Poll on sickness
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Yes,GOD Is sovereign, I know you are heading towards calvin and I don't know how to refute It anyway.
We live in a fallen world. Adam and Eve sinned, which started the whole world rolling downhill.
For example, my illness is an example of a genetic mutation. The sun's radiation and other things can damage our DNA. It literally breaks genes into pieces. Sometimes those mutuations are fatal, and that is the end. Sometimes the mutations are more subtle, or recessive. So it may not show up for generations. Things like sickle cell anemia or Down's comes to mind. You need to have two people with the recessive gene, and randomly, it is expressed.
I have heard before the flood, there was a canopy of water that protected the earth from excessive radiation. Perhaps that canopy came down, leading to more damage in the bodies of the people who lived then. I'm reading the Books of Moses right now. Reading the genealogies, the life expectancy goes down from a high with Methusaleh of over 900 years. By the time if Abraham something had happened, and he was considered to have lived a long life, dying at age 175. Certainly much longer than today, even with medical help! Accumulated damage obviously was a problem.
I always find it interesting that incest initially was not forbidden by God initially. Abraham married his half sister. Jacob and Isaac also married into the same family, and no apparent mutations. Then suddenly, the Exodus, and God forbids incest. Today, even cousins or second cousins can produce children with terrible expressed recessive mutations. I worked with disabled children in a greenhouse one summer. Two boys had massive facial deformities, and retardation, the parents were 2nd cousins. Three of their
Five children were like this. My MIL came from German villages in the Ukraine. She said the rule was never marry from your own village, and better to marrry a Jew, than a German. In fact, my husband's great grandmother was a Jew, a reflection of trying to allow more diverse genes into the gene pool.
Then there are those pesky sex linked diseases, a result of the inferior Y chromosome. So colour blindness, hemophilia, and diseases like that. Then there are autoimmune diseases like Rheumatoid Arthritis. I have a family history, but I certainly never expected to get it. I was serving God when it struck. I ate extremely well, organic, grow it myself, prepare everything from scratch. Lots of exercise and country living. So not lifestyle, although something certainly triggered it. But the gene was already there.
Then there was my cousin, who got severe RA at age 11/2! Who sinned, Sandra or her parents? Oh, neither!! She got it from both sides - both her grandmothers had it. So, in retrospect, I didn't get it till I was 44! So many good years, a husband, 4 children, my cousin got none of those things. She needs 24/7 care!
I went through great suffering, and depression in the early years of RA. Nothing like seeing your life stolen away to make you want to end it all. But God was totally in control! He didn't cause my disease, neither did Satan, sin, or lifestyle. Just a nasty result of the Fall, and probably the Flood.
I can now honestly praise God for my illness. It was life changing, and God used it for his glory to transform me! Because God uses ALL things together for good!
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28
Further, the Bible is clear that suffering is transformational.
"More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God's love has been poured out through the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5:3-5
This whole Word Faith lie of perfect healing is such a lie from the devil! Certainly, the people living in the 1st century had no expectations of perfect healing. But when they heard that Jesus, the Messiah healed, they raced to see him. Some were looking for signs and wonders. Some were desperate for healing. While others, just wanted to mset the Messiah. This was Jesus ministry, to confirm what was spoken in the prophets!
The worst thing in my life was the condemnation and judgment of 2 Word Faith friends, because I was sick, who were so wrong in their interpretation of the Bible. Then when one claimed healing and died when her breast cancer metastasized, because she refused treatment, I was sad for her, but somewhat vindicated before God. Breast cancer is often related to a faulty gene. Not sin, not lifestyle, not Satan. Just the result of living in a fallen world, far from the perfect creation in these last days!
For example, my illness is an example of a genetic mutation. The sun's radiation and other things can damage our DNA. It literally breaks genes into pieces. Sometimes those mutuations are fatal, and that is the end. Sometimes the mutations are more subtle, or recessive. So it may not show up for generations. Things like sickle cell anemia or Down's comes to mind. You need to have two people with the recessive gene, and randomly, it is expressed.
I have heard before the flood, there was a canopy of water that protected the earth from excessive radiation. Perhaps that canopy came down, leading to more damage in the bodies of the people who lived then. I'm reading the Books of Moses right now. Reading the genealogies, the life expectancy goes down from a high with Methusaleh of over 900 years. By the time if Abraham something had happened, and he was considered to have lived a long life, dying at age 175. Certainly much longer than today, even with medical help! Accumulated damage obviously was a problem.
I always find it interesting that incest initially was not forbidden by God initially. Abraham married his half sister. Jacob and Isaac also married into the same family, and no apparent mutations. Then suddenly, the Exodus, and God forbids incest. Today, even cousins or second cousins can produce children with terrible expressed recessive mutations. I worked with disabled children in a greenhouse one summer. Two boys had massive facial deformities, and retardation, the parents were 2nd cousins. Three of their
Five children were like this. My MIL came from German villages in the Ukraine. She said the rule was never marry from your own village, and better to marrry a Jew, than a German. In fact, my husband's great grandmother was a Jew, a reflection of trying to allow more diverse genes into the gene pool.
