I believe that God allows us to make choices and at the same time, God has ordained certain things to occur.
An Introduction to the Doctrines of Grace: Unconditional Election
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I believe that God allows us to make choices and at the same time, God has ordained certain things to occur.
Good, you don't believe God doesn't know the future, you don't deny God's omnscience, that's what open theism does.
Can you give Scripture for God's omniscience? And please don't give Isaiah 46:10. That does not explain God's omniscience.
For instance, God told Jonah to preach the message to Nineveh, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." In forty days did God destroy Nineveh? Why not? Nineveh repented so in turn, God repented. God responded based on Nineveh's response to His word.
Forgive me but when people simply leave a name and number instead of scripture it's a pet peeve of mine, so here's the scripture you cited in order, so anyone lurking can read it more easily.
1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 9:
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth);
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
Matthew 24:
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
...
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Deuteronomy 7:
7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Matthew 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Romans 8:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 16:13
Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Luke 10:20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
John 17:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
...
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
...
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
...
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Amos 3:2
You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities
2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1 Peter 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed
Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
John 12:
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Deuteronomy 2:30
But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the Lord thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
Joshua 11:20
For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses.
1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 9:
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth);
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
Matthew 24:
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
...
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Deuteronomy 7:
7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Matthew 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Romans 8:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 16:13
Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Luke 10:20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
John 17:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
...
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
...
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
...
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Amos 3:2
You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities
2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1 Peter 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed
Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
John 12:
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Deuteronomy 2:30
But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the Lord thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
Joshua 11:20
For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses.
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Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Matthew 21:
18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
Only God really knows why some people seem to be rejected. However, I believe that God experiences time in a non-linear way, simultaneously and when people don't bring forth fruits, it is displeasing.
There are after all many references to plants, and their fruit. When you are gardening, you root up the weeds, you don't leave them next to your flowers. Wheat, tares, etc.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Matthew 21:
18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
Only God really knows why some people seem to be rejected. However, I believe that God experiences time in a non-linear way, simultaneously and when people don't bring forth fruits, it is displeasing.
There are after all many references to plants, and their fruit. When you are gardening, you root up the weeds, you don't leave them next to your flowers. Wheat, tares, etc.
zen,
the word 'lurking' is very detrimental and so very unkind to those who come here
to learn but are not led to post - please find a kind word for those of us who love
so many here and enjoy and glean wisdom from their words, even if some do not...
why you would use such a word is definitely not a good choice...
the word 'lurking' is very detrimental and so very unkind to those who come here
to learn but are not led to post - please find a kind word for those of us who love
so many here and enjoy and glean wisdom from their words, even if some do not...
why you would use such a word is definitely not a good choice...
As I mentioned this guy is a bit on the hyper side and that we need to search the Scriptures to see if what he is saying is true or not. As far as II Peter 3:9, look at John 3:18-20 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
The Lord does not elect anyone for hell, they go there of their own doing. The Lord has to do something so that man can be saved, Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, The Lord will not hear. Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear. John 9:31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. Probers 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.
God does not hear the sinner, if He does not hear the sinner how can a sinner repent? “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 Once a sinner is born again they can see the kingdom and repent. Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward mankind appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of rebirth and the renewal of the Holy Spirit,6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, being justified by His grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. MEV
He saves us it is not by any righteous thing we do, because we can do nothing to please God in the flesh our sinful nature. Romans 8:7-8 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Here are some other translations of II Peter 3:9 ESV "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." HCSB "The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance." MEV "The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness. But He is patient with us, because He does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance."
Not willing, does not want, wishing are totally different than, "of the purpose of His will" So we see through the Scriptures that as sinful men we cannot see the kingdom, God does not hear the sinners prayers, we are hostile toward God and cannot please Him. It is by His mercy/grace that we are saved.
That was why I posted a thread on the sovereignty of God before total depravity, then unconditional election, because if you do not understand God's sovereignty and total depravity you will not understand why the Lord must elect sinners to salvation.
If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
II Timothy 2:24-26 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
If you have the truth it is your duty as a Christian to show us the truth, that God may grant us repentance, so bring the Scriptures instead of just babbling.
