Those whom the Lord Jesus will judge
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U
I have no need to cherry pick ...all of scripture makes a cohesive whole that can only be understood through the death and resurrection and that He bore the sins of the whole world and those that believe in what He has done for them have eternal life completely which cannot be forsaken or lost.
In John 8 31-44 Jesus is telling them to continue in His word, meaning that what He is saying is true. He is telling them that He is from the Father. So it they were to continue in His words, meaning that they would recognize Him for who He truly is, but they do not believe His words (testimony) therefore they do not belong to Him.
He is not stating a condition to keep salvation at all. His words are about coming to salvation and being made free in Christ.
If they continue to believe what He teaches (His word) eventually they would come to the Cross.
There is a timeline to scripture that must be understood.
Salvation/being born again is a singular event that requires us to believe Jesus's words because His words lead to salvation. The condition is not an ongoing work that needs to be completed.
Jesus is testifying of who He is and pointing to the cross and resurrection as He always does.
In John 8 31-44 Jesus is telling them to continue in His word, meaning that what He is saying is true. He is telling them that He is from the Father. So it they were to continue in His words, meaning that they would recognize Him for who He truly is, but they do not believe His words (testimony) therefore they do not belong to Him.
He is not stating a condition to keep salvation at all. His words are about coming to salvation and being made free in Christ.
If they continue to believe what He teaches (His word) eventually they would come to the Cross.
There is a timeline to scripture that must be understood.
Salvation/being born again is a singular event that requires us to believe Jesus's words because His words lead to salvation. The condition is not an ongoing work that needs to be completed.
Jesus is testifying of who He is and pointing to the cross and resurrection as He always does.
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Salvation is the forgiveness of Sin and the deliverance from the powers of darkness, right?
This is the work of the Cross.
Being born again is being raised into newness of life, right?
This is the work of the tomb not the cross.
How many people go to the cross seeking forgiveness of sin and deliverance from the powers of darkness but never, ever die to themselves and are raised into newness of life?
This is the work of the Cross.
Being born again is being raised into newness of life, right?
This is the work of the tomb not the cross.
How many people go to the cross seeking forgiveness of sin and deliverance from the powers of darkness but never, ever die to themselves and are raised into newness of life?
U
My experience is that ultimately those who believe in conditional salvation become fruit inspectors which makes them seem very self-righteous.
If he is a brother in Christ then God in His Grace will deal with Him as He promised He would.
If He is not a brother then your whole point about false grace is moot.
Either way we should being praying for this man.
If he is a brother in Christ then God in His Grace will deal with Him as He promised He would.
If He is not a brother then your whole point about false grace is moot.
Either way we should being praying for this man.
And, there ya have it folks... this is how the false grace crowd rolls
Here is a great video showing a guy's testimony who was deceived by the religion of Christianity - like the one that says God throws His children in hell. Then he was deceived by the homosexual lifestyle.
Then Jesus revealed His true nature to him and showed him the real gospel of the grace and love of God for him in Christ - and he was delivered out of the homosexual lifestyle.
Our loving Father no more throws His children into hell then Donald Duck and Daffy Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.
This is what He really does and we can trust Him. Jesus is not a liar.
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
[video=youtube;lsI4hhm_J2A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsI4hhm_J2A[/video]
Then Jesus revealed His true nature to him and showed him the real gospel of the grace and love of God for him in Christ - and he was delivered out of the homosexual lifestyle.
Our loving Father no more throws His children into hell then Donald Duck and Daffy Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.
This is what He really does and we can trust Him. Jesus is not a liar.
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
[video=youtube;lsI4hhm_J2A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsI4hhm_J2A[/video]
This is impossible to happen brother. All who died with Christ on the cross have been raised up in His resurrection. They just haven't received the revelation of it yet.
They have been preached at with a "behavior modification" program instead of the gospel of the grace of God and thus do not have their minds renewed to the truth yet of what really happened when they received Christ.
There is no such thing as dying to yourself after being in Christ and Christ being in us. The truth is - we have already died. This is not a work we produce. This is received by grace through faith.
Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
The understanding of the new creation in Christ is vital for proper growing up in Him or else we create a works-based doctrine that is really just being fueled by the self-effort of the flesh.
They have been preached at with a "behavior modification" program instead of the gospel of the grace of God and thus do not have their minds renewed to the truth yet of what really happened when they received Christ.
There is no such thing as dying to yourself after being in Christ and Christ being in us. The truth is - we have already died. This is not a work we produce. This is received by grace through faith.
Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
The understanding of the new creation in Christ is vital for proper growing up in Him or else we create a works-based doctrine that is really just being fueled by the self-effort of the flesh.
Amen ...I agree. Keep yourselves from idols. We are still one with Him but it's the renewing of our minds that we need.
I know what you are saying though - experiencing this union with the Lord while on this earth as we walk with total reliance on Him alone for life and living.
To me - all sinning is relational. All sinning is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me - most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.
For example - If I steal something - that is a sin but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things.
The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.
..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me.
That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.
I'm off to listen to some teaching or fall asleep - which ever happens first..lol. Everyone have a great night and be good to each other.
I will give you my testimony of what the Lord has done when He revealed to me my complete dependence on the gospel of the grace of Christ.
He has changed my mind ( As, only God can give true repentance ) on how I view a lot of things concerning Him and my life in Christ and of course that means all kinds of different sin - for "whatsoever is not of faith is in fact sin ".
If people feel the need to castigate what the Lord has done in my life - then so be it. I am not denying Christ in me and what He has done. I am not ashamed of the gospel - for in it is the power of God for real salvation.
I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.
I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him.
Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."
This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace, repentance from dead works and the total forgiveness of sins that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. (they were initially to me as well )
This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!
This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.
To live a holier life in Him as a by-product of relying on Him and believing in all that he reveals to me...which is not only living separate from the "biggie sins" but everything that He reveals about anything that is contrary to life and His nature that is in me....this has led me to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.
If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!
I am living a much fuller and holier life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.
I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )
I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!
It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb".
It will never be - "Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"
It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity. He will perfect that which He has started and He will be glorified.
I will give you my testimony of what the Lord has done when He revealed to me my complete dependence on the gospel of the grace of Christ.
He has changed my mind ( As, only God can give true repentance ) on how I view a lot of things concerning Him and my life in Christ and of course that means all kinds of different sin - for "whatsoever is not of faith is in fact sin ".
If people feel the need to castigate what the Lord has done in my life - then so be it. I am not denying Christ in me and what He has done. I am not ashamed of the gospel - for in it is the power of God for real salvation.
I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.
I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him.
Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."
This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace, repentance from dead works and the total forgiveness of sins that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. (they were initially to me as well )
This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!
This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.
To live a holier life in Him as a by-product of relying on Him and believing in all that he reveals to me...which is not only living separate from the "biggie sins" but everything that He reveals about anything that is contrary to life and His nature that is in me....this has led me to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.
If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!
I am living a much fuller and holier life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.
I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )
I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!
It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb".
It will never be - "Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"
It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity. He will perfect that which He has started and He will be glorified.
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U
Salvation is personal belief in the complete work of Jesus so that He is our righteousness, we are no longer fallen but restored to right relationship with God.
Salvation is a gift. Our sins are forgiven, not because we asked for forgiveness, but because we came to a belief in our utter inability to save ourselves and therefore believed in Jesus as our Saviour and His atoning and substitutionary death.
Yes I would agree we are able to be born again here in this lifetime and raised into the newness in life in Christ Jesus
because He was resurrected from the grave.
Salvation is a gift. Our sins are forgiven, not because we asked for forgiveness, but because we came to a belief in our utter inability to save ourselves and therefore believed in Jesus as our Saviour and His atoning and substitutionary death.
Yes I would agree we are able to be born again here in this lifetime and raised into the newness in life in Christ Jesus
because He was resurrected from the grave.
SIN is willfully doing something that the Holy Spirit told you not to do. This is the whole message behind Paul's messages on freedom and liberty.
I personally do not see having an occasional beer or glass of wine is a big deal for a Christian. If it is not Sin to them.
That said I believe Alcohol is a gateway to other works of the flesh.
Now, for me, I cannot because I was addicted to it and the Holy Spirit has expressly told me that to have a drink would be SIN for me.
I also believe that drunkenness is willful sin and abuse. I also believe that Church leaders should set a better example and refrain completely from any appearance of things that may cause the flock to stumble or put their testimony on trial.
This is how Perry Noble fell. His elders and him were fine having an occasional beer,. Later on it was evident and discovered that Perry was using alcohol to cope with hidden and very serious troubles in his ministry, theology, personal life and his wife and family. The elders lowered the boom on him and also themselves and let the church know that occasional drinking it not right for anyone.
Anyone who tells me they can control their alcohol intake already has a problem with it. I have counseled many church members and being brutally honest here, alcohol usually is involved by one or both parties.
Be filled with the Spirit and not wine.
