Not By Works
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Past tense?..................
"Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for exsamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." (1Cor 6:12)
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt 24:38-39)
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Rev 3:20)
God bless you
"Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for exsamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." (1Cor 6:12)
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt 24:38-39)
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Rev 3:20)
God bless you
Is that saving faith the one void of works as you claim it? How can you exercise something you reject and deny or even condemn? If your faith is without works, it is dead,vain & without a purpose so how could you possibly exercise it.
James 2:14-26 Faith and Deeds What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2:14-26 Faith and Deeds What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
E
Yes, and since we are saved BY FAITH.. A person who as james said CLAIMS to have faith, yet has no works, has NEVER been saved, why?
His faith is dead (non existent)
Since true faith produces true works, a lack of true faith would be void of works (but we must be careful, religious people appear to have works, yet their faith is in religion not God)
Here is an interesting model.
Take group 1, the lawless, read in this model unbelievers
Take group 2, those who have faith, believers
In this view there are two groups. Those who do not believe who are driven to faith
through the law and believers, who believe but also break the law just like unbelievers.
Now the law is law, moral behaviour rules and punishments for breaking them.
In the biblical view there are two groups. Those who break the law and those who do not.
God is very clear, to know Him is to obey His commands. It is impossible to separate
this link unless you want to deny his words and his clear meaning.
But the theology being put forward is replacing the word lawless with unbeliever.
Replace the word righteousness, purity, and holiness etc. with believer and you have it.
You then get a tale where morality has been removed and everything is about
belief in ideas about God, and what happens as a result is spiritual, and mystical.
It is cognitive dissonance, where failure to follow the morality preached by Christ
leads people to remove it and replace it with acceptance no matter how you behave.
What is staggering is the condemnation, superiority, the dooming people to hell, the
presumption and language used. Why I find this shocking is because I do not say people
are doomed to hell, just they will face judgement before the King. It is for Him to judge.
But without the Holy Spirit living in our hearts and walking after Christ what hope is there?
So to meet someone who is prepared to condemn anyone to hell and then find it is believers
he turns his biggest anger on, suggests there is something very wrong here.
Take group 1, the lawless, read in this model unbelievers
Take group 2, those who have faith, believers
In this view there are two groups. Those who do not believe who are driven to faith
through the law and believers, who believe but also break the law just like unbelievers.
Now the law is law, moral behaviour rules and punishments for breaking them.
In the biblical view there are two groups. Those who break the law and those who do not.
God is very clear, to know Him is to obey His commands. It is impossible to separate
this link unless you want to deny his words and his clear meaning.
But the theology being put forward is replacing the word lawless with unbeliever.
Replace the word righteousness, purity, and holiness etc. with believer and you have it.
You then get a tale where morality has been removed and everything is about
belief in ideas about God, and what happens as a result is spiritual, and mystical.
It is cognitive dissonance, where failure to follow the morality preached by Christ
leads people to remove it and replace it with acceptance no matter how you behave.
What is staggering is the condemnation, superiority, the dooming people to hell, the
presumption and language used. Why I find this shocking is because I do not say people
are doomed to hell, just they will face judgement before the King. It is for Him to judge.
But without the Holy Spirit living in our hearts and walking after Christ what hope is there?
So to meet someone who is prepared to condemn anyone to hell and then find it is believers
he turns his biggest anger on, suggests there is something very wrong here.
E
Amen, James was differentiating between people who were hearers and does, vs people who were hearers but not doers of the word. He told them to test their faith, How can one CLAIM to have faiht, yet have no work They can't. If you do, your liars, and your faith is dead.
What james was NOT doing, was contradicting paul and saying works save us, Only that those of true faith WILL have work.
Interesting idea
God calls us to a life of purity, holiness, love, righteousness.
If you respond by doing this empowered by the cross, the Holy Spirit and love working within you
this is not fulfilling the promise of the gospel but adding to it.
The whole argument is like saying if you take your car to the car wash and it is clean, by claiming
it is clean is adding to the effect of the car wash and denying the car wash washes the car clean.
This is clearly absurd, the reason you wash the car is to have a clean car, and a clean car proves
the car wash works. The opposite is also true, if you fail to be cleaned by the car wash, either
the car wash has failed or you did not actually go.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
1 Cor 10:12-13
Now if we are fallen, walking continually in sin, unresolved there is no standing firm.
And temptation is not something we resist, because we just accept we are compromised.
So this passage assumes we are standing firm in righteousness and love.
Halleluyah.
God calls us to a life of purity, holiness, love, righteousness.