Though there are some good points in your post I'd like to share this scripture with you about this.
Luke 18
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
His heart/eyes were opened by the Lord or as one of the elect of the Lord, like Peter's was in Matthew 16:16. There is one other thing that we need to remember, that the children of Israel are Abraham's offspring, here the tax collector is showing that he is one of Abraham's offspring of the promise, not just according to the flesh. Also remember that these are parables and they had two purposes, one, His people understood them, where unbelievers did not.
Matthew 13:11 He answered them, “It is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Ephesians 1:15-21 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
He hates this teaching because it dethrones man and enthrones God. They can't have God setting where they want to.
Isn't that the blindness of all that believe they save themselves? They as Dr. White said "have compressed it down to if God is sovereign we are all puppets". When that is not what Calvinism or the Bible teaches.
So when they read the Scriptures that support the Doctrines of Grace they view it in a puppet setting, which is not the reality of the Bible. They make statements like "those that believe chose to believe" but do not give Scriptural support. Oh but they will love the heretic in the WoF movement because we need to love one another. What about Reformed or Calvinists, they are false and we need not believe them, it does not matter how many Scriptures they post supporting their view, they are false and that is all there is for them, they believe a false doctrine. They will not love the Reformed or Calvinist believer because they believe the lie, it's false doctrine.
And Brother, I did not mean to be rude to you, but I just stated the truth. This post had nary a scripture posted in it, just your refusal to accept this biblical truth.
Noah found grace in the sight of God when it was said The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.[Genesis 6:5] Now, it does state that Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God.[Genesis 6:9] Now, he did find favor in God's sight, but it was not because of anything he did. If God had favor upon Noah based upon what he did or was doing, then it would have been no longer grace, but debt. In other words, if God's favor was upon Noah because he did something, then God owed him that favor, that grace. Yet, out of all the world, God chose Noah and his wife, his three sons and their wives, and utterly destroyed the rest. That's unconditional election at its finest.
Then God goes to Abram in the land of Ur and chooses him to be the father of many nations. It was through him and his descendants that the promises of God were given to. He left the other nations in their already fallen condition, left them to worship other gods, and gave the promise to Abraham and his descendants.
In Galatians 3, I was reading this today Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.[Galatians 3:7-9] So, we Gentiles, have the same promises that God gave to Abraham back centuries ago.
God chose Israel over all other nations in the OT and left the rest to their already fallen state. He left them no sacrificial system whereby they could have an atonement for their sins. Yes, some from other nations believed and became proselyte Jews. But they had limitations on where they could and could not go in the temple. Not so now. All believers have access to God through the Christ.
But God has always been a particular God to a particular ppl.
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When ppl fail to grasp the depravity of man in his fallen state, that he is a spiritual corpse, they will never grasp the DoG.
Have you noticed that most not all, only offer their opinion with no Scriptural bases to what they believe. It boils down to Reformed/Calvinist teaching is false and I don't care what the Bible says, it is false. They have one liners and half verses quoted, but they will never engage in a Scriptural discussion about the Biblical doctrines of the Bible.
I remember the days that I used to hold to that type of non-sense, I never read the Scriptural argument with an opened mind, it had already been shut by the pastors I has, as to that Calvinist stuff will kill you. Really, that is the wrong thing to say to someone that wants to know the truth at the expense of not believing what was taught to me. My pastors used to get upset with me because I would engage with JW's and mormon's when we would do outreaches, they used to say they are going to confuse you. I would how if you are teaching me the truth how can a false doctrine confuse me?
When you make a point about not everybody hearing the gospel before dying, they do turn to Romans 1. Sadly, that speaks to man's ruined state outside of the Christ, and in no way supports what they think it does.
But most go ad hominem when they run out of arguments.
There's a reason why some were chosen and some were not chosen.
There's a condition why some were chosen and some were not chosen.
I see a tension here in Calvinism. If God only chose a few... specifically, then there is a condition for those few being chosen.
There's a condition why some were chosen and some were not chosen.
I see a tension here in Calvinism. If God only chose a few... specifically, then there is a condition for those few being chosen.