I personally do not see having an occasional beer or glass of wine is a big deal for a Christian. If it is not Sin to them.
That said I believe Alcohol is a gateway to other works of the flesh.
Now, for me, I cannot because I was addicted to it and the Holy Spirit has expressly told me that to have a drink would be SIN for me.
I also believe that drunkenness is willful sin and abuse. I also believe that Church leaders should set a better example and refrain completely from any appearance of things that may cause the flock to stumble or put their testimony on trial.
This is how Perry Noble fell. His elders and him were fine having an occasional beer,. Later on it was evident and discovered that Perry was using alcohol to cope with hidden and very serious troubles in his ministry, theology, personal life and his wife and family. The elders lowered the boom on him and also themselves and let the church know that occasional drinking it not right for anyone.
Anyone who tells me they can control their alcohol intake already has a problem with it. I have counseled many church members and being brutally honest here, alcohol usually is involved by one or both parties.
Be filled with the Spirit and not wine.
I can certainly see that and believe that is your right to lead your life as you feel is right for you at this time in your life. I too agree that drunkenness is a work of the flesh just like envy and malice and deceit is and they all bring destruction of some sprt in our lives while here on this earth.
It is obvious this guy you are referencing had his life based on something that was devoid of relying on the life of Christ being manifested as it was meant to do and thus things started to break down in his life.
Us Christians living from ourselves and not on Christ Himself will find various ways to cope with things - including drinking or even working "for" God to try to find life. There are really many kinds of living after the flesh and trying to find life outside of Christ Himself.
All idols and living from flesh - there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but in the end - it is all flesh. All idols and living from the flesh will bring death to us while we are here on this earth.
There is a much greater true Christian life full of adventure by relying on the grace of God in Christ and learning of His love for us. This fills us up with all the fullness of God - Paul says in Ephesians.
I'm off for the night. Bless you brother and have a great rest of the night.
It is obvious this guy you are referencing had his life based on something that was devoid of relying on the life of Christ being manifested as it was meant to do and thus things started to break down in his life.
Us Christians living from ourselves and not on Christ Himself will find various ways to cope with things - including drinking or even working "for" God to try to find life. There are really many kinds of living after the flesh and trying to find life outside of Christ Himself.
All idols and living from flesh - there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but in the end - it is all flesh. All idols and living from the flesh will bring death to us while we are here on this earth.
There is a much greater true Christian life full of adventure by relying on the grace of God in Christ and learning of His love for us. This fills us up with all the fullness of God - Paul says in Ephesians.
I'm off for the night. Bless you brother and have a great rest of the night.
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Ever walk in a room and feel somebody looking at you, and when you turn towards them you find they were looking at you?
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. John 9:1
Why of course this person was actually blind because it is written:
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
John 9:2-3
Even if he wasn't, he still wouldn't have been able to see since his eyes were covered with clay.
He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight. John 9:11
I find it amazing that the blind guy found the pool of Siloam on his own, but maybe he had help getting there. But when the Pharisees asked him again about receiving his sight:
Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see. John 9:15
So if we are to believe the blind man who received his sight then do we still believe him when he answers the Pharisees question regarding him that opened his eyes?
They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet. John 9:17
And the passage ends with the following:
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. John 9:39
[video=youtube;EltIpB4EtYU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EltIpB4EtYU[/video]
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. John 9:1
Why of course this person was actually blind because it is written:
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
John 9:2-3
Even if he wasn't, he still wouldn't have been able to see since his eyes were covered with clay.
He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight. John 9:11
I find it amazing that the blind guy found the pool of Siloam on his own, but maybe he had help getting there. But when the Pharisees asked him again about receiving his sight:
Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see. John 9:15
So if we are to believe the blind man who received his sight then do we still believe him when he answers the Pharisees question regarding him that opened his eyes?
They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet. John 9:17
And the passage ends with the following:
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. John 9:39
[video=youtube;EltIpB4EtYU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EltIpB4EtYU[/video]
Right after Jesus was baptized by John and Father declared Jesus was His Son in Whom He was well-pleased.
Matthew 4:
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
4 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
The temptation by the devil I was to have Jesus provide for Himself rather than rely on Father to provide for Him.
I love the response of Jesus:
Matthew 4:5 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
"It is written" are powerful words we can rely on our whole life. To have this record in Matthew (and the record in Luke) is such a great example for us. "It is written" was good enough for our Lord Jesus Christ and it should be good enough for us. And the more Scripture we know, the more the Holy Spirit can bring to our remembrance.