Then there are those pesky sex linked diseases, a result of the inferior Y chromosome. So colour blindness, hemophilia, and diseases like that. Then there are autoimmune diseases like Rheumatoid Arthritis. I have a family history, but I certainly never expected to get it. I was serving God when it struck. I ate extremely well, organic, grow it myself, prepare everything from scratch. Lots of exercise and country living. So not lifestyle, although something certainly triggered it. But the gene was already there.
Then there was my cousin, who got severe RA at age 11/2! Who sinned, Sandra or her parents? Oh, neither!! She got it from both sides - both her grandmothers had it. So, in retrospect, I didn't get it till I was 44! So many good years, a husband, 4 children, my cousin got none of those things. She needs 24/7 care!
I went through great suffering, and depression in the early years of RA. Nothing like seeing your life stolen away to make you want to end it all. But God was totally in control! He didn't cause my disease, neither did Satan, sin, or lifestyle. Just a nasty result of the Fall, and probably the Flood.
I can now honestly praise God for my illness. It was life changing, and God used it for his glory to transform me! Because God uses ALL things together for good!
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28
Further, the Bible is clear that suffering is transformational.
"More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God's love has been poured out through the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5:3-5
This whole Word Faith lie of perfect healing is such a lie from the devil! Certainly, the people living in the 1st century had no expectations of perfect healing. But when they heard that Jesus, the Messiah healed, they raced to see him. Some were looking for signs and wonders. Some were desperate for healing. While others, just wanted to mset the Messiah. This was Jesus ministry, to confirm what was spoken in the prophets!
The worst thing in my life was the condemnation and judgment of 2 Word Faith friends, because I was sick, who were so wrong in their interpretation of the Bible. Then when one claimed healing and died when her breast cancer metastasized, because she refused treatment, I was sad for her, but somewhat vindicated before God. Breast cancer is often related to a faulty gene. Not sin, not lifestyle, not Satan. Just the result of living in a fallen world, far from the perfect creation in these last days!
The important thing to remember is that God can heal us. I believe that for the most part God allows the church to go this natural world just like everyone else, that is why the lady who walked with God so closely still came down with a serious disease. God sometimes intervenes and does a miracle, however that is the exception and we don't know why. To make matters worse the person who got healed begins to tell everyone that they can have the same thing and when it does not happen it causes a lot of bad feeling. One time I did not have enough gas to get to work and God supernaturally put gas in my car for a week until I got paid, however it never happened before and it never happened again. I believe in most cases God allows us to experience whatever anyone else would experience going through this natural world...however never give up hope because God can and does do miracles.
D
I have never been in a church that doesn't teach healing. Granted, I have been in churches, and have stuck with churches that don't believe the gifts are for today, however, the gifts they mean are specific. No more future-telling prophecies, no more tongues, and no more apostles. (Which is more of an office than a gift, but the office was a gift, so it fits.) Even when they do not believe in "gifts," they still believe in healing, so they teach it.
My husband has been healed. My husband has not been healed. My husband has been used as the instrument of God for someone else's healing. My husband will not be healed of what is still wrong with him.
I have been healed. I have not been healed. I have been used as the instrument of God for someone else's healing. I probably will not be healed of what is still wrong with me.
18 years of known DDD (Degenerative Disk Disease), and my disk are slowly degenerating more and more. The pinched nerve in my back that started the symptoms (and when they checked my back because of symptoms, they already saw the DDD at work, so that's even older) has been pinched far too long to become unpinched, unless I can live hanging from a ceiling by my ankles for a long time. Arthritis, my spinal column that holds the fluids needed for the back has shrunk enough to squish nerves, and my sacrum is disintegrating. All progressive things.
Can God heal all that? Easily! But let's take DDD alone. The percentage of people with DDD corresponds with age. 30% of all people at age 30 have DDD. Most don't know it. 40% of 40 year olds, 50% of 50 year olds. So I'm 60, which means 60% of people my age have it. Why do you think old people slouch? DDD. It happens. It is a natural outcome of aging, and, apparently, knowing that God can heal, even among those saintly believers, has not slowed down the percentage. Why? Because healing isn't assumed. Healing is a miracle from God. Merely knowing healing still happens doesn't mean it will happen. God is not encumbered by our trust levels in him. If he wants to do a miracle, he doesn't need our permission, nor does he ask for it. (He does asks that we pray, but specifically pray for his will, not our will.) And for those of us who know God can heal, that knowledge does not increase the likelihood of the miracle happening. Nor does it dwindle it from happening.
God is sovereign. We are not.
Also, Jesus did not heal all. There were seven pools of healing in one of the towns Jesus went to. And on the side of one of those pools was a man so sick he went there every day for 38 years. When the pools became turbulent, those who wanted healing flocked into them for the healing, but it was so crowded and he was so disabled, he could never go in. He kept trying for 38 years. Jesus healed him.
That's all. 7 pools, lots of other people flocking into those pools, and Jesus did not heal any of the others.
