The statement was not are there gay men leading worship there, but was there a worship leader who came out and said that he was gay? Two different things. I know of worship services where they brought the house down and some folks leading were into heavy sin, so it can be.
Gay/LGBT "Christian" Singers
- Thread starter Stephen63
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So God now anoints deceived people while they're believing & teaching false doctrine, & not repenting for their sins, in open rebellion against God.
It seems to me you're spraying graphite & WD-40 on an already slippery slope.
It would appear that God still uses some Pentecostal and other types of pastors that are deceived in their own sinning because some people still can get saved under them sometimes when they do get around to preach Christ.
If they are called of God to begin with - when they preach Christ - the anointing in them will still operate as the gifts and callings of God are without repentance - despite their false doctrines of works-based righteousness. which they may have.
If they are called of God to begin with - when they preach Christ - the anointing in them will still operate as the gifts and callings of God are without repentance - despite their false doctrines of works-based righteousness. which they may have.
Paul spoke to this....Some preached out of contention, some controversy to mock Paul and the gospel etc....his conclusion was the power is in the message not the messenger....
So God now anoints deceived people while they're believing & teaching false doctrine, & not repenting for their sins, in open rebellion against God.
It seems to me you're spraying graphite & WD-40 on an already slippery slope.
Philippians 1.15-18
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; [SUP]16 [/SUP]the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.Yes, and I will rejoice,
Bruce,
Let's back up and be a bit more careful.
I know you are basing most of this reply on Phil 1.15-18 and part of what you are saying can be held up under this passage.
The anointing is the yoke destroying, burden removing power of God, and a non-called false teacher preaching out of self motivation, jealousy, contention is preaching out of the flesh, not the anointing. Under this scenario, then if they do preach Christ it does what you are saying so and confirms Phil 1.15-18.
A God called, approved, validated and sent 5 fold gift will never preach a false doctrine and always preach from the anointing.
under this scenario phil 1.15-18 is still confirmed.
What is not quite accurate here is that called man of God teaching false doctrine and that he is preaching out of the anointing
We could start a whole other thread on the simple fact that today we have far more self called people in the body today then we do have God called, approved, validated and sent gifts in the body.
A self called gift is deceived and has no gifts that could become irrevocable, therefore there is no anointing upon them or in them.
That's why I said that they need to be called of God in order to have the anointing in them to operate like it was meant to.
I firmly believe there are many people that have made themselves pastors, prophets, evangelists apostles and teachers that were never called to do that.
They just heard what others did - went through their denomination to be "approved" and created themselves a position of which they were never called of God to begin with.
But I would have to disagree with you in the area that just because they are called as an pastor - that doesn't mean that everything they teach is correct. This goes for any of the 5-fold ministry.
The anointing that is in all of us will operate in it's gift when we walk in it.
None of us will be perfect doctrinally in all things and if we think we are - we are going into being deceived. Paul even said that if "he" came and preached another gospel - let him be accursed.
Paul said "If anyone thinks he knows anything - he doesn't know it as he ought to know it." We see in part and know in part because of this body of flesh we are in now.
This being said - I would lean more to the Pentecostal beliefs in most areas then any other denomination. I don't believe in what everything any denomination says nor any one minster on every subject or truth as they see it.
I believe it is important to listen to those who are anointed of God to teach on certain areas. When they go outside of their calling they can get into error.
I am right with you on this one, and even the example of using "Pentecostal beliefs" is one I myself deal with. I go to a Pentecostal church. I think my pastor is great and preaches the truth, however I do not believe tongues is what they teach exactly. For example I believe speaking in tongues is speaking in a known language you've never learned before, however I do believe there is just enough vague scripture to support a personal prayer language. The bigger issue I have is when they say that tongues is the "proof" of salvation, I think it is VERY clear that no gift is for ALL believers. That is a much bigger issue in my opinion, but honestly not a big enough issue to leave it and call it a false gospel when they are not saying "if you don't speak in tongues you are not saved". I believe there are many truly reborn, Holy Spirit indwelt believers in my church, and my pastor doesn't "push" these things on people. I agree that there are things that true believers can differ on and still be part of the body. Also the fact that I can fake tongues and that it is also a Hindu practice as well as other religions suggest to me that it is not what the Pentecostal group claims it is fully.
