross was Christ's part- to perfectly complete the Old Law (physical covenant), and nail it to the cross. And to purchase His church (spiritual covenant) with His blood. And to provide the opportunity for all to be saved. (Whosoever will). This was His part. His part does not leave us with no part.

Once saved we need to remain saved. Christ's blood only covers us if we are trying not to sin. But the Bible says "If we sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for our sins." (No longer means it once genuinely did). If we sin willfully we are no longer in Christ, no longer have a scape goat, and only those in Christ will be saved. If you are in Christ all your sins are washed away, but we must obey God continuously until we die.

If we leave God by sinning willfully, we are as the prodigal son. If we come back to the Father before we die, we will be back to a saved state of being. When the prodigal returned to his father, his father said "My son was dead, but now he is alive." The son did not die physically- so this is speaking of spiritual death and spiritual life.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

i dont see anywhere in the bible talking about finished work on the cross????????????????? why do we use this language!!!!!!!!!!!

We have to understand the basics,right?Whether you find that wording In the bible or not,finished work on the cross simply means the law WAS fulfilled,the only way for man to have a relationship with GOD was to fulfill HIS perfect standard of righteousness perfectly

And all men were coming short, JESUS had mercy on those who broke the law and the law demanded death and JESUS satisfied the demand of the law by death by way of a cross.

Finished work on the cross.

 

[stonesoffire]

would you say now that Jesus doed for us to reconcile us, we have a part in it ? that we are instructed very clearly on what to actually do now that weve been reconciled? our part Being faith, Hearing and obeying the gospel?

Of course we have a part. He leads us by His Voice (Spirit) within and sometimes by His written "rhema" Word. We believe Him. If He says to do something...we do. It's the working out of our salvation.

We've already obeyed the gospel when we are born again...and Jesus said to wait for His Spirit...so we are also baptized in Holy Spirit.

A lot of people disobey the second part.

 

[LoveGodForever]

no worries about any misunderstandings, and i appreciate the scriptures. I agree also that all scripture is useful.


knowing that, isnt there also alot of things we are taught to do having been reconciled by His death? such as obey the Lords Word, having been unable before, but now being ,made able through Jesus Life death and resurrection ?

because i do see probably more instruction of what we are supposed to do now, in response to His suffering. it seems as if the gospel of Jesus Christ riegns above the rest, or in other words it has to be our foundation meaning the things He taught, and then sent His disciples to go teach the world. there are many things to do, is what im understanding from scripture. I take that Jesus already did His part and thats sufficient, now my part is to do what He says to do, and reap the promise He gave according to those words. am i thinking wrong here?

I believe our part is to......

"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. (Isa 55:6-7)

"Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." (Matt 6:33)

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jer 29:13)

We find him in His Word because He is the Word (John 1:1-5)

As you have faith in God's Word, Put your foot in the Jordan and watch the waters part. Our focus is not on doing but believing God. It is God who changes our lives as we have faith in His promises.

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2Pet 1:4)

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1John 1:9)