Born Again Vs. Saved

[KJV1611]

I believe Paul was speaking in a metaphor, he was trying to get those particular Christians back where they were suppose to be in Christ.

What makes verse 19 a metaphor?

 

[preacher4truth]

I think maybe you should take a break... you seem to be getting uptight.

Nope, not even close. It appears you were uptight then blamed your typos on bluetooth. Of course, you know, you typed perfectly, it was your keyboard that betrayed you. It's funny how you know you typed perfectly, and knew your keyboard made the errors. LOL!!!!!!!!

 

[KJV1611]

I've already offered that argument, but you'll have none of it. Your literalism has blinded you. Let's use your literalism in Romans 2. Go read it. Take it literally, don't see it as an argument from Paul, take it literally. When you do that you'll be preaching people into heaven by their works, and no need of Christ to die for them.

You don't use critical thinking because of your literalism, which you cannot apply consistently across Scripture as a hermeneutical principle of interpretation.

This shows the fallacy of how you interpret and that since it is inconsistent it cannot be true.

But, you won't care about this, you'll carry on in error and will refuse to see it and accept it.

I beleive the bible literally for exactly what it says. If Paul says I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, then that's what I believe. They were saved but Christ had not been formed in them yet.

 

[KJV1611]

Nope, not even close. It appears you were uptight then blamed your typos on bluetooth. Of course, you know, you typed perfectly, it was your keyboard that betrayed you. It's funny how you know you typed perfectly, and knew your keyboard made the errors. LOL!!!!!!!!

I would ask that you please stop with your personal attacks on me. I'm asking nicely.

 

[limey410]

Doesn't 1 Peter 1:23 say that the incorruptible seed IS the word of God? incorruptible seed is the descriptor of the word of God.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I disagree, the word of God is the definer of the incorruptible seed. The emphasis is on corruptible and incorruptible seed.

 

[KJV1611]

I disagree, the word of God is the definer of the incorruptible seed. The emphasis is on corruptible and incorruptible seed.

We disagree on that one and that's ok. There's more to get into in this discussion.

 

[preacher4truth]

I would ask that you please stop with your personal attacks on me.

You mean like your personal attack calling me uptight prior to my last post? The personal attack you initiated?

That's right. Put an end to your attacks, you do this when your arguments are torn down. Please apologize and admit to this and your errors.

 

[garee]

What is your take on this verse?

Paul is talking to saved Galatians, what does he mean by "until Christ be formed in you"? Is this the second birth?

Galatians 4:19 KJV
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet (given); because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

We should be careful with words added like the word “given”in that verse. Which could mean made manifest…… because Jesus was not yet glorified . In principle from the time they they first believd the hearing of faith they were given a new heart and spirit that would never die but would be risen on he last day.

The saints that were in therir graves clearly had the Spirit of Christ but again it did not become active until he said it s finished the glory appeared the graves were opened

Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what "manner of time" the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

 

[KJV1611]

You mean like your personal attack calling me uptight prior to my last post? The personal attack you began in this dialog?

That's right. Put an end to your attacks, you do this when your arguments are torn down. Please apologize and admit to this and your errors.

Ok, I apoligize. Let's just discuss the topic from here on out.

 

[RickyZ]

I would think the new birth is the beginning of our salvation process. Am interested to see what you have to say.

I would put that the other way, salvation is the beginning of the birthing process.

Not that we can't both be right!

 

[MattforJesus]

Born again is saved,for Jesus said,you must be born again to be able to enter the kingdom of God,which means you are saved.

We are not saved by confessing Christ,and repenting of our sins alone,but when we receive the Spirit,then we are saved,whatever point in time that happens,for some do not receive the Spirit right away,but they will when they have the right perspective of the Christian faith.

 

[KJV1611]

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet (given); because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

We should be careful with words added like the word “given”in that verse. Which could mean made manifest…… because Jesus was not yet glorified . In principle from the time they they first believd the hearing of faith they were given a new heart and spirit that would never die but would be risen on he last day.

The saints that were in therir graves clearly had the Spirit of Christ but again it did not become active until he said it s finished the glory appeared the graves were opened

Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what "manner of time" the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The verse says the Spirit of Christ was in them at that time doesn't it? The Spirit that was IN them TESTIFIED beforehand about the sufferings of Christ. Christ in them spoke through them about himself.

 

[KJV1611]

Born again is saved,for Jesus said,you must be born again to be able to enter the kingdom of God,which means you are saved.

We are not saved by confessing Christ,and repenting of our sins alone,but when we receive the Spirit,then we are saved,whatever point in time that happens,for some do not receive the Spirit right away,but they will when they have the right perspective of the Christian faith.

Which kingdom of heaven do we enter when we are born again, the one on earth or the one where God is?

 

[KJV1611]

Which kingdom of heaven do we enter when we are born again, the one on earth or the one where God is?

To clarify what I mean, below is the kingdom of heaven on earth.

Matthew 13:24-25 KJV
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

 

[preacher4truth]

Ok, I apoligize. Let's just discuss the topic from here on out.

Good. That is what I was doing prior to your "uptight" accusation. I showed how Romans 2 should be considered under your methods and how wrong conclusions would entail as a result. You answer before you have had time to think through the answers provided you. Again, your literalism and inconsistent hermeneutic is leading you astray. Surely you love the Word but you're on the wrong track. You need to see when arguments are being made and then distinguish these from literal interpretations.

 

[graceNpeace]

To clarify what I mean, below is the kingdom of heaven on earth.

Matthew 13:24-25 KJV
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

With respect your confusion is unending.
Parables are NOT literal accounts and to interpret them as such is just totally misunderstanding that purpose of a parable.
A parable is telling a story in easily understandable terms using familiar frames of reference in order to communicate deeper truths.

The example you quote has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a kingdom of Heaven on earth.

 

[Blik]

I would put that the other way, salvation is the beginning of the birthing process.

Not that we can't both be right!

We have scripture explaining to us in the words of the Lord about being born again. We learn from those words and experience what it is speaking of.

We have many words from the Lord about how to live in the world He created here and about many mansions He created for us to go to when we are saved. All these words are blessing us.

We are told to listen to the Lord, not try to intellectualize those words to create interpretations and doctrines but just accept them. Why not obey?

 

[KJV1611]

With respect your confusion is unending.
Parables are NOT literal accounts and to interpret them as such is just totally misunderstanding that purpose of a parable.
A parable is telling a story in easily understandable terms using familiar frames of reference in order to communicate deeper truths.

The example you quote has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a kingdom of Heaven on earth.

Explain the parable, what does it mean.

 

[KJV1611]

With respect your confusion is unending.
Parables are NOT literal accounts and to interpret them as such is just totally misunderstanding that purpose of a parable.
A parable is telling a story in easily understandable terms using familiar frames of reference in order to communicate deeper truths.

The example you quote has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a kingdom of Heaven on earth.

This is not a parable, where is this kingdom of heaven? Why is violence taking place in the heaven where God is?


Matthew 11:12 KJV
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

 

[MattforJesus]

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When a person receives the Spirit they are born again.

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

When a person receives the Spirit they are saved.