All that said, and keeping with the topic of this thread I do not believe homosexuality falls into this category, a church giving their stamp of approval to this is very dangerous and pointing the people in the wrong direction.
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kaylagrl
Guest
Hi Grace,
The gifts and calling was about Israel as a nation. Not about an individual that might have a gift from the Holy Spirit.
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
HE will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
“This is MY covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. We don't see individual gifts or calling here, God is speaking of the nation of Israel. Context is key in interpretation.
And whoever in the church sins, (especially teachers for they will be judged all the more harsher) if they don't repent we must use the Matthew 18 principle.
And also 1 Corinthians: I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.
We can't be light on sin in the church. We are to love the person and because we do we must bring discipline out of love for them, for obedience to God because we love Him first and for the rest of the church as protection from wolves and because we love them as well.
Like one Christian said, "We end up loving people right into hell because we won't confront sin anymore in the churches."
Those who are contrite in Spirit will repent when approached with their sin (like David). Those who aren't will continue in sin - a little leaven, leavens the whole church.
No it's an Assembly of God church, and I didn't mean all the examples I was using they teach or believe. My pastor believes that when you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost it will be evidences by speaking in tongues. If you know the Assembly of God's faith statement that is what he believes too, but honestly he doesn't push it hard. It's just not the subject matter often. Like I said before, and I know I wasn't very clear, some of the examples I was using were not what is taught in the church I attend, also this was not meant as a criticism of these things, just an example of how even though we don't agree on some things we can still all love Christ together..
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sevenseas
Guest
well we can glorify that or we can glorify the Lord
NO worship leaders or groups should be glorified
I think it's pretty straight forward
As I watched this one, I see defiance, disrespect, & rebellion in this singer.
She has absolutely no desire to repent & still claims to be a christian.
Basically, she's demanding acceptance.
[video=youtube;TO0yYlfHCHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO0yYlfHCHk[/video]
She has absolutely no desire to repent & still claims to be a christian.
Basically, she's demanding acceptance.
[video=youtube;TO0yYlfHCHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO0yYlfHCHk[/video]
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sevenseas
Guest
So God now anoints deceived people while they're believing & teaching false doctrine, & not repenting for their sins, in open rebellion against God.
It seems to me you're spraying graphite & WD-40 on an already slippery slope.
I've seen it myself
it's not good
I don't think you understand how God anoints or how the gifts work
David (as someone else brought up) was still GOD'S ANOINTED KING after committing murder by proxy
y'all need to get on board with God's plan of redemption and not your human judgement which will always, and I do mean ALWAYS, portray others as worse then you are. when I say you in this case, I mean generic you. we are all the same until God opens our eyes to His heart and how He extends Himself to sinners.
God offers grace and that gift is always extended until the day we die.
you just like to pick on some people. I guess I am in good company since you seem to love to bite at me
but I will say what is true because I have lived both sides of the coin
some are so lost while thinking they are 'all that and safe thank you very much' that it is scarier than blatant sin
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sevenseas
Guest
so you are on your knees for her, right?
and you are super concerned about her testimony which you know does not glorify the Lord Jesus Christ, right?
or do you wish for fire from heaven? that will come too, but for now we should accept Jesus response to those closest to Him while He walked the planet He made
God grieves over her and your heart should too
you can be the most knowledgeable man on earth but if you do not have love, you sir, are nothing at all
I agree with you 100% on this. A very good perspective and thank you for sharing. I know I can get so caught up in the debate that I forget to keep all my words in perspective too sometimes, but I do believe you just hit the nail on the head as far as the point you are making here.
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sevenseas
Guest
Thank you. That means alot to me because I was once one who threw stones and I learned it in church.
Merciful God has delivered and is delivering me from that nasty spirit!
one thing more...we get many 'chances' but if we don't listen we will find ourself on the receiving end of the stones. As they pile up around our feet we will look down and ask 'why?' only one answer there
it's a hard lesson to learn but the burden is too great to carry and Jesus will mercifully take it off our shoulders