Abiding......then the Fruit

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reneweddaybyday

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#21
Mar 23, 2016
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#21
Chris1975 said:
See verse 6.
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6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.


Verse 2 speaks of the kléma (branch in the Vine).

Verse 4 speaks of the kléma (branch in the Vine).

Verse 5 speaks of the klēmata (branches in the Vine).

Verse 6 speaks of tis (someone, anyone) who is not a branch in the Vine.


Notice verse 6 does not say "If a branch does not abide in Me ... ".


Verse 6 is no longer speaking of branches, but is speaking of all men and women who do not abide in the Vine. Some may come to faith and abide in the Vine over the course of his/her life. Some may not. And those who do not will find him/herself withered ... gathered together ... thrown into the fire. Sad, but true.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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#22
UnderGrace said:
Jesus spoke within contexts that people could understand at that time and with some research we can understand the analogies that He used.

It is true that branches are lifted up, I watched my father do this many times as a child, when we grew grapes or other fruits.

Jesus is indicating what actually occurred during the Spring, certain non-fruiting branches were "lifted up": (to keep them from touching the ground and setting roots) and tied to trellises along with the fruiting branches while the side shoots of the fruiting branches were being "cleaned up."

The non-fruiting branches were allowed to grow with full vigor and without the removal of any side growth or leaves since the more extensive their growth the greater diameter of their stem where it connected to the vine and thus the greater ability for the flow of nutrients from the roots to the branches which would produce more fruit the following season.

By removing them from the ground and placing them on the trellis the rows of plants would benefit from unhindered aeration which is considered to be an essential element to proper fruit development.

To see airei as removal (judgment or discipline) is to contradict the actual practice of the time.
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I love that you pointed out why the branches are lifted up. It really helps in understanding this whole section in John 15. It is good to understand the agricultural background which these verses encompass so we can understand about lifting the branches so they do not take root, and the stem growing thick to allow for the flow of nutrients from the root. :cool:
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

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#23
Folks that believe greasy grace prove their rebelliousness by rebelling from tried-and-true commentaries, lexicons, & multiple Bible translations.

When the God says He would send them strong delusion, He wasn't kidding.
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

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#24
reneweddaybyday said:
I clicked on the link to the footnote (highlighted in red above), and the footnote indicates that the words translated "takes away" should read "lifts up".The words "He takes away" are translated from the Greek word airó which means to raise, lift up.The Father, as Vinedresser, tenderly cares for all branches in the Vine. And those branches which need a little extra support in order to bear fruit, the Vinedresser lifts up and provides what is needed in the life of the branch in order to bring forth that fruit.The Vine provides the sap which runs through the branch and the Vine produces the fruit which the branch holds out for all to see and partake of.The One Who kept His Father's commandments and Who remained in the Father's love is the same One who lives in the born again one. And He is the One Who walks with us, strengthens us, provides what is needed to meet every obstacle we will face in this life. He is with us in the struggle; He is with us in the calm; He is with us in the joy; He is with us in those moments when we feel as if we stand alone in an ocean of unbelief.And, by the way, the commandment Jesus Christ tells us to keep in found in verse 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.Inasmuch as it is the Vine Who produces within the branch this love wherewith the branches are to love one another, how can we not keep His commandments? The Vine gives us the means; the Father provides us the support and protection we need in order to love one another. We abide in the love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. How difficult is it to hold out that love which flows from Jesus (the Vine) into us (the branch)?
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Hi Renewed,


Think of it like when the branches were broken off because of unbelief.


So those also who don't abide in the vine are those who don't believe. They don't have a genuine faith. They're the same as the tares that look like wheat, but are not and are reserved for the fire at the Lord's return.


Those who don't abide are those with the bad soil and don't continue in the faith because there faith is not genuine.


Verse 6 helps to explain verse 2.


John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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Nov 22, 2015
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#25
I like to use this website from time to time as it looks at scripture through the finished work of Christ that is the true gospel message. It also has a place at the bottom where people have asked questions and I often learn dome great things there too.

Abiding in the Vine:

A promise, not a condition

 Jesus told the disciples, you are in me (our imperfections are hidden in His perfection) and I am in you (we carry His sinless DNA). Jesus didn’t sin and He won’t ever sin. If you let Him live His life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and acting just like sinless Jesus. This is a glorious promise for all who believe:

“Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 Jn 3:9)

So what does it mean to abide in the vine? Here’s the answer we’ve all been waiting for…

“Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” (1 Jn 4:15)

Have you confessed that Jesus is the Son of God? Then God abides in you and you in Him. You may wonder, But how did this happen? All I did was confess. Well you could not have believed and confessed Jesus as Lord unless the Holy Spirit had led you to do so (1 Cor 12:3). The work and the glory are all His. Rest in that!

