Born Again Vs. Saved
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Right, lets settle this stupidity of the literal interpretation of the parable of the sower:
I have quoted the full parable below for reference
KJV1611 and others desire this parable to be literally interpreted in order to "prove" that the kingdom of Heaven is the earth.
First up a literal interpretation makes this a story about farming and how to deal with weeds in the crop of wheat. The kingdom of heaven just is all about farming!
Is this a ludicrous conclusion to make about this parable - you betcha!
The problem is that either this account is to be literally interpreted - the results of that are above - or there is ANOTHER interpretation.
The one thing that cannot be done is to say, "Oh yes, OBVIOUSLY the wheat and the tares represent people, some of whom are lost and the rest saved, BUT, I insist that the the parable be literally interpreted with respect to the field, and its location, mentioned in the parable, and somehow this places the the kingdom of Heaven on earth!"
THIS is completely nonsensical.
Matt 13:24-29
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
However, Scripture itself provides the interpretation of this parable by none other than Jesus Christ Himself:
Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
The key verse that unlocks the meaning of this parable is the second part of vs 40, "so it will be at the end of this age."
This parable is all about the final judgement!
Yes, every human being that will be subject to this final judgement had to have lived on earth at some point (hence the field being linked to the world), however this harvest that is spoken of cannot just be speaking of people that are physically alive at the time of the final judgement - it is the judgement of EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER LIVED.
So then, for those who claim that this parable "proves" that the kingdom of Heaven is on earth, where are the souls of all those countless billions who have passed - on earth, or somewhere else perhaps....?
Furthermore, this parable is NOT about a PLACE, but an event, THE FINAL JUDGEMENT.
Jesus is answering the question about why it appears that evil is allowed to flourish, apparently unchecked.
The answer is that all evil will be judged - "so it will be at the end of this age." Matt 13:40
The overwhelming message about the kingdom of Heaven in this parable has nothing to do with its LOCATION but its NATURE: The kingdom of Heaven is a kingdom of righteousness and justice!
I have quoted the full parable below for reference
KJV1611 and others desire this parable to be literally interpreted in order to "prove" that the kingdom of Heaven is the earth.
First up a literal interpretation makes this a story about farming and how to deal with weeds in the crop of wheat. The kingdom of heaven just is all about farming!
Is this a ludicrous conclusion to make about this parable - you betcha!
The problem is that either this account is to be literally interpreted - the results of that are above - or there is ANOTHER interpretation.
The one thing that cannot be done is to say, "Oh yes, OBVIOUSLY the wheat and the tares represent people, some of whom are lost and the rest saved, BUT, I insist that the the parable be literally interpreted with respect to the field, and its location, mentioned in the parable, and somehow this places the the kingdom of Heaven on earth!"
THIS is completely nonsensical.
Matt 13:24-29
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
However, Scripture itself provides the interpretation of this parable by none other than Jesus Christ Himself:
Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
The key verse that unlocks the meaning of this parable is the second part of vs 40, "so it will be at the end of this age."
This parable is all about the final judgement!
Yes, every human being that will be subject to this final judgement had to have lived on earth at some point (hence the field being linked to the world), however this harvest that is spoken of cannot just be speaking of people that are physically alive at the time of the final judgement - it is the judgement of EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER LIVED.
So then, for those who claim that this parable "proves" that the kingdom of Heaven is on earth, where are the souls of all those countless billions who have passed - on earth, or somewhere else perhaps....?
Furthermore, this parable is NOT about a PLACE, but an event, THE FINAL JUDGEMENT.
Jesus is answering the question about why it appears that evil is allowed to flourish, apparently unchecked.
The answer is that all evil will be judged - "so it will be at the end of this age." Matt 13:40
The overwhelming message about the kingdom of Heaven in this parable has nothing to do with its LOCATION but its NATURE: The kingdom of Heaven is a kingdom of righteousness and justice!
Obviously you are not so good at understanding simple KJV English as you thought!
This verse is simply saying that no man has ascended to heaven, but he (the Son of Man) who came down from heaven.
If you are trying to imply that this verse teaches that Heaven is on earth then you are out of luck.
Try reading the whole chapter to get the context right first before cherry-picking the odd verse that does not say what you think it does.
It is brutally obvious that your continued insistence on taking single verses and even single words so hopelessly out of context betrays how deeply indoctrinated you are in some weird theological fantasy.
This verse is simply saying that no man has ascended to heaven, but he (the Son of Man) who came down from heaven.
If you are trying to imply that this verse teaches that Heaven is on earth then you are out of luck.
Try reading the whole chapter to get the context right first before cherry-picking the odd verse that does not say what you think it does.
It is brutally obvious that your continued insistence on taking single verses and even single words so hopelessly out of context betrays how deeply indoctrinated you are in some weird theological fantasy.
KJV1611 adherence to KJVO is well known, however, given the debate, initiated by him on more than one thread on the meaning of 1 Peter 1:3 and the kingdom of God as evidenced by his take on the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matt 13:24-30) and John 3:13, and most tellingly, this very thread "Born again vs Saved", it is my very strong suspicion that he is an ARMSTRONGITE of some flavour.
Maybe this is already known, I don't know.
I invite KJV1611 to plainly state his theology...
Maybe this is already known, I don't know.
I invite KJV1611 to plainly state his theology...
there is no understanding if you try to isolate verses bro. its like if you read a book you dont try to seperate the sentances youll never get the undrstanding by trying that way. its the message that all the sentances make. Jesus is our Lord, whats that make us? those in submission to His words or what some call His will. One verse theology is half the reason for all the confusion. one doesnt erase the rest its the message that saves and gives ne birth