Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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As an observation, the gospel is simple.
Sinners need to repent of sin and walk in love and righteousness.
They get convicted, repent, confess and have faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins.
They then grow in fellowship and communion with Christ and His body the church.
There main focus is on good works and preaching the word, walking in love and faith.

Sanctification and transformation, dealing with sin, is being open and honest and letting
Gods word and the Holy Spirit convict, cleanse and take us through His ways.

What is amazing to me is a group who seemingly have good theology and faith, yet would
condemn and fight other believers as if they are unbelievers and dispute emphasis and details
which become very unclear. Worst still they accuse people of being evil, hypocrites, pharisees,
and the worst projections they can invent, and then say, they are innocent.

Now I neither understand this or can relate to.

It is like saying I am living in my carnal mind as in reality I walk in the Spirit.

To these believers I am a lost self justifying hypocrite trying to show God how
good I am. It does not matter what I share or my love of Christ or my conviction
and knowledge of the word.

But it is no surprise because all they guys are dyed in the wool evangelicals who
have converted into their new outlook. :)

And they are here to make new converts and put the legalists in their place.
So welcome to the age of the anti-legalist, anti-law, anti-religion.

It is so anti, add a few more words and you know where it will end up.
Hi PJ my friend.

To me your first two paragraphs are excellent and I agree.
I am assuming as a result of conviction you mean to repent is to realise we got it wrong, confess and agree with God we got it wrong. For me when I do this I thank God that I am forgiven. I don't make excuses for my sin, I hold my hands up and fess it up.

I am guilty as charged but I thank God that my guilt and sin has been taken care of by Jesus.

Just so everyone knows I am not a greasy grace. Just a greasy who needs Gods grace.

I think for me the biggest problem has always been, if I have to come back to God and do the same thing at some point God will say "Sorry mate 3 strikes now you are out"

That has been a real burden for me and still is to a certain extent.

A total lack of understanding of God and his amazing love for us. He knows we are weak and made from dust and he remembers this and does not deal with as we deserve.

I would say that most of us on this thread want to be conformed to the image of Jesus and want others to be as well.

We all express how we think it works for us and what doesn't work.

In a sense that's what this thread is about "Not by works"

We all want to do good works, because Jesus has asked us to. That's why we have the Holy Spirit in us.

I know that one of your issues is concerning future are forgiven but I think they are (correct me if I am wrong)
To me and I hope for all others on here that it doesn't give an excuse to sin.

But I do have to say that my sins are forgiven even before I commit them. When the Holy Spirit tells me I got it wrong and lets be honest unless the Holy Spirit reveals to us that we got it wrong we will not know we got it wrong.

So when I get it wrong and I know I have I come before God, confess (agree I got it wrong) thank him I am forgiven and ask for help.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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PAUL'S direct quote in Romans-->

WE CONCLUDE and MAN is justified by FAITH without the DEEDS OF THE LAW (WORKS

HIS QUOTE

Originally Posted by PeterJens
I agree to justification by faith shown by works.

You tell me Ariel how I can assume what he teaches

And then there is the " no righteousness that Christ is imputing to the believer" belief that a thread was made about. This means one needs to live by their own righteousness which is anti-the gospel.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The law is where people live by what they do or don't do for righteousness. It is the opposite of receiving the gift of righteousness which Christ gives us by grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Ok so now i have a question for the workers against..

Lets say that being Judged by your works has nothing to do with your salvation..


Now would you agree that we are still to be Judged by our works ? anyways and what will be the out come ? will it be a ranking score or a teaching rebuking sessision From God ?

Will it be a just a quick message that you must not do this again ? or will it a stern tticking of and tweo weeks in the sin bin where you meet other believers who jhave also been sent to the sinbin..


Now maybe it just might be something else or will your answer be as usual nothing at all ?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
PAUL'S direct quote in Romans-->

WE CONCLUDE and MAN is justified by FAITH without the DEEDS OF THE LAW (WORKS)

HIS QUOTE

Originally Posted by PeterJens
I agree to justification by faith shown by works.

You tell me Ariel how I can assume what he teaches
I have talked to Peter for a while and after you get through his strawmen and victim act, his theology isn't that far off. He doesn't believe in eternal security or election but is more for free will and that folks can fall away.

However, I know EG supports free will also, so I know I am not sure if Peterjens believes that works are needed for salvation (works salvation) or that he believes works are a fruit of being saved (what everyone else has professed in believing).

It gets confused When folks attack him and he gets defensive and makes 100 strawmen to protect himself.
 
May 12, 2017
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And then there is the " no righteousness that Christ is imputing to the believer" belief that a thread was made about. This means one needs to live by their own righteousness which is anti-the gospel.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The law is where people live by what they do or don't do for righteousness. It is the opposite of receiving the gift of righteousness which Christ gives us by grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us.
How do gentile believers live by the law? Would you not agree they live by self righteousness?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
How do gentile believers live by the law? Would you not agree they live by self righteousness?
The moral law is written upon the hearts of all of humanity. That is why they have no excuse for sinning and being sent to hell If they don't accept Jesus.
 
May 12, 2017
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The moral law is written upon the hearts of all of humanity. That is why they have no excuse for sinning and being sent to hell If they don't accept Jesus.
What moral Law is this? Romans 10 is not talking about a moral law, it is talking about Mosaic Law.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Ok so now i have a question for the workers against..

Lets say that being Judged by your works has nothing to do with your salvation..


Now would you agree that we are still to be Judged by our works ? anyways and what will be the out come ? will it be a ranking score or a teaching rebuking sessision From God ?