The trouble is, you can’t rest because somewhere inside there is a little voice that’s asking, Can I abide today and not abide tomorrow? Can I be in the vine one moment and cut off the next? Why would Jesus tell his disciples to abide if there wasn’t any danger of not abiding?

The problem, as usual, is found between our ears. Most of us have grown up with a slave mentality that says our value is determined by what we do. This was certainly true of the disciples who had been born and bred under the law. They were conditioned to think in terms of their performance. This works mindset is also evident in some of our English translations:

“Remain in me, and I will remain in you.” (Jn 15:4, NIV)

Again, that sounds like a condition. It sounds like Jesus is saying, if your abiding performance is up to scratch, then I will reward you by abiding as well. But it is not a condition to make us sweat; it is a promise to make us rest.

In John 15 Jesus goes to great lengths to counter the law-mentality of the disciples. He does this by hitting them with promise after promise:

“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.” (Jn 15:9)

How does the Father love Jesus? Ask yourself this question: How many miracles or works had Jesus done when the Father declared from heaven, “this is my beloved Son?” None!

The Father loves Jesus unconditionally, without any reference to His performance or fruit. That means that Jesus loves us unconditionally! He wants us to rest in His unconditional love.

You’re free? Be free!

Just to recap – if you think abiding is something we must do, then understand that the evidence of abiding is zero sin. This is humanly impossible.

The only logical response to the command “abide!” is to trust in Jesus and His performance and quit trying to impress Him with yours. The word “abide” connotes “rest” and “surrender,” not “struggle” and “try harder.”

Trust God, the abiding issue is all settled from His side. “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him.” But it may not be settled from your side. You may still be struggling with that old servant mentality.

Instead of rest there is insecurity. Instead of joy there is anxiety. Am I in? Can I be cut off? If this is you, let Jesus speak to your insecurity:

“I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (Jn 8:34-36)

 The reality is, you are free indeed because Jesus has set you free. The reality is, you are abiding in the vine because you have confessed Him as Lord. But you may not be experiencing that reality.

You may feel like you’re not free or you’re not abiding. Although you are a son with a permanent place in the family, you may still think and act like the slave that you used to be. There’s only one solution: renew your mind! Stop living by feelings and start walking by faith. You are abiding in fact, so start abiding in practice.

When Jesus said, “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast out as a branch, withers, and is thrown into the fire,” He was not referring to fruitless Christians. (They are lifted up.) He was describing those who refuse to believe to that He is the Son of God. He was describing those who are looking for life outside of the true vine.

 If you have confessed Jesus as your Lord, then walk in that the truth: You are free, God Himself abides in you, and as a son or daughter you have a permanent place in His family.

Thank you Jesus!

Here is a link for the article . There is a lot more in the article and there are comments at the bottom where people have asked questions. I like to use this website as it tackles the scriptures with grace-based teachings on the finished work of Christ.

Here is the link below if anyone is interested in the questions.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/...e-in-the-vine/
 
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reneweddaybyday

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Mar 23, 2016
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#26
Desertsrose said:
Hi Renewed,

Think of it like when the branches were broken off because of unbelief.
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John 15:2 speaks of those who are in Christ Jesus. Only true believers can abide in the Vine. Unbelievers cannot abide in the Vine.

John 15:2 Every branch in me ...
Desertsrose said:
So those also who don't abide in the vine are those who don't believe. They don't have a genuine faith. They're the same as the tares that look like wheat, but are not and are reserved for the fire at the Lord's return.
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Here you speak of those who are not believers and never were believers. And I believe John 15:6 refers to these people.

However, John 15:2 is speaking of believers who abide in the Vine but who do not bear fruit.


I believe there are times in a believer's life where we are abiding in the Vine but there is little to no fruit evidenced in our lives. And this is not due to unbelief but rather to circumstances we find ourselves in over the course of our lives.


There have been circumstances in my life where it was all I could to do just get out of bed in the morning, much less function in any meaningful manner. I needed support. I needed lifting up. I needed the loving, caring Hand of the Husbandman to airó (lift) me up. And He did and will continue to do so. And the Vine was and is so good to me. These periods only lasted for a season, but both Vinedresser and Vine were faithful. To this day, both Vinedresser and Vine provide the support I need to get through those difficult and trying times.