If you respond by doing this empowered by the cross, the Holy Spirit and love working within you
this is not fulfilling the promise of the gospel but adding to it.
The whole argument is like saying if you take your car to the car wash and it is clean, by claiming
it is clean is adding to the effect of the car wash and denying the car wash washes the car clean.
This is clearly absurd, the reason you wash the car is to have a clean car, and a clean car proves
the car wash works. The opposite is also true, if you fail to be cleaned by the car wash, either
the car wash has failed or you did not actually go.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
1 Cor 10:12-13
Now if we are fallen, walking continually in sin, unresolved there is no standing firm.
And temptation is not something we resist, because we just accept we are compromised.
So this passage assumes we are standing firm in righteousness and love.
Halleluyah.
Ok guys, if the argument about a car wash is so useless and empty, why do you
even need to comment on it?
Your behaviour indicates it is 100% correct.
Jesus cleanses us and places us in the Holy of Holies. We are holy and undefiled.
Now if there is something in your behaviour and heart that defiles you, I suggest you
seek to resolve this.
Now my friends I am not perfect or have reached my goal, but I press on towards it.
Now those who condemn my sharing or ideas obviously neither believe you can be Holy,
or it is a valid objective in Christ.
Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.” Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky as you hold firmly to the word of life.
Phil 2:14-16
Now if ones heart is set against this, the words will mean nothing to you.
It is one irony I have come to realise. In scripture you see what you want
to see, and until you heart is in tune with it, it remains closed and different
but one does not know why.
Much of scripture does not work well with a concordance, but rather reading and
dwelling on its words so they soak into your soul. I recommend you all do this,
and Gods truth will become plain to you, as Gods word remolds our heart into the
likeness of Christ, amen.
even need to comment on it?
Your behaviour indicates it is 100% correct.
Jesus cleanses us and places us in the Holy of Holies. We are holy and undefiled.
Now if there is something in your behaviour and heart that defiles you, I suggest you
seek to resolve this.
Now my friends I am not perfect or have reached my goal, but I press on towards it.
Now those who condemn my sharing or ideas obviously neither believe you can be Holy,
or it is a valid objective in Christ.
Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.” Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky as you hold firmly to the word of life.
Phil 2:14-16
Now if ones heart is set against this, the words will mean nothing to you.
It is one irony I have come to realise. In scripture you see what you want
to see, and until you heart is in tune with it, it remains closed and different
but one does not know why.
Much of scripture does not work well with a concordance, but rather reading and
dwelling on its words so they soak into your soul. I recommend you all do this,
and Gods truth will become plain to you, as Gods word remolds our heart into the
likeness of Christ, amen.
Every time someone posts James 2:20 by itself to try to make it look like we have to do works in order to remain saved - I will post about faith and works and salvation in Christ's finished work.
I am not ashamed of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ for in "it" is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes. In "it" the righteousness of God is revealed!
We have a great salvation in Christ. In Him we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins. Repent and believe in the gospel just like Jesus said in Mark 1:15
I am not ashamed of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ for in "it" is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes. In "it" the righteousness of God is revealed!
We have a great salvation in Christ. In Him we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins. Repent and believe in the gospel just like Jesus said in Mark 1:15
Brethren - we are not redeemed until our next failure. The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.
We have eternal redemption because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.
Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
We have = present tense - present tense is always present tense. When tomorrow comes - it will be present tense then too.
Does this make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No! Of course not - why?
Because "knowing this truth" releases the grace of God in our lives to operate to produce His life in and through us. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."
It's time to "repent and believe the gospel" like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 After all it is not called the "good news" for no reason.
We have a great and wondrous salvation but it is all in Christ and what He has already done. We receive this all by grace through faith. As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him in like manner.
We have eternal redemption because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.
Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
We have = present tense - present tense is always present tense. When tomorrow comes - it will be present tense then too.
Does this make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No! Of course not - why?
Because "knowing this truth" releases the grace of God in our lives to operate to produce His life in and through us. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."
It's time to "repent and believe the gospel" like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 After all it is not called the "good news" for no reason.
We have a great and wondrous salvation but it is all in Christ and what He has already done. We receive this all by grace through faith. As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him in like manner.
Saving faith is not void of works, yet we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works. That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.
In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. *This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete, just like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works when he offered up Isaac on the altar. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous" not accounted as righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, life in faith is the source of the works. Those who teach salvation by works put the cart before the horse.
In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works. That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.
In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. *This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete, just like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works when he offered up Isaac on the altar. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous" not accounted as righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, life in faith is the source of the works. Those who teach salvation by works put the cart before the horse.
In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*