Matthew 4:
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
4 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
The temptation by the devil I was to have Jesus provide for Himself rather than rely on Father to provide for Him.
I love the response of Jesus:
Matthew 4:5 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
"It is written" are powerful words we can rely on our whole life. To have this record in Matthew (and the record in Luke) is such a great example for us. "It is written" was good enough for our Lord Jesus Christ and it should be good enough for us. And the more Scripture we know, the more the Holy Spirit can bring to our remembrance.
That's funny... God does not throw His children in to hell... just those that reject Him, turn away from Him, and refuse to allow Him to live in them / walk in them (2 Corinthians 6:16). Jesus did say that not everyone that calls Him Lord would make it... that's not speaking about sinners out in the world cause they ain't calling Him Lord other than to use His Name in vain when cussing.
God's Word contains warnings about this... false grace people refuse to believe the whole counsel of God so they are cherry pickers following a different gospel.
We'll see who ends up where in the end... maybe after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb before dessert we can all meet up over by the Tree of ife and see who among us is absent...
Jesus said we would know them by their fruit... you're not suggesting we ignore what Jesus said, are ya???
The New Testament has a lot to say about false teachings and false teachers and warns us to watch for this so we can avoid it and not be deceived.
False grace people play like that's for the world... they're already deceived not having been born again so God is not stupid issuing warnings for those that are already deceived to watch out for deception.
That's how stupid some of these false grace TV preachers explanation of God's warnings are and their baloney filters right on down to the false grace drones regurgitating what they say on talkboards.
Then explain WHY osteen's church has openly gay so-called Christians going to his church who are out and proud claiming being gay is a blessing from god like that matthew vines cat.
Osteen won't plainly speak what God says about the gay thing. He's been wishy washy on it for several years and dances around it cause he's a false teacher.
Mr prince won't even talk about it. These guys are seeker sensitive and are more interested in their offerings and product sales than saying what God says on this subject.
I wouldn't be too surprised if one of these 2 guys doesn't com out as gay some day... they are kinda dainty.
I drink all the alcohol I want... God delivered me from the desire, and so I don't to drink any alcohol at all.
But, the false grace crowd will tell ya it's really not a problem if you get drunk since all future sin has been paid for... drink up!
More and more so-called Christians are actually saying this
And still... the false grace crowd does not want to acknowledge Hebrews 3:7-15 (and other warnings in the New Testament) cause it does not fit in to their religion of being free to go ahead and sin if you'd like... which they won't talk about how many who claim to be Christian are getting more and more free to sin openly and walk after the flesh still claiming they are saved.
It's all good as long as everyone is "positive" and is smiling and feels good about themselves... just like new age and other false religions.
God's Word contains warnings about this... false grace people refuse to believe the whole counsel of God so they are cherry pickers following a different gospel.
We'll see who ends up where in the end... maybe after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb before dessert we can all meet up over by the Tree of ife and see who among us is absent...
Jesus said we would know them by their fruit... you're not suggesting we ignore what Jesus said, are ya???
The New Testament has a lot to say about false teachings and false teachers and warns us to watch for this so we can avoid it and not be deceived.
False grace people play like that's for the world... they're already deceived not having been born again so God is not stupid issuing warnings for those that are already deceived to watch out for deception.
That's how stupid some of these false grace TV preachers explanation of God's warnings are and their baloney filters right on down to the false grace drones regurgitating what they say on talkboards.
Then explain WHY osteen's church has openly gay so-called Christians going to his church who are out and proud claiming being gay is a blessing from god like that matthew vines cat.
Osteen won't plainly speak what God says about the gay thing. He's been wishy washy on it for several years and dances around it cause he's a false teacher.
Mr prince won't even talk about it. These guys are seeker sensitive and are more interested in their offerings and product sales than saying what God says on this subject.
I wouldn't be too surprised if one of these 2 guys doesn't com out as gay some day... they are kinda dainty.
I drink all the alcohol I want... God delivered me from the desire, and so I don't to drink any alcohol at all.
But, the false grace crowd will tell ya it's really not a problem if you get drunk since all future sin has been paid for... drink up!
More and more so-called Christians are actually saying this
And still... the false grace crowd does not want to acknowledge Hebrews 3:7-15 (and other warnings in the New Testament) cause it does not fit in to their religion of being free to go ahead and sin if you'd like... which they won't talk about how many who claim to be Christian are getting more and more free to sin openly and walk after the flesh still claiming they are saved.
It's all good as long as everyone is "positive" and is smiling and feels good about themselves... just like new age and other false religions.