I'm sure we all have those times where we can relate to not having "fruit" evidenced in our lives and I'm sure we all rely on Father (as Husbandman) and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (as Vine) to continue to provide that which is needed to help us.


I sure do hope and pray you do not expect to be cut off, taken way, and thrown in the fire when you are going through the trials and difficulties of this life. Because the Vinedresser and Vine do not do that to the branch who is in Christ Jesus our Lord (abiding in the Vine), even if that branch appears to have no fruit for a season.




Desertsrose said:
Those who don't abide are those with the bad soil and don't continue in the faith because there faith is not genuine.

Verse 6 helps to explain verse 2

John 15:6. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
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Verse 6 relates to unbelievers. Those who never believed.


Verse 2 relates to believers who abide in the Vine. Please note the words in me in verse 2. Unbelievers cannot be "in" the Lord Jesus Christ. Only believers can be "in" the Lord Jesus Christ.


And as I have stated, I believe there are times in the life of the believer where he/she is abiding in the Vine but there is little to no "fruit" evidenced. During those times, the Father supports that little branch so that it can be made strong and vibrant that it may bring forth more fruit (meaning that at one point the believer did have fruit in his/her life).
 
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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Another reason for lifting up the branches is to place them where they can get more light. Speaks doesn't it?

In Hebrew the word is NASA. Spellcheck capitalized it. Lift.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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Mar 23, 2016
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#28
stonesoffire said:
Another reason for lifting up the branches is to place them where they can get more light. Speaks doesn't it?
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Good point. We all need light.



stonesoffire said:
In Hebrew the word is NASA. Spellcheck capitalized it. Lift.
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had to look at one up. nasa' :cool:

wonder if the folks as NASA knew that when they came up with their acronym???
 
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seed_time_harvest

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Dec 9, 2011
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Chris1975 said:
A person who lives in willful sin will also be cast into the lake of fire. Those born of God won't live in continual willful sin.

1 John 3v9 [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
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So then you are saying that a person that Is saved,won't live In continual willful sin and a person who Isn't saved will live In continual wilful sin?

If that were true,no one would make It In.

We all do things that would be continual wilful sin.Did you know that gluttony Is a work of the flesh and a person gains weight from
over-eating.

IE
A person will only gain a pound or so If they eat one meal and gorge themselves but In order to gain maybe 50 lbs a person has got to over eat continually,Is that considered wilful.

We all do something that would be considered wilful sin.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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Apr 27, 2017
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#30
seed_time_harvest said:
So then you are saying that a person that Is saved,won't live In continual willful sin and a person who Isn't saved will live In continual wilful sin?

If that were true,no one would make It In.

We all do things that would be continual wilful sin.Did you know that gluttony Is a work of the flesh and a person gains weight from
over-eating.

IE
A person will only gain a pound or so If they eat one meal and gorge themselves but In order to gain maybe 50 lbs a person has got to over eat continually,Is that considered wilful.

We all do something that would be considered wilful sin.
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You are not arguing with me. You argue with what is plainly written in the scriptures. Take your question to God in prayer.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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reneweddaybyday said:

Good point. We all need light.




had to look at one up. nasa' :cool:

wonder if the folks as NASA knew that when they came up with their acronym???
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The National Aeronautics and Space Administration spells out the Hebrew to mean lift off...doesn't sound accidental to me. This is what I love about words. Especially the Hebrew language.
 
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Skinski7

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Nov 26, 2011
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seed_time_harvest said:
So then you are saying that a person that Is saved,won't live In continual willful sin and a person who Isn't saved will live In continual wilful sin?

If that were true,no one would make It In.

We all do things that would be continual wilful sin.Did you know that gluttony Is a work of the flesh and a person gains weight from
over-eating.

IE
A person will only gain a pound or so If they eat one meal and gorge themselves but In order to gain maybe 50 lbs a person has got to over eat continually,Is that considered wilful.

We all do something that would be considered wilful sin.
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Speak for yourself.

The reason you continue to willfully sin is because you CHOOSE to.

Paul wrote...

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

You obviously choose not to take the way of escape.

Those that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the passions and desires (Gal 5:24). A glutton has obviously not done that, nor anyone else still in bondage to sin having never escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2Pet 1:4).

It doesn't have to be that way though. You can put off the old man in repentance and stop serving sin. Simply obey the doctrine of Christ from the heart and you can be set free from sin.

That is what the Bible plainly teaches and it is the truth.
 
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Skinski7

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How to Overcome Sin

[video=youtube;2I-pC56IPaA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I-pC56IPaA[/video]
 
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