Will it be a just a quick message that you must not do this again ? or will it a stern tticking of and tweo weeks in the sin bin where you meet other believers who jhave also been sent to the sinbin..


Now maybe it just might be something else or will your answer be as usual nothing at all ?
1st it's not "works against"

It is salvation is by "Faith alone"

No one is against good works.

If you sin, you get chastened by God.

From personal experience it's not pleasant.
.typically I have nightmares about where my life will end up if I continue on my sinful road.

God judges our works, the greatest reward will be to hear "well done my good and faithful servant"

What more would we strive for?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
What moral Law is this?
Love God with all your heart, mind and soul.

Love your neighbor

Every other law God has given in the Bible is based upon those two laws.

The gospel is so much more than the law.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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How do gentile believers live by the law? Would you not agree they live by self righteousness?
Yes....I would agree that all people trying to achieve what Christ has already done by their own self-effort are living by self-righteousness. Most religions of the world advocate good moral living as their standards. This is self-righteousness.

The law of Moses was based on what they did or didn't do for righteousness which is the belief system of the world that was released into the world by Adam's transgression. The law is a manifestation of this tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The true Christian life is lived because of the truth that we are in Christ and we are in His life now.

Of course the Lord in His grace and great mercy set up the sacrificial system for the Jews because He knew they couldn't live by their own righteousness.

But now - we have not come to Mount Sinai but to Mount Zion instead! Thank you Jesus!
 
A

Ariel82

Guest

And then there is the " no righteousness that Christ is imputing to the believer" belief that a thread was made about. This means one needs to live by their own righteousness which is anti-the gospel.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The law is where people live by what they do or don't do for righteousness. It is the opposite of receiving the gift of righteousness which Christ gives us by grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us.
Haven't seen that thread.
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
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Love God with all your heart, mind and soul.

Love your neighbor

Every other law God has given in the Bible is based upon those two laws.

The gospel is so much more than the law.
OK thank oyu. I do not see this as a moral law, I see it as a spiritual law, but that is not the law Romans 10 is talking about.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
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PAUL'S direct quote in Romans-->

WE CONCLUDE and MAN is justified by FAITH without the DEEDS OF THE LAW (WORKS)
Funny how you added works in just one sence to this statement... That works only means one thing lol..

Anyhow faith comes from hearing the word first and then outward expressions must follow... theese are the good works you leave out.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
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1st it's not "works against"

It is salvation is by "Faith alone"

No one is against good works.

If you sin, you get chastened by God.

From personal experience it's not pleasant.
.typically I have nightmares about where my life will end up if I continue on my sinful road.

God judges our works, the greatest reward will be to hear "well done my good and faithful servant"

What more would we strive for?
That doesnt answer the question lol.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
OK thank oyu. I do not see this as a moral law, I see it as a spiritual law, but that is not the law Romans 10 is talking about.
Yes it is.

Romans 10
1Brothers,a my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.b

The Message of Salvation to All

5For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,914
4,354
113
I have talked to Peter for a while and after you get through his strawmen and victim act, his theology isn't that far off. He doesn't believe in eternal security or election but is more for free will and that folks can fall away.

However, I know EG supports free will also, so I know I am not sure if Peterjens believes that works are needed for salvation (works salvation) or that he believes works are a fruit of being saved (what everyone else has professed in believing).

It gets confused When folks attack him and he gets defensive and makes 100 strawmen to protect himself.
To be honest I don't like the word 'strawman'

It has negative connotations that can lead to barriers being put up, out of self preservation.

Lets be honest we all have a different walk with God.
We all want to be like Jesus and we need to the source which is Jesus.

However we can get it wrong.

I encourage us to engaged rather then condemn, after all there is no condemnation for those is Jesus.

If we get it wrong it's burnt up but we will escape the fire and still be saved.

Its all about Jesus nothing more or nothing less.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cXKvdgGFfAc[/video]
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
To be honest I don't like the word 'strawman'

It has negative connotations that can lead to barriers being put up, out of self preservation.

Lets be honest we all have a different walk with God.
We all want to be like Jesus and we need to the source which is Jesus.

However we can get it wrong.

I encourage us to engaged rather then condemn, after all there is no condemnation for those is Jesus.

If we get it wrong it's burnt up but we will escape the fire and still be saved.

Its all about Jesus nothing more or nothing less.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cXKvdgGFfAc[/video]
Strawmen are false images of what others believe and indicate that the other person has already erected defensive barriers to understanding what is actually being said.

Yes we are all walking with Jesus and He leads us to understand His truth as revealed in the Bible depending on our walk.

.What we need is mutual respect and love and acceptance.

What we need is Faith that if someone has the Holy Spirit God will reveal His truth eventually in His time.

We just pray and walk and speak His Love as best as possible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,914
4,354
113
Strawmen are false images of what others believe and indicate that the other person has already erected defensive barriers to understanding what is actually being said.
Yes it is and both ways.

So how do we enagage? If indeed we can engage without adding another brick to the barrier.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Lovely song Bill. The lyrics are really moving.

.
I fix my eyes upon the cross
Reaching out with all I've got
I'm letting go to start again
I need your love that's why I'm here
Waiting outside my life it calls
So while I'm here I'll give my all
You are my peace within the storm
Here at the cross I find my home

You are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it all
You are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it all
Than it all
Grace and Mercy found me
Oh, the blood of Jesus, is greater
Grace and Mercy found me
Oh, the blood of Jesus, is greater

Lord I believe You rose again
So I don't believe this is the end
You never fail, You have a plan
My life You hold within Your hands
So I'll walk by faith and not by sight
You are my source, You are my light
In You I live, I will not die
You stretched these wings now I can fly
.