So please try to stop forcing God's hand on healing. It hasn't worked for you yet. Your message is not one of those chain letters that if you pass around to 10 people by tomorrow you get your genie wish. It is not a jinx on those ten people who have to pass it along to ten others or they get hexed.
Indeed, it is a false gospel, that you try to hook babes with and it is a cruel joke! And it doesn't even make sense. First you say (A) we have to know all about healing, then (B) we have to remove "deeply entrenched teachings," then (C) we have to put away our old ways, then (D) look at the healer, and, viola! After all that work, God may or may not heal us anyway. Your A + B + C + D = Healing formula is nothing but you trying to usurp God's authority.
He is sovereign. We are not!
My husband has been healed. My husband has not been healed. My husband has been used as the instrument of God for someone else's healing. My husband will not be healed of what is still wrong with him.
I have been healed. I have not been healed. I have been used as the instrument of God for someone else's healing. I probably will not be healed of what is still wrong with me.
18 years of known DDD (Degenerative Disk Disease), and my disk are slowly degenerating more and more. The pinched nerve in my back that started the symptoms (and when they checked my back because of symptoms, they already saw the DDD at work, so that's even older) has been pinched far too long to become unpinched, unless I can live hanging from a ceiling by my ankles for a long time. Arthritis, my spinal column that holds the fluids needed for the back has shrunk enough to squish nerves, and my sacrum is disintegrating. All progressive things.
Can God heal all that? Easily! But let's take DDD alone. The percentage of people with DDD corresponds with age. 30% of all people at age 30 have DDD. Most don't know it. 40% of 40 year olds, 50% of 50 year olds. So I'm 60, which means 60% of people my age have it. Why do you think old people slouch? DDD. It happens. It is a natural outcome of aging, and, apparently, knowing that God can heal, even among those saintly believers, has not slowed down the percentage. Why? Because healing isn't assumed. Healing is a miracle from God. Merely knowing healing still happens doesn't mean it will happen. God is not encumbered by our trust levels in him. If he wants to do a miracle, he doesn't need our permission, nor does he ask for it. (He does asks that we pray, but specifically pray for his will, not our will.) And for those of us who know God can heal, that knowledge does not increase the likelihood of the miracle happening. Nor does it dwindle it from happening.
God is sovereign. We are not.
Also, Jesus did not heal all. There were seven pools of healing in one of the towns Jesus went to. And on the side of one of those pools was a man so sick he went there every day for 38 years. When the pools became turbulent, those who wanted healing flocked into them for the healing, but it was so crowded and he was so disabled, he could never go in. He kept trying for 38 years. Jesus healed him.
That's all. 7 pools, lots of other people flocking into those pools, and Jesus did not heal any of the others.
So please try to stop forcing God's hand on healing. It hasn't worked for you yet. Your message is not one of those chain letters that if you pass around to 10 people by tomorrow you get your genie wish. It is not a jinx on those ten people who have to pass it along to ten others or they get hexed.
Indeed, it is a false gospel, that you try to hook babes with and it is a cruel joke! And it doesn't even make sense. First you say (A) we have to know all about healing, then (B) we have to remove "deeply entrenched teachings," then (C) we have to put away our old ways, then (D) look at the healer, and, viola! After all that work, God may or may not heal us anyway. Your A + B + C + D = Healing formula is nothing but you trying to usurp God's authority.
He is sovereign. We are not!
I am sure that if more people practiced the kind of faith that God accepts for healing then the percentage of Christians that are actually beening healed would go up. So I kind of agree that at least part of the problem is lack of faith that God will heal. On the other hand, supernatural health through healing was never given to the church, but the possibility of healing through faith was given to the church, we have stories of devout Christians in the NT who got sick just like everyone else and even died. This picture is in sharp contrast to the supernatural health given to Israel when they left Egypt and not a single sick person was among them(at least 2 million people). It IS kind of perplexing because we do not know for sure that God will heal in a particular circumstances, yet if we do not pray in absolute faith that God will heal the person then it will not work(Jesus personally explained this to me). I wish I had a good answer, I know if I am sick and want to be healed then I want a person who is convinced that God will heal me to pray for me.
Lynn do reformed elders do as James 5.14-15 says they should?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; [SUP]15 [/SUP]and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
I am not justifying Joaniemarie, just asking the question, because in the Reformed churches we have visited, none of James 5 .14-15 ever takes place and when you ask the elders they side step the command
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; [SUP]15 [/SUP]and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
I am not justifying Joaniemarie, just asking the question, because in the Reformed churches we have visited, none of James 5 .14-15 ever takes place and when you ask the elders they side step the command
To me...cults are those that deny the deity of Jesus.
Those who take the ministry as a vocation, IMO, are what you are describing. Offices are called into...they are prophesied over and anointed to take their place.
What does this have to do though with my question to Samuel?
I've never met anyone whose purpose I thought was to steal the souls of men. Have you?
Those who take the ministry as a vocation, IMO, are what you are describing. Offices are called into...they are prophesied over and anointed to take their place.
What does this have to do though with my question to Samuel?
I've never met anyone whose purpose I thought was to steal the souls of men. Have you?