The finished work of the cross ?

[FlSnookman7]

thois promise?

john 14:15-24 " "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
v21.... 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

[h=1]Matthew 22:37-40New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and greatest commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[followjesus]

Once again, Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Noah was already a righteous man because of his faith BEFORE he built the ark. Building the ark was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith (not the origin of it) and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous," not accounted as righteous (Romans 4:2-3).

all i see really is a circle.

weve found grace also. the difference is we werent walking with God and He offered Grace anyways, now Hes telling us do these things. hear my word, keep it. i honestly dont see any logic in what you are saying. faith is faith for noah or us. He heard and because He believed, he did. simple.

were not told to have faith oin the cross. were told to believe in the one who went to the cross, take His word as it is, the Word of Our God. faith is to hear His words and keep them, not deny thier truth because He died on the cross.


i really dont get anything you are tryong to say. either we have faith and obey God, or we dont.

 

[miknik5]

they also had the teachings of Jesus

what im saying is, we cant follow the mosaic Law, and the gospel they are contrary.

many of the principles in His word is found in prophecy such as isaiah 58

but the Law was written and finished by Moses, deuteronomy 31:24 (And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,)

then v 26 ""Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against thee"

just before the death of moses. thats why paul says this

1 timmothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,....

because the book of the law is a wtness against those who break the commandments. paul is correct when He says

colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; << the book of the mosaic Law

Now we havebeside the glory of God an advocate for sinners, calling us to repentance through forgiveness.

2 testaments. the old and the new.

2 mediators Moses of the first, made mediator here.exodus 20:19 "And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

and of course we Know Who is the One mediator of the eternal covenant.




isaiah 42:9...Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

isaiah 43:18-19 "Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.19Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert."

ONE OLIVE TREE

ONE COVENANT
ONE MEDIATOR (even Moses will testify to this as truth)

If its ETERNAL this NEW (COVENANT) (which by the way was promised to those under the old covenant) than the old one is becoming obsolete and will pass


unless there are two ways for a man to come to THE FATHER?

through Moses
and through THE SON

But we know that's a lie

And Moses will testify

 

[Roughsoul1991]

they also had the teachings of Jesus

what im saying is, we cant follow the mosaic Law, and the gospel they are contrary.

many of the principles in His word is found in prophecy such as isaiah 58

but the Law was written and finished by Moses, deuteronomy 31:24 (And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,)

then v 26 ""Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against thee"

just before the death of moses. thats why paul says this

1 timmothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,....

because the book of the law is a wtness against those who break the commandments. paul is correct when He says

colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; << the book of the mosaic Law

Now we havebeside the glory of God an advocate for sinners, calling us to repentance through forgiveness.

2 testaments. the old and the new.

2 mediators Moses of the first, made mediator here.exodus 20:19 "And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

and of course we Know Who is the One mediator of the eternal covenant.




isaiah 42:9...Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

isaiah 43:18-19 "Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.19Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert."

I agree what I was implying was the OT teaches us why we need a savior, teaches us what sin is and the character of Gods justice and forgiveness. Forgiving his people countless times but never without sowing what his people had reaped. They would be disciplined but God would keep forgiving. The same cycle over and over until the NT. The NT summarized the mosiac law as love God and love your neighbors. The OT was Gods way of disciplinary action to teach holyness. God even had to tell these people to use the bathroom downstream so people can drink upstream. Thats how carnal these peoples minds were.

Did it work? Sure it did. Just look at us today and how we look at God and his word. Gods people have came a long way.

I say all this because some believe the OT is irrelevant.

 

[followjesus]

Matthew 22:37-40New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and greatest commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

exodus 20: 1-17 "And God spake all these words, saying,

2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ( wouldnt be loving God)

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. ( wouldnt be Loving God)

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. ( wouldnt be loving God)

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ( wouldnt be honoring God)

12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. ( wouldnt be Loving our parents )

13Thou shalt not kill. ( not Love to kill)

14Thou shalt not commit adultery. ( wouldnt be loving our spouse)

15Thou shalt not steal. ( wouldnt be Loving our neighbor)

16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. ( wouldnt be loving our neighbor)

17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.( wouldnt be Loving our neighbor)

thats the covenant Law of God exodus 25:16 )

Paul

romans 13:9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

what is Love to God?1 john 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[followjesus]

I agree what I was implying was the OT teaches us why we need a savior, teaches us what sin is and the character of Gods justice and forgiveness. Forgiving his people countless times but never without sowing what his people had reaped. They would be disciplined but God would keep forgiving. The same cycle over and over until the NT. The NT summarized the mosiac law as love God and love your neighbors. The OT was Gods way of disciplinary action to teach holyness. God even had to tell these people to use the bathroom downstream so people can drink upstream. Thats how carnal these peoples minds were.

Did it work? Sure it did. Just look at us today and how we look at God and his word. Gods people have came a long way.

I say all this because some believe the OT is irrelevant.

amen yes i was also agreeing, i just ramble sometimes and im bored and slow at the office at the moment

the ot is so relevant, so useful, and such a light for understanding Jesus !!

 

[Roughsoul1991]

its the power of His word that creates obedience in us. because we believe it and take it into our Hearts and minds. if He didnt first speak it, we could never obey. the glory is surely Gods.

Without Gods Word telling us to obey we would have no reason to obey. But our belief in him tells us to trust his word

 

[followjesus]

ONE OLIVE TREE

ONE COVENANT
ONE MEDIATOR (even Moses will testify to this as truth)

If its ETERNAL this NEW (COVENANT) (which by the way was promised to those under the old covenant) than the old one is becoming obsolete and will pass


unless there are two ways for a man to come to THE FATHER?

through Moses
and through THE SON

But we know that's a lie

And Moses will testify

lol moses mediatedd the first, through angels.

Jesus mediated the eternal when the time came for Him to be revealed

Galatians 3:19 "Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. <<< Moses

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Without Gods Word telling us to obey we would have no reason to obey. But our belief in him tells us to trust his word

But i do not see that as being forced. I see we still must choose to obey. Because our flesh is still at battle with our Spirit.

Matthew 26:41New International Version (NIV)

41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

 

[followjesus]

Without Gods Word telling us to obey we would have no reason to obey. But our belief in him tells us to trust his word

amen some seem to make faith about not believing His word.......when faith only comes throiugh the word. insanity bro i think anyways but maybe its me. but ive never seen statements like " have faith in the finished work of the cross" in the bible, and then that be made into believing and obeying the word, self righteous works. some really bizzare beliefs to me anyways but God Knows.

 

[followjesus]

But i do not see that as being forced. I see we still must choose to obey. Because our flesh is still at battle with our Spirit.

Matthew 26:41New International Version (NIV)

41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

indeed the spirit that Quickens is the gospel words of Jesus

John 6;63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

its why the importance of accepting the real gospel its How God does His work in us. as we see things that tell us to obey, faith grows through the changing of our minds we have to very first come to the decision " I choose to obey God" that happens well before we are walking upright. when our hearts are set on Jesus words in the gospel, the power of God saves us

 

[Ariel82]

I am late to the party and didn't read all the post.

Just wanted to say....without the cross there is no remission of sin or salvation,

However Jesus did not stay on the cross....he ascended to Heaven.

We don't stay dead in sins...we are given life through the Holy Spirit.

Christian life isn't about constantly nailing ourselves, our sins and Jesus to the Christ....it's about growing mature in Christ, produce good fruit of walking with the Holy Spirit and do good works for God's glory.

 

[Ariel82]

Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

Yes I agree but the next question is what is God saving them from and what is He saving them for?

 

[mailmandan]

i really dont get anything you are tryong to say. either we have faith and obey God, or we dont.

There is a reason why you don't get anything I'm saying. Either we are trusting 100% in Christ as the all sufficient means of our salvation or else we are not. Genuine faith results in producing obedience/works, yet we are saved through faith, not obedience/works.

 

[Ariel82]

i dont see anywhere in the bible talking about finished work on the cross????????????????? why do we use this language!!!!!!!!!!!

John 19
28Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” 29A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. 30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Colossians 2
13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

 

[miknik5]

Yes I agree but the next question is what is God saving them from and what is He saving them for?

From The coming wrath
For HIS GLORY alone
For the GLORY of HIS HOLY NAME and to show HIS NAME as HOLY amongst all nations

 

[miknik5]

indeed the spirit that Quickens is the gospel words of Jesus

John 6;63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

its why the importance of accepting the real gospel its How God does His work in us. as we see things that tell us to obey, faith grows through the changing of our minds we have to very first come to the decision " I choose to obey God" that happens well before we are walking upright. when our hearts are set on Jesus words in the gospel, the power of God saves us

The SPIRIT that quickens is HIS SPIRIT that quickens

 

[Ariel82]

Christianity is about taking up our cross daily and following Jesus Christ. Jesus died once for all- all in the past who obeyed God, and all in the future who would obey God. Their obedience didn't earn Christ's blood (which is grace), but the obedient are the group of people He chooses to give that gift to.

What was finished on the cross was Christ's part- to perfectly complete the Old Law (physical covenant), and nail it to the cross. And to purchase His church (spiritual covenant) with His blood. And to provide the opportunity for all to be saved. (Whosoever will). This was His part. His part does not leave us with no part.

Once saved we need to remain saved. Christ's blood only covers us if we are trying not to sin. But the Bible says "If we sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for our sins." (No longer means it once genuinely did). If we sin willfully we are no longer in Christ, no longer have a scape goat, and only those in Christ will be saved. If you are in Christ all your sins are washed away, but we must obey God continuously until we die.

If we leave God by sinning willfully, we are as the prodigal son. If we come back to the Father before we die, we will be back to a saved state of being. When the prodigal returned to his father, his father said "My son was dead, but now he is alive." The son did not die physically- so this is speaking of spiritual death and spiritual life.

God chastens His kids, he doesn't just abandon them and let them die.

Faith in Jesus is what saves, but some folks don't have a saving faith. They have a heathen (tries to follow God's moral laws), demonic (mental assent of the gospel) or apostle( before Jesus died on the cross )faith but not a saving faith.

 

[graceNpeace]

There is a reason why you don't get anything I'm saying. Either we are trusting 100% in Christ as the all sufficient means of our salvation or else we are not. Genuine faith results in producing obedience/works, yet we are saved through faith, not obedience/works.

Bullseye!

Hit the nail on the head.

FollowJesus' theology is very simple:
Replace the Mosaic Law with what he terms the "commandments of Jesus."
The cross, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ - irrelevant (FollowJesus' explanation for this is that Jesus blood sealed His word and somehow it required His death to make His words authoritative!!!??!!).

In other words one set of rules is replaced with another.
And, apparently, Jesus Christ had to die for that - how pathetic!

 

[miknik5]

all i see really is a circle.

weve found grace also. the difference is we werent walking with God and He offered Grace anyways, now Hes telling us do these things. hear my word, keep it. i honestly dont see any logic in what you are saying. faith is faith for noah or us. He heard and because He believed, he did. simple.

were not told to have faith oin the cross. were told to believe in the one who went to the cross, take His word as it is, the Word of Our God. faith is to hear His words and keep them, not deny thier truth because He died on the cross.


i really dont get anything you are tryong to say. either we have faith and obey God, or we dont.

Noah was a preacher of righteousness

it meant he didn't sit and examine the works of those whom he preached to
he just preached salvation from the coming flood

those who listened to Noah would have been saved

all they had to do was listen and enter in


they didn't
and the flood came
and by them the door was closed and it was too late to enter into the refuge which